Muriatic Acid

admin

Hello,Has anyone used Muriatic acid or Hydrochloric acid to clean out a rusty tank? I understand this is the best way to do it, essentially etching the steel. How much is required? The stuff I got doesn't have a percentage but it says 20 then a degree symbol. I am cleaning out an old 60 gallon compressor tank. I plan on dumping some in, rolling it around, dump it out and repeat. I only bought a gallon of the stuff to start. I was planning  to rinse out the tank with water after, then slosh some WD-40 around inside to drive out the moisture and protect the steel. Any thoughts?
Reply:I don’t think its too good of an idea. You obviously plain on using the tank. Rust has reduced the tanks wall thickness and you will be making the tank thinner. The acid cant choose to work on the rust and not attack the steel. I think it’s too risky, the tank may or may become too thin to be safe.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid
Reply:The degree symbol refers to "Baume", so it is 20 Baume Muriatic acid, which is also known as 32%.I will say, that simply dumping and a quick rinse, will not neutralize the acid.  After dumping, it could take MANY gallons of continuous rinsing, or better yet, neutralize with baking soda (then more rinsing).Not commenting on your tank cleaning idea though.  I'll leave that to someone else.
Reply:Okay, what will you be holding in the tank?? I'll say that rlitman is correct about cleaning procedure, you will need to neutralize the tank internals with a baking soda mix after cleaning. Any acids left that are on the walls in pores and such will be persistent. On clean, smooth metal, a good rinse will work.WD40 won't neutralize the acid very well, and it won't necessarily protect from acid continuing to do it's job.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:How bad is the inside of that tank??? When you turn the tank upside down and tap on it does alot heavy thick bits & pieces of rust come out of the tank? If so a simple fluid cleaning and rinsing will not work. You may have to try an interior sandblasting then doing a flush followed by your acid cleaning. Some sandblasting shops can do the  tank blasting. There is also water blasting.Last edited by specter; 01-07-2010 at 01:58 PM.Reason: typoCo-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:It is a compressor tank.I haven't taken all of the inspection plugs out yet to have a better look inside but the inside of the pipe going to the pressure switch is half full of fluffy rust.Neutralizing the acid is a good idea, I hadn't thought of that.I wasn't planning to leave the acid to work for long. You'll note in the wikipedia entry that mils etc use HCl to clean rust, "pickling steel"Wall thickness is an issue though. I should do what I can to confirm that the walls are still thick enough to do what they need to. I wonder how much a quick NDT would be or maybe a normal pressure vessel test.Gave a quick call to a pressure vessel guy and he suggested doing a hydrostatic test to 150% of operating pressure. He said this is the best because it isn't dangerous and you can probably just do it with a hand pump. Probably not a bad idea to do on an old tank like this even without using any acid!
Reply:Depending on the laws/rules/regulations in your locale, hydrostatically testing a pressure vessel might not only be a good idea, it might also be a requirement.  Depending on whether this is for commercial use or a home garage, depending on tank size vs rules, etc, etc, etc.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Yeah, it doesn't look like anyone around here could do it for me "officially". I will have another look and see if there is a boiler guy or something. At the mine I used to work at in BC we couldn't use Parker Hannifan accumulators on our equipment because they weren't tested the same way a boiler is! Talk about letter of the law, do you have any idea how many hydraulic accumulators there are in this world? We had to use bladder type accumulators because they had been tested.
Reply:As others said, it may not be safe to salvge this tank if the rust has thinned it too much.Regarding the acid techinque, I restored a badly rusted motorcycle tank by using phosporic acid and water, with several cups of pea sized gravel, and shook it like crazy many times, let it sit, and repeat.  Rinse with lots of water, dry with a shop vac blower, coat with Sea Foam.Phosphoric is the acid to use, it is the active ingredient in rust removal products like Naval Jelly, and it produces a protective layer of iron phosphate after removing the rust.  I suppose you could use HCl first and finish off with phosphoric.
Reply:In a Hazardous Waste yard where I worked for many years. The owner was a friend of mine, and suggested that I learn the plant from the ground up.My first lesson, I was taught to triple rinse. A black guy named Elija Boe, yelled at me one day. I was filing up containers contaminated with ammonium hydroxide solution, with fresh water, almost two thirds full, with water, to rinse them out. He snatched the drum away from me, and said "Man what the hell you are doing"? He said "you are going to fill up the rinse tank in a few minutes like that". And you won't get them cleaned. He said its math. You take the drum and put a little bit of water in it, shake it all around, it cuts the mix, to 1/100th the strength, then you dump that and do it two more times. So that the next time you rinse you get 1/10,000 strength solution left. And finally the third time you have it down to parts per million. Wow does it save time and energy and resources. I am not big on putting acids into a tank. They can lay under the gasoline in a gas tank and continue to work, like rust itself, rust generates hydrochloric acid. That is why it acts like a disease even to stainless steel. Most good compressor guys say get a new tank. It is like if your car is in a really bad accident and you twist the frame or uni-body. Most really good auto body guys will condemn the car for a friend. Even if they could straighten it out. It is just never the same. Rust can ARC and possibly cause you grief. So if you do use it make sure you only use synthetic compressor oil. It will not let the carbon build up in the check valve, like regular oil does.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Agreed, a 60 gallon tank wouldn't be all that expensive.  You can get one from Granger's or other places.If you pressure test it, make sure you get ALL of the air out of it and test with water.  After it's full, you can use a PortaPower pump, grease gun, etc. to build up the pressure.America Needs AMERICA'S Oil!!!"Global warming is the greatest scam in history ...There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril."--John Coleman, Founder of The Weather Channel
Reply:Originally Posted by salem747It is a compressor tank.I haven't taken all of the inspection plugs out yet to have a better look inside. . .
Reply:As stated above, hydrochloric acid will also eat the metal, not just the rust. A better solution is either the Phosphoric acid, or Oxalic acid which is also sold (at painting stores) as a wood bleach. The H3PO4 will leave a phosphate surface which later protects the surface, at least for a while. You could also try the electrolysis procedure, if you have an appropriate power supply. A thread here gives details; do a search for it.You need to first clean the inside well with something like Gunk to remove oils, otherwise the aqueous solutions don't work well; they won't penetrate an oil-rust crust.Have fun getting the inspection plugs off; sometimes they forget they really aren't part of the welded tank.
Reply:A pressure test is an absolute necessity, especially for a tank built in 1958 and known to be rusty.  I have used a local fire extinguisher service company to pressure test several salvaged air receivers I wanted to put to use.I'm not confident that 150% of working pressureis an adequate proof test.  I would recommend finding out what the required proof pressure is from the ASME Pressure Vessel code or the Canadian equivalent.  This, and the appropriate cleaning procedure, are not things to guess at.  A 60 gallon tank exploding at over 100 PSI will definitely blow the walls out of your shop and probably kill anybody nearby.awright
Reply:I haven't gotten the inspection plugs out yet, they are in there good but I did drain it and the water came out pretty clear so maybe it is less of a problem than I thought. I will check on the proof test value. I think I will just do it with an enerpac like the pressure vessel guy suggested but with the enerpac I can just borrow it from work and don't have to buy anything. I will fill the tank to the top with water, then pump it up to the proof test pressure with hydraulic oil. It will probably only take about 5ml of oil anyway and then I don't have to put water in the pump and have to clean it all out.
Reply:how about a cheap grease gun filled with water???fred-- fredLincoln 180C MIG
Reply:I will fill the tank to the top with water, then pump it up to the proof test pressure with hydraulic oil. It will probably only take about 5ml of oil anyway and then I don't have to put water in the pump and have to clean it all out.
Reply:Water and oil under pressure is not a good idea either. You remember the oxygen tank regulator and oil contamination being a bad thing? Well, water is 8/1 oxygen by weight over hydrogen. They take out all the water from high pressure air before they compress it. For many reasons. Steam pipes blow, sometimes because of the sudden compression and condensation of high temperature steam gas. As the steam condenses very quickly it can liberate many thousands or millions of BTU's in an instant. Causing any trapped water to instantly turn to steam. You can get instant detonation. You can also cause water to detonate upon sudden compression. Water can also combine with carbon dioxide under pressure and cause the carbon dioxide to turn into carbon monoxide, while burning the hydrogen in the water. This is a common accident with water. Let an expert look at the tank. If he says its no good. I would listen to him. I will ask my friend if they de grease the compressor tank before testing.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:We're not combining oil and oxygen here, which will definitely burn.  We're combining oil and water.  Two different things.We're not doing this at an elevated temperature, either.  Nor are we combining it with carbon dioxide, which can form carbonic acid.And, yes, expect the tank volume to grow a LOT more than 5 ml.  Also, when you fill the tank with water, let it stand for a couple of hours and let the air entrained with it form bubbles.  Then, bang on the side and swirl a stick around in it to get the bubbles out.America Needs AMERICA'S Oil!!!"Global warming is the greatest scam in history ...There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril."--John Coleman, Founder of The Weather Channel
Reply:I think (but do not actually know) that part of the pressure proof test is measurement of the amount of expansion of the tank under test.  More than some specified amount of expansion indicates weakened walls and constitutes a failure of the proof test, even in the absence of bursting or leaking.  The amount of expansion is measured by the volume of water that overflows from the tank in which the tank under test is submerged.  I have no idea what the permissible expansion is or if my impression is even correct.  If correct, I imagine it is some fixed percentage of the volume of the tank under test.awright
Reply:awright,Yes, a hydro test does include a measure of the expansion of the pressure vessel under test.  The fail criteria vary depending on the test specs.    The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:I'm not afraid to pay to have it tested, but I have checked with the fire extinguisher place here and they can only do small tanks. I have read that the measure of expansion they use is basically to make sure that most of what you put in comes back out, therefore an elastic action, versus a permanent deformation => yield of the steel. Anyway I haven't given up trying to find someone to test it but the guy I got the original advice from builds pressure vessels so he would know what it takes.
Reply:I think that William McCormic Jr. needs to reread what he stated as facts in  Post 18 and maybe , deleting that BS.
Reply:If the water and oil become heated, by any means. Mechanical pump, an electrical ARC to the outside of the tank during testing. A cutting torch against the tank. A chemical reaction in the tank. Oil and water can detonate. An electrical charge to the water in the tank, could also cause detonation. When bearings in pumps go, and the pump overheats, while pumping contaminated, oil and water, it can burn the mix, with oxygen and acetylene like force. But I understand the years of testing tanks with water pressure, and the safety, of the tank fragments not leaving the body of water if it blows. Much like hydraulics. Air, hydraulic fluid, and water, can detonate. When air is suddenly compressed, by a mechanical movement of a cylinder. Causing amazing pressure and heat through condensation in a cylinder, you can detonate the water and oil in that cylinder. I would let someone that does that, do it.       Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:I was thinking to ask my LWS where they have bottles tested. It's likely that there is no one around here that does it though. I may have to go down to Toronto or Barrie.I hate to tell you this, William, but out here in the oilfield we separate oil from water all the time.  They are normally produced together.  Bottom hole temperatures can easily reach 200°, where both fluids are found together--naturally.Salem, try taking it to a place that sells propane/butane.America Needs AMERICA'S Oil!!!"Global warming is the greatest scam in history ...There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril."--John Coleman, Founder of The Weather Channel
Reply:Yeah, I am going to try both the propane place and the local welding place.
Reply:If you're the slightest bit worried about the tank...........buy a new one!Even if you neutralize the rust, it's eaten away at the inside already.  Just how much of the wall thickness is left????????  Ask yourself that questionNew tank might be half the price of your medical insurance premium.Don't mix your priorities.  Most folks go out and spend more money on DVD's than they spend on their safety.  Little purchases add up in a heartbeat, while the big ones make you go  Same amount of money either way.It might pressure test just great tomorrow, but how many cycles will it withstand??  Static testing is static testing, no consideration for duty cycles."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Do compressor tanks with heavy rust in one spot split with sudden rapture-like explosion?Or does a rust-weakened tank expand and contract with each compressor cycle, and then, as soon as the weakest rusted area can be breached, air bleeds out signaling the end. Anybody know of a rust-weakened tank that exploded from normal working pressure?By the time the splitting void in a failing small reservoir could reach an inch in size, the building-blowing energy potential would be depleted. And we all know that blowing a 1" air hose may be a noisy whipping nuisance, but it's not going to blow the building down.I could see in a situation where if somehow the control switch, high limit switch, and high pressure relief valve all failed, and the compressor had the capacity to reach the tanks burst pressure the tank could catastrophically  split; but that would be very unlikely scenario.With trucks, it's somewhat common for older or neglected air reservoirs to rust out, but I've never heard of one "spliting." One day the air pops through the weakest point and begins to leak out; usually it's a slow leak and  next trip to the shop the leak is noticed and the tank is replaced.I wonder if a testing facility would even have any standard test data for acceptable expansion of any given air compressor tank? They're each built so different, with welded brackets, mounts, feet etc that it would probably have to be a very expensive custom tailored test. Probably at a cost exceeding the tank's value.What about starting with a basic visual inspection for heavy pitting? Maybe with a camera if we want to get fussy. If the tanks shows heavy pitting it's replaced.Good Luck
Reply:"ForbiddenYou don't have permission to access /editpost.php on this server.Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request."WHAT?!?
Reply:denrep  Re: Muriatic Acid"ForbiddenYou don't have permission to access /editpost.php on this server.Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request."WHAT?!?
Reply:denrep says, "With trucks, it's somewhat common for older or neglected air reservoirs to rust out, but I've never heard of one "spliting."denrep, google "air tank explosions." You are giving very dangerous advice.awright
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2  Hey,  Denrep;   you should have posted a Screenshot, so I'd see what interesting stuff you're talking about!
Reply:I know of a CO2 tank which had been used with beverage dispensers and had apparently gotten soda water into it at some point. It was pressurized with a fair amount of the gas when a bowling alley closed; a person took it home and had it sitting around for some years, and one day, while it was still sitting in the same place, it suddenly began leaking near the bottom where a ring had rusted on the inside. I grant you that these tanks are heavier built, but the principle is similar. I also allow that is isn't impossible for an explosive rupture to happen under similar conditions, but I'd bet it's more rare than some people here think.
Reply:Originally Posted by steve45I hate to tell you this, William, but out here in the oilfield we separate oil from water all the time.  They are normally produced together.  Bottom hole temperatures can easily reach 200°, where both fluids are found together--naturally.Salem, try taking it to a place that sells propane/butane.
Reply:Alright, So I filled the tank with water (didn't use the acid or otherwise clean the inside) hooked up the hand pump enerpac and it got to about 50 pounds when there was a quiet pop, I thought maybe one of my fittings was loose and found some water dripping from the underside but wasn't sure if it was just dripping down the tank. a few more pumps and checked again and there was a little pisser coning out the bottom. So, lessons learned: The method I used is simple and easy and not at all dangerous as the water and oil is non-compressible.I found out we recently did one in our shop for a job in New Brunswick and they used an industrial Karcher power washer. Just get the right fittings together and pump it up to the test pressure with the wand trigger. They were a bit nervous that I would get water in the enerpac but I assured them that I would bleed the pressure from the tank with a valve to avoid sucking water into the pump.Now to find a decently priced new receiver!
Reply:Good work!Always the Pollyanna, I now criticize the idea of using a pressure washer to perform a pressure test on a tank using the wand trigger to control pressure.  Unless there is air trapped in the tank to provide a "cushion" for the volume of water entering the tank (the more air the more dangerous the test due to energy storage in the compressed air) it would be easy to overpressure the tank causing visible or hidden damage.  Rather than depending upon the finesse of the wand operator, using a pressure regulator on the outlet of the pump and using a safety valve set at a little above the target test pressure would make a safe test setup using a pressure washer.awright.
Reply:Wow, a burst at 50lbs...That tank must have been very weak. How ‘bout giving it a hammer thump in the failed area?I'll bet you'll find that the defect would have been very easy to catch with a hammer test.So does the Enerpac have 10,000 psi potential, yet will accurately read 50 psi on the gauge?Pictures?Good Luck
Reply:The weak spot was on the bottom. I had tapped around the main part but not the bottom.The Enerpac I used was a hand one, I have found that you can get pretty accurate with them It is probably good up to about 10,000 psi but the stroke is pretty light so you can add in SMALL increments, as long as you aren't just wailing away on it.I have heard of the pressure washer testing from several professionals in the field. Sure the control may be a little gross but testing it that way is better than the uncountable receivers sitting in the back of shops just waiting to fail.
Reply:I know metal pretty well from many years of welding it. I have seen so many stress fractures in red hot metal on old, thought to be in good shape parts. That I cannot even count the times I have spotted them. So a compressor tank that has been expanding and contracting for a very long time, has got to be subject to some stress facture. Some chlorine stress fracture. Also consider that a brand new tank may only be rated to run at temperatures within a certain range. And the use of an old or rusted compressor tank really seems unwise. I don't know if any of you guys ever work in real cold conditions. I do sometimes. And I have seen steel crack like glass, when it is subjected to hammering while near or just below zero degrees. So if you are taking this old tank out to a garage, or barn where it might see zero or below, and you crank it up, you are definitely gambling as far as I am concerned. I would ask an expert. And be sure to ask him if the ambient temperature means anything. Or if there is a minimum operating temperature.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrI am sure you can have oil and water together without mishap. However at a certain point, a certain temperature, they become explosive.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:However at a certain point, a certain temperature, they become explosive.
Reply:The welding ARC is a possibility. I know someone that had a coworker that just touched a tank with a an ARC rod, to stop a tiny pinhole in a repair he just did. The tank still had water and pressure in it. His arm was found later a block away with the ARC rod in it.What happened exactly, I don't know. Was it oil in the tank, just the water, just steam. I would have to do some destructive testing or severe small scale lab testing to determine that. Hot oil and water can create an explosive together. I have done some testing with this myself. And it was conclusive for me. Water is 8:1 oxygen over hydrogen by weight. That means a lot of oxygen. I mean a lot of oxygen, almost like liquid oxygen. For the record, I never claimed that the oil slick on your favorite fishing lake is going to capsize your boat with a Hiroshima blast. I stated that under pressure, where heat is always seconds away, you could easily create conditions where oil and water, became dangerous. Someone in my family was pumping contaminated diesel fuel and water out of a tank. The Bearing in the pump, went, heated and created the most amazing flame thrower they ever saw. It shot over to the acetylene storage tanks and detonated them, one by one. I know diesel fuel and it is not known to create a flame thrower without a catalyst. So I do not know what you guys are saying, or why you are saying it. I am just stating some fun American facts about science and industry, that may pertain to someone placing oil and water together at elevated pressure that often turns into elevated temperature and or chemical reactions. If you look at the ingredients of a Molotov Cocktail, you will see that one of them is water in the crude oil, the other gasoline, and wax. Sometimes common alcohol like Vodka is substituted. I don't think the water is in there to cool the enemy down. Or un- parch their lips. In fact I do believe that it will parch their lips nicely. I do not just go around saying things to say them. I say them because they are real. In Vietnam there is many a brave tail of how the men used diesel fuel, water, and an emulsifier to create homemade napalm. Because they could not get an air strike in time. So I just thought this would be common small factory knowledge. I also say these things because of George Washington, who said. "Nothing deserves your patronage more then the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness.        Sincerely,             William McCormickLast edited by William McCormick Jr; 01-21-2010 at 10:23 PM.Reason: Poor grammar, misspelled word, left out a word
Reply:Originally Posted by denrep"ForbiddenYou don't have permission to access /editpost.php on this server.Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request."WHAT?!?
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrHot oil and water can create an explosive together. I have done some testing with this myself. And it was conclusive for me. Water is 8:1 oxygen over hydrogen by weight. That means a lot of oxygen. I mean a lot of oxygen, almost like liquid oxygen. So I do not know what you guys are saying, or why you are saying it. I am just stating some fun American facts about science and industry, that may pertain to someone placing oil and water together at elevated pressure that often turns into elevated temperature and or chemical reactions.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:You mention hydrogen it is a funny gas. It used to be used for atomic hydrogen welding. By passing hydrogen through an arc, you can cause a very hot plasma. Just like the addition of a tiny bit of hydrogen to nitrogen in a plasma cutter can allow you to cut many inches of stainless steel. Helium will do that too. The hydrogen bomb works upon that principle. Although these effects are or seem explosive by all that would view them. I believe they have another term for it though. What I am talking about is that oil and water, when combined, and heated will at some temperature, explode. And the temperature may not be as high as you think.Take a look at this. http://www.rockwelder.com/wmv/KitchenOilFire.wmvWe had this debate already. And some were saying that air is getting into the blue column created by the fast moving gases coming out of the pot of hot oil. I know something about air flow and mixing of gases to create flame. I know that was not the case. So I did some experiments. http://www.rockwelder.com/wmv/hydrocarbonburn.wmvYou can see that the original all blue flame is no longer blue without oxygen getting into the flame before it comes out of the copper tube, in the movie link just above. There is no way to get that blue flame unless, water is lending oxygen to the oil in the pot of oil on fire.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrThere is no way to get that blue flame unless, water is lending oxygen to the oil in the pot of oil on fire.
Reply:Posted above:The hydrogen bomb works upon that principle.
Reply:Look at the profile of the candle. It causes air to be sucked around the outside edge and into the flame. That is not the case of the pot. I hope you genuinely posted your information for the sake of knowledge. Make a tube around a thin candle and it will not let air into the flame. It will either go out or create a smoky yellow flame. If I get a chance I will film it. Or your paraffin or wax has water in it. Or oxygen in it. I used to work HAZMAT and I came across paraffins that were contaminated with water, by the process that they were used in. Usually adhesives for packaging or labeling. If we lit one drop on fire, it could burn for as long as a minute, turn heavy metal cherry red, and we could not extinguish it. I worked with a fellow that had a bad experience with it. I was making fun of him. I apologized for a long time afterwards, when he lit a bong top cap with an invisible layer of this stuff, on it, on fire. We could not put it out. It started throwing balls of fire at us. The bong top glowed. I went from clown to almost soiling my shorts. I wish I had never doubted him. Because  we were standing about twenty feet away from the other 55 gallon drums filled with this stuff, and this cap started hurling balls of fire at us and the drums. Some of the balls shot as far as ten feet. I had told him that we were far enough away from the other drums for a test. And I kept saying come on what are you a chicken. He was shaking. I thought he was just over doing it. Never again will I say those words. It could be me in that position. He said to me about ten times. "You just don't know what this stuff can do. We are to close to the other drums". I just kept on saying come on. But more then likely the candle flame is taking air in from the sides. Because the base of the flame, is elevated above the edges. That is not the case with the oil fire or the acetylene in my movie. It would be like holding an oil soaked wick a few inches above the pot. Yes it would take in, or pull in air. Real experts dreaded the Manhattan project. They knew we already had planet sterilizing weapons. The Manhattan project was a counterintelligence operation. That was announced afterwards. But most did not want to hear about it. England and the United States promised to keep the secret of the atom from the world. Even though that meant total retardation and total paranoia, with subsequent demise of our civilization. There was no conspiracy at all, the government openly came out and said that they would treat us like retards. And we have lived up to that title.        Sincerely,             William McCormickLast edited by William McCormick Jr; 01-23-2010 at 07:49 PM.Reason: I misspelled some words and omitted some words
Reply:Real experts dreaded the Manhattan project. They knew we already had planet sterilizing weapons. The Manhattan project was a counterintelligence operation. That was announced afterwards. But most did not want to hear about it.England and the United States promised to keep the secret of the atom from the world. Even though that meant total retardation and total paranoia, with subsequent demise of our civilization.There was no conspiracy at all, the government openly came out and said that they would treat us like retards. And we have lived up to that title.