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I've been paying attention to the number of people viewing each of these forums for a while now:1st place: Lincoln (a strong 1st)2nd place: Miller3rd place: Harbor Freight (nipping at the heels of Miller)4th place: Hobart (a distant 4th)Three things stick out to me:1) This order stays consistent. While forum viewers obviously goes up and down throughout the day, the order of these 4 stay pretty consistent. I would think this is an strong indicator of market share.2) Harbor Freight is commanding a larger a larger share of the market in many industries,,,not just welding. This bothers me as someone who supports American companies whenever possible. Cheap labor is forcing Americans to work cheaper and cheaper and consequently reduce our standard of living...and that ultimately includes ALL or us by the way. It breaks my heart to see this happening 3) Has Hobart always been the "dark horse" of the Big 3? Or perhaps collateral damage due to America's increased support of Harbor Freight brands?Perhaps I'm extrapolating a bit here but at the same time I believe forum viewership and their corresponding rank is telling. Thoughts?Lincoln Idealarc 250-250Lincoln AC-225
Reply:Originally Posted by Recruit3rd place: Harbor Freight (nipping at the heels of Miller)4th place: Hobart (a distant 4th)
Reply:I think you are extrapolating too much and you are forgetting that Hobart is essentially the same company as Miller (both divisions of ITW).Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:We are in a global economy.Eventually, water will seek its own level, and that doesn't mean the rest of the world will soon be making the money we are making.It would be quite a challenge to buy only American these days.Last edited by geezerbill; 03-02-2015 at 12:10 PM.Hobart Beta-Mig 2511972 Miller AEAD-200LEMiller 250 TwinNorthern Ind. Hybrid 200Longevity Stick 140Longevity Migweld 200SThermal Arc Pak 3XR
Reply:I think somebody needs a hobby.Miller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221 True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:I don't hobart is a distant 4th. The handler 140 and 210 are probably the most popular mig welders out there. Probably the best in its class in my opinionTorchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by RecruitI've been paying attention to the number of people viewing each of these forums for a while now:1st place: Lincoln (a strong 1st)2nd place: Miller3rd place: Harbor Freight (nipping at the heels of Miller)4th place: Hobart (a distant 4th)Three things stick out to me:1) This order stays consistent. While forum viewers obviously goes up and down throughout the day, the order of these 4 stay pretty consistent. I would think this is an strong indicator of market share.2) Harbor Freight is commanding a larger a larger share of the market in many industries,,,not just welding. This bothers me as someone who supports American companies whenever possible. Cheap labor is forcing Americans to work cheaper and cheaper and consequently reduce our standard of living...and that ultimately includes ALL or us by the way. It breaks my heart to see this happening 3) Has Hobart always been the "dark horse" of the Big 3? Or perhaps collateral damage due to America's increased support of Harbor Freight brands?Perhaps I'm extrapolating a bit here but at the same time I believe forum viewership and their corresponding rank is telling. Thoughts?
Reply:My guess at why the HF forum is so busy is that there are soooo many that bought one of their "welders" and are trying to find someone that can help them make it weld.
Reply:I can't think of a way to produce a report, but what you really want to do is search through peoples signatures for what products they have listed there.Century buzzbox that I learned on 40+ years ago (was Dad's)Crappy Century 110volt mig 70 amp pigeon pooper.Lincoln Idealarc TIG-300
Reply:Originally Posted by vwguy3My guess at why the HF forum is so busy is that there are soooo many that bought one of their "welders" and are trying to find someone that can help them make it weld.
Reply:It's really hard to draw valid conclusions from these stats. While it's a valid observation, the interpretation has to take into account the reason that people are on the forum. I can think of several reasons;A person is having problems with his machine.A person is looking for information before buyingA person is new to welding and looking for general information.A person is sharing their new purchase. Just using those motivations, one can decide that Lincoln is the most popular, or that it's the most troublesome, or that it's the best known.Dan----------------------------Measure twice. Weld once. Grind to size.MIG: Lincoln SP100 TIG/STICK: AHP Alphatig 200X
Reply:By using the flawed logic here, then in reality Hobart is the leader not the last!Yes, they are so trouble free and easy to operate reliably that so few people post about them!
Reply:What ticks me off is Harbor Freight gets a free forum. ESAB had to pay for their even though they are not actively promoting or selling their product like Everlast and LigevityVictor Technologies doesn't even have a showing.Last edited by soutthpaw; 03-02-2015 at 02:55 PM.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Recruit "Correlation does not imply Causation."Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveRecruit "Correlation does not imply Causation."
Reply:Originally Posted by vwguy3My guess at why the HF forum is so busy is that there are soooo many that bought one of their "welders" and are trying to find someone that can help them make it weld.
Reply:Judging by what I've read here the HF and Chinese welders seem to be a crapshoot as to reliability. Some buy them and they last for yrs and others life is sometimes measured in days or months. At least w/ HF you can buy the extended warranty and get a no hassle exchange right at the store. MikeOl' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I reviewed the MILLER site and it appears MILLER is really #1 http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ng-Discussions
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveRecruit "Correlation does not imply Causation."
Reply:I've never been on any of those, so that screws your whole analogy.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWIn some ways this is true about Lincoln's as well. I don't know how many repair/rebuild threads there are on here about old SA 200's and so on, but I'd bet there are several each week. Nothing wrong about that. It's a great machine and we have a good resource of members who are very familiar with these units.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyLooking into my crystal ball I don't see any threads about rehabbing a 60 or 70 year old HF machine.
Reply:Originally Posted by vwguy3My guess at why the HF forum is so busy is that there are soooo many that bought one of their "welders" and are trying to find someone that can help them make it weld.
Reply:HF stands for high frequency. The parent company of Esab now owns Victor technologies. It's sad that when Thermal Arc bought out the rights to some of the Hobart machines they didn't keep them in production. Hobart used to make some of the best machines on the market. I think more competition is a good thing. Not necessarily when buying because it can be hard to pick the best machine but it pushes everyone to make a better product. Pretty soon there will only be about 3 companies supplying all the welding equipment.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveHF stands for high frequency. The parent company of Esab now owns Victor technologies. It's sad that when Thermal Arc bought out the rights to some of the Hobart machines they didn't keep them in production. Hobart used to make some of the best machines on the market. I think more competition is a good thing. Not necessarily when buying because it can be hard to pick the best machine but it pushes everyone to make a better product. Pretty soon there will only be about 3 companies supplying all the welding equipment.It could stand for holy **** why would anyone buy that.
Reply:When I took an economics class, one of the lessons dealt with the reason that we talk of "the big 3" in so many areas.In essence, every market will be dominated by a few big players. Eventually mergers and buyouts will reduce their numbers to 3 or 4 major players and a handful of small specialty providers. Under US anti-trust laws, mergers are not allowed once a company reaches a point where the merger will control 75% of the market.In our world, Miller, Lincoln and Esab and maybe a few others have established market dominance. When they buy out a competitor it is just as likely to be to squelch competition as it is to acquire technology or sales channels. Hobart had no great technology, so Bye-Bye. Conversely, in every market there will be small companies that shake up the status quo. They introduce innovation, low price or both and eventually get bought or manage to buy one of the established companies. It will be interesting to see who is on top in 10 years.Dan----------------------------Measure twice. Weld once. Grind to size.MIG: Lincoln SP100 TIG/STICK: AHP Alphatig 200X
Reply:Thanks for the input guys. I overthink too many things.It is interesting that Miller and Hobart are owned by the same company (Illinois Tool Works). Apparently appealing to different markets (Hobart less expensive and Miller more expensive). Hopefully, demand remains strong for both down the road.Lincoln Idealarc 250-250Lincoln AC-225
Reply:Maybe it is a rise of garage welders similar to the number of people that used to have a lathe or mill in their garage back in the day. People buy cheap to try it out and later buy a better welder.
Reply:Does anything from harbor freight ever work? 90% of the junk I have bought from there breaks shortly after. I had one of their flux core 110 welders that took me forever to figure out why it wouldn't weld, I took out the wire that came with it and put in Firepower wire from oreilly auto parts and it has worked for over 5 years without problems except when firepower switched over to china wire. Now I use hobart wire from tractor supply and it works fine again. Just got a miller 252 so it doesn't look like a 12 year old welded it.harbor freight mechanic stethoscope - worked until i touched it to something.Harbor freight snap ring pliers set - two uses and bent almost everyone in the set.harbor freight tap and dies - lasted 2 minutes trying to CLEAN threads. I feel like I could have bit one of there taps in half with my teeth.harbor freight parts cleaner - pump lasted a couple hours.harbor freight air hose on reel- reel is great, after 2 months hose disintegrates, replaced with snap-on 6 months ago.harbor freight air hose quick connect - leaks after 2 days. Thats all I can think of off the top of my head, my press I use for wheel bearings has lasted for a couple years with no problems but I guess its hard to mess up building a metal fram with a jack on it.
Reply:I've had good luck with HF stuff. Their little dc 110v stick welder is awesome. I have a lathe from them (older green model) and it's good, the newer red ones are good too. I have the belt/disc sander which I love. Hasn't skipped a beat and I abuse it. The angle grinders, I have 3 of them $10 each and I literally beat the crap out of them. Was only able to break one. Their little $30 hand brake has paid for itself many times over. If it broke tomorrow I wouldn't be mad I would go buy another one without a doubt. Their powder coating gun works surprisingly well. I bought their colored sockets years ago, and have yet to break one. Honestly I think I have very little complaints about their stuff.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:I expect harbor freight tools to work for one small job. If I'm going to need it more than that I will buy a better tool. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:42:12