Press Project Requesting Help

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Hello Group,My next project is a hydraulic shop press.  I have acquired a ram, pump, and 4 table pins from a large Manley press.  I believe it was a 50 or 60 ton press.  I also have 8 pcs, 5' long each, MC 6 X 16.3 channel iron A36 I believe.  I need to build an open throat, H frame press.  I need the C or open throat to press Grand Scale railroad wheels on and off of axles.  The wheels will not fit through the table.  I do not expect to ever need anywhere near 50 tons but I think it is wise to build to that capacity (Plus a Large Safety factor) for safety and future sale when the time comes I can no longer participate in the Grand Scale hobby.I have attached a photo/scan of my preliminary drawing.  I would like to keep 36ish inches in the H frame portion and 12ish inches in the C or open throat due to the wheels being up to 12" in diameter.  I realize 6" is the radius but a little extra may be necessary if a live steam engine needs wheel/axle work.  You'll see two assembly options.  I prefer option 2 as it will provide a cleaner outside package BUT I will have to remove the ram/rolling support to move it to the open throat side.  I am fine with that as the moving won't be needed often.My calculations show about .3" deflection of all 4 cross beams (two in the table and two in the header) at 50 tons.  I have not accurately calculated the strength of the legs with holes in them.  The pins are 7/8" dia, I figure on 1" holes.  One hole through the center of the table channel and one just under and over the table so the table sets on all 4 pins (over holes being used if necessary when using the open throat).I would like to bolt it together in 2 leg portions, table portion, header portion, ram and hydraulics separate.  That MC 6X16.3 is heavy heavy heavy.This is all preliminary and I am totally open to suggestions and alterations.  I have considered the possible need to laminate/reinforce the header and/or table beams and the webs of the legs where the holes are to be drilled.  I will be taking photos for those of you who would like to use this for an education.  I have looked at many different builds including the ones I have had access to in person.Lay it on me.  I need all the help I can get.  Psychiatric is preferred.Thank You,Terry (B) Attached Images
Reply:Years ago my employer would get railroad axles from the steel mill for putting on new wheels and bearings. We had a 25' long horizontal shaft press. We found it was easiest to just remove the end bearing retainer (plate about 1" thick, 3 bolts and safety wired), then cold press the axle out of the wheel. We attempted to press new wheels onto the axles (after boring the hole to the interference fit size), but this failed miserably on several attempts. We finally found heating the wheel to about 300° F, with it flat, then drop the axle into it. The axle went right in, then everything cooled off and was done. As for your press, yes, a bit over 36" to clear the wheel, then the table would ideally be maybe 1/2" wider than the axle diameter so the wheel bears on the enlarged area around the axle bore. You don't want to press against the outside diameter of the wheel. Your table will need to be pretty stout as it is supported 36" +-, but you are pressing close to the center (18" +-)  I can't make any estimates of the tonnage required to remove the wheel from the axle. Just make sure you have the machinery to bore the wheel accurately to be able to put them back on, if it is part of what you are doing.
Reply:I did a little reading up on Grand Scale, and found there is a lot of difference in the gauge of the rails. I am not sure how much difference this would make in the fabrication of your press.
Reply:From my experience, i know nothing about gran scale trains , but i know quite well about combined presses because we made the mistake of adding an extra surface to our h frame press. exactly as your drawing shows.       Our frame is made of I beam about 6 x 12 , flange about 5/8-3/4 thick , web 3/8-1/2 thick, work surface 33 inches inside the H.  39 theorical tons. We added a 12 x 12 surafce on the side with a separated cyl. 4 inch bore aprox. 12 tons.Every time we had to work hard on the side table the press was dancing...sort of trammel or penthograph movement. We added numerous reinforcments and gussets and still are not very happy about it, it sure does the job nicely when you do not ask too much out of it.    Lesson learned if you need 2 work surfaces you should consider 2 separate frames. And 50 tons is surprisingly bending and deflecting structures of most of the home-made presses i saw. From that i am very suspicious of these light design home-made presses rated to a so call 50 tons.     Unfortunately i do not have pictures of the press and i'm not expecting to go to the shop for few days, if still needed a that time i'll send you some pics to show you what to  NOT do   Here a picture that i'm enclined to beleive will stand 50 tons.     http://rkmachinery.ca/model/h-frame-...ss-50-ton.aspxgood luck.
Reply:Hello Dave,Yes, there is quite a bit of difference in size and weight.  While the wheels you tackled are 36", most Grand Scale wheels are less than 12" but drivers on live steam locos can get up to 24".  The ones I have are about 9" dia but have been on the axles for about 65 years.  I'm figuring that I will have to take a good amount of pressure on them and then heat the wheel with a torch.  I'll have to be careful not to ruin the temper in the steel.  A sharp rap with a brass hammer might help.  I won't know until I try.The ultimate project is the restoration of a 1947 Carter Morehart Streamliner amusement park train.  My research is showing this may be the only surviving C-M train in existence.  I have found a couple of successor trains but no other C-M trains.  It would be a shame to lose the last one.Thanks Again Dave.  I appreciate the input.  I have hoisted wheel sets and traction motors with a crane but never had a wheel off the axle.  I think that project is bigger than I would ever want to take on.Merry Christmas EveryoneTerry (B)
Reply:Snowbird,Thank you for the warning.  I was not aware of such problems but I can sure see where they could come from.  I am attaching a photo of an Enerpac Press that is exactly what I think I need.  I do not know the capacity but it sure doesn't seem to be built very heavily.  I suspect it to be maybe a 20 ton range but I really don't have a clue as to the Enerpac engineering.
Reply:Enerpac as OTC as far as i know have good reputation their products are similar... 5 and 10 kpsi rams and pumps quite reliable.20 or 50 tons on the side table of that press ???!!! You go for it, i ll take a few steps back (yess i'm a sissy).
Reply:Terry,That is not an Enerpac press, it was built by a guy named Dave Propst.  I don't know him but I've seen his site for years.  To give a sense of scale that press is about eight ft tall.  Google the name and H press and you'll find a complete article on it.The guy is a craftsman.Mike
Reply:d110,I find Dave Propst name familiar but can't place it.  I figured it was and enerpac based on the attached photo.  Shows you what I know.Thanks,Terry
Reply:Hi Mike,Thanks for the tip.  I found the article.  I'll put some time into reading it tomorrow.  Definitely NOT an Enerpac once you see all the photos.  I haven't seen this site before.  Looks very interesting.  There are a lot more GOOD photos there to study for ideas and engineering.  I found my set of photos long ago and can't remember where it was.  Definitely NOT Dave's site though.  I would have remembered that.Thanks Again,Terry
Reply:WOW! Almost too cute to work with, high precision fabrication .  How many hours and money involved into it?      For ordinary shop work it would be a shame to straighten farm and construction dirty, rusted, bended and twisted parts on it.  It reminds me those famous snap-on 15,000.$ tool chest that bring insomnia to their owner every time someone get close to it.  It's  a work of art
Reply:Hello Mike and All,I just finished the Dave Propst press article.  Wow, there is a ton of great info there.  Thank you for correcting me and for directing me to Dave's web site.  Very impressive.I like his ideas and I am thinking of how I can incorporate the ones that most apply to my needs.Thanks Again & Merry Christmas,Terry
Reply:tackit,Thanks for the photos.  Looks like you have one heavy duty press there.  Nice Job!!!  You didn't say what the tonnage rating is?  Did you build "heavy" or did you use calculations to ensure desired strength? Thanks for helping me out.Cheers,Terry
Reply:Here is a picture of a press I have . I did no build it but it appears to be built from 4x4x3/8 angle for the uprights and 15x3/4 channel iron. The cylinder looks to be about 10" outside diameter.  it has had plenty of tonnage for me hope it helps.
Reply:Tackit and Weld one,Thanks for the photos and info.  You said you studied presses on the internet and that's what I am doing.  Thanks to you guys, I am getting a much better education.  Also, I'm beginning to think the MC6X16.3 isn't going to be heavy enough for a high tonnage press.  I hope to be able to use the formulas to calculate the actual capacity these will hold.  If it's high enough for my needs, I'll go ahead and build.  If not, I'll have to find some heavier steel or laminate some strap into the web.Thanks Again Gentlemen,Terry
Reply:My ram came off of a large Manley press.  Most I have seen are rated at 50 or 60 tons.  I also salvaged the pins.  4 of them and get this, they are only 7/8" diameter.  Just doesn't seem large enough for 50 tons.  But, they are definitely the pins out of the table.My biggest concern is who gets the press after me.  I can adjust or insert a relief valve to keep the tonnage safe as long as I own the press but the next guy my get the idea he can just go all the way to the capacity of the ram and blow the press up.  I can't have that.  So, I'm still researching the materials I have and will modify my plans from there.  I may have to sell the large ram for a smaller one.Thanks Tackit,Terry (B)
Reply:Tackit, terry.  I am also trying to put together a press that will handle 62 tons.   I appreciate your photos and information.  Will post photos one my son and I decide which way to go.  Thanks richey
Reply:Richey,Did you receive the PM I sent?I will be happy to work with you, sharing what I have found out.  Hopefully, we can each build a good useful and safe press.Terry M.
Reply:Tackit,Thanks for the help.  How did you decide on the 1"x5" legs?  I see other 50 ton presses with smaller steel in the legs.  I am going to see what comparisons I can find between the MC6x16.3 I have and your 7" 316 channel.Cheers,Terry M.