Need Advice on bending brass for sculpture

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I am new to this forum and I hope that I am posting this in the right section.I need some advice on the following. I have a bunch of old keys that I have gathered over the years and I would like to know how to bend them and mold them around objects to make sculptures similar to the sculptures located here www.etsy.com/au/shop/MoerkeyI'm just stuck on a few things though, I'm  not sure as to how this person bends the brass keys and coins so well? The sculptures look as if they have been molded around the objects perfectly as the case with the Balls, Wine bottle and the Mannequin.I have tried bending a couple of keys in a vice and with some pliers which might sound a little amateurish lol, but they came out alright, I really want to make sure that when I start this that i'm doing it right, Is there a better or simpler way I can bend the keys?I was thinking of heating the brass keys and trying to bend them but I'm not sure if the keys will bend/break?If this is possible and it works well how would I bend the keys so that I can have them so that they mold over objects?For example like the sculptures on the site the Wine bottles, Balls, Mannequins and bowls?Also I want to make them well and I want to know if I should use solder and if so what type of solder or if I should use something stronger? Any tips on making my soldering look clean?Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks heaps!
Reply:Most of that stuff the coins or keys are not bent. They are used as is. Think about a faceted 3D shape, like say dice. A 12 sided die starts to look round, but it's made up of all flat surfaces. Increase that to a 30 sided die, and the surface looks even more round, but the sides are all still flat..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Blacksmiths sometimes use swage blocks to pound metal into curved or odd shapes.  You might improvise one just to give keys a little curve.  Find a big bearing ball and a backer that has some curve. Some brass doesn't respond well to cold forming.  You could set keys on a hotplate and get them hot, or at least anneal them, before pounding.Last edited by Oldendum; 03-05-2015 at 11:37 AM."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Telekinesis
Reply:OK First things first.  Does the original poster have any practical knowledge of the processes needed or is this just another "I saw this and want to get rich selling these" post?ASSUMING the OP knows how to soft solder, from what I saw on the Moerkey etsy page I believe he is soft soldering the stuff together using a lead alloy solder.  Not any to neatly either.  I prefer a low alloy silver solder myself.  Silver solder requires more heat but the finish product is stronger and polishes nicer.  Yeah, I already got the AO torches and know how to use them.To anneal brass it has to be heated to red hot.  Average temp for annealing any of the copper based alloys is in the 975* F neighborhood.  That will require either a good annealing kiln or a torch of some sort.  I use a propane weed burner torch because it is cheaper that acetylene and my kiln to operate.  Cold bending the keys very far will crack them.  They are a hard alloy.  Annealing will be a necessity.  How to bend keys?  SHEESH!  A suitable shape object and a hammer.  I have collected all sizes and shapes of stuff to use as forming dies over the past 4 decades.  A hard wood stump anvil will work nicely as well.  Doming blocks are handy and allow for a consistent curve to the finished product.  As with any metalshaping the rule is "Beat it to fit, Paint it to match".Fixturing?  Again this a shop draw decision.  Given enough chin rubbing and butt scratching you will figure out something.  REMEMBER, keys are not always brass.  A lot of keys are aluminum or steel.  Some of the steel keys are brass plated.  A magnet will help sort those out.  You can still use the steel ones as the solder will work but the aluminum keys are pretty much scrap.RogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Originally Posted by Rog02....To anneal brass it has to be heated to red hot.  Average temp for annealing any of the copper based alloys is in the 975* F neighborhood...
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKaiIncorrect.  Having annealed lots of cartridge brass (C26000, 70% Cu - 30% Zn), can tell you first hand that if you heat it to RED HOT you smoke'd it and you're done.  Optimal temp/time for "yellow" brass is 670deg F for :15.  When we anneal 308/300WM/338LM cartridge brass (manually, semi-auto), we target 750 deg and use Tempilaq for QC. Sample of a semi -auto annealer ----> www.annealingmachines.com/model-400.htmlWhat copper alloys have you annealed?
Reply:@ Rog02 - yellow brass is NEVER water quenched after annealing.  Metallurgically, does nothing for the cartridges.  Post-annealed, the cartridges are air-cooled.  Annealing C26000 above 750deg F tends to makes the cartridge necks brittle and prone to fracture/splitting upon firing.What copper alloys have you spun/hammered/annealed?  Chemical constituents/composition?Last edited by ManoKai; 03-05-2015 at 02:29 PM.Reason: syntax"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Hammer Shaping time.  Would not be having a coat n sleeves anywhere near that spinning beeyotch."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Me neither...that guys done this more than a few times I'd say
Reply:I would use low temperature tin-lead solder to fasten them.It is possible that some of the keys are not brass; aluminum is harder to solder.The swage block works to creates shape, but you can take a stump and grind a depression in it and it will work as well, at least cold.  I suggest that you shape the metal cold.Brass comes in hundreds of different alloys; unless you know the alloy you cannot say that much about it's characteristics.Sculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge