Cultivator Points

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I need to do some hard surfacing work on field cultivator points, and I think they are regular mild steel but does anyone know?Miller Dialarc 250Miller Bobcat 225Hobart Oxy/FuelCouple of Dewalt and Milwaukee GrindersJET Bandsaw and Drill Press
Reply:Why would they be mild steel?  Try 1075 or thereabouts carbon steel.  It's not like carbon is a rare or expensive element and it does have some wear resistance. "Plow steel" was high carbon."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:I would think that they are some type of AR steel. That shouldn't be a problem.
Reply:so if I wanted to I could run 7018 to use as a buttering layerMiller Dialarc 250Miller Bobcat 225Hobart Oxy/FuelCouple of Dewalt and Milwaukee GrindersJET Bandsaw and Drill Press
Reply:I don't see a problem provided you don't go too heavy with it or the hardface layer. If you need a lot of buildup I would use Lincoln BU rod.
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DI don't see a problem provided you don't go too heavy with it or the hardface layer. If you need a lot of buildup I would use Lincoln BU rod.
Reply:Build up with too heavy of a layer of 7018 may be too soft. And your hardface shouldn't be too heavy. With layers that are too heavy it is prone to chipping or breaking.
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DBuild up with too heavy of a layer of 7018 may be too soft. And your hardface shouldn't be too heavy. With layers that are too heavy it is prone to chipping or breaking.
Reply:You should be fine with that. I didn't know how much side wear you had to deal with.
Reply:Well the points usually last a year but by then they are thin and dull so I wanted to hard surface the new ones to make them not break as easy and be a little bit sharper there 51 points 8 inches long on each cultivator and I have two so it will take a while to do all of them .Miller Dialarc 250Miller Bobcat 225Hobart Oxy/FuelCouple of Dewalt and Milwaukee GrindersJET Bandsaw and Drill Press
Reply:Might want to look into powder spray for your application.
Reply:It rubs right off.Miller Dialarc 250Miller Bobcat 225Hobart Oxy/FuelCouple of Dewalt and Milwaukee GrindersJET Bandsaw and Drill Press
Reply:Using stick for that many points will be slow going. Using Mig or Flux core will speeds things up. Lincoln makes Lincore BU-G ,.045, 25 lb is about $115.00 per roll and Lincore 60-G,.045,25 lb is about $290.00 per roll. Check out Lincoln website information on wire or electrodes, then go to Weldingsupply.com to get prices. It may be cheaper to buy points that already have hard surfaced.
Reply:Some years ago read an article where a farmer used industrial chrome plating on his discs to extend life…DB
Reply:I started a similar discussion a while back so you might get some info out of this thread...http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ods&highlight=I don't see the point of adding the 7018 personally, I just lay a bead of hard surface material right on the shovel. Some paints are harder to burn through than others on new shovels though. I try to avoid putting too much heat into the tip (keep moving around 3 or 4 shovels and try to avoid concentrating the heat on the tip) or they will snap off when you hit a rock. I would think the extra pass might just make the tip more brittle. As noted, using stick takes some time, but I'm doing about 120 shovels at a time too and it's not too bad if you get it done in the winter before start in the field.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:I use a manganese rod that can be used as a build up rod. It is very tough, and work hardens to become hard surfacing the more it wears. It isn't quite as hard as a chrome hard surface, but builds up without getting brittle. If you're interested I'll get more info.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Id rather stick weld it because I have tons of old "wet" 7018 that I need to burnMiller Dialarc 250Miller Bobcat 225Hobart Oxy/FuelCouple of Dewalt and Milwaukee GrindersJET Bandsaw and Drill Press
Reply:Just put one layer of hardfacing on the top of almost new tips. Build up rod could be used first but it would be good to have a piece of copper to act as a mold to build them up to the right size. 7018 will mushroom because it is so soft. Google Stoody hardfacing guide book and it will show examples and what rods to use.
Reply:Use up that old 7018.Screw that stupid hard facing rod.It's not like your cultivator runs 24hours a day handly hundreds of tons of dirt per week.That 7018 will last a long time, and it's good practice.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Better cultivator shovels come hardfaced from the factory. Hardfacing will last 10 times longer than 7018.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveBetter cultivator shovels come hardfaced from the factory. Hardfacing will last 10 times longer than 7018.
Reply:On fairly new payloader and backhoe buckets I just put one layer hardfacing rods. On beat up points I layer first with 7018 then hardfacing rods. Loader and backhoe used on gravel and sand bussiness. Hardfacing last around three to four months depending on equipment usage and operator abuse before needing rework.
Reply:Expand your mind, http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ture/C7710.pdfLincoln BU Wearshield in 5/32" run ~ $5/lbLincoln Excaliburs in 1/8" run ~ $3/lbThe proper build-up electrode is not 10x the cost of 7018s.Last edited by ManoKai; 03-09-2015 at 06:09 AM.Reason: Math"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:build up one side only so the points are self sharpening.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:We tried this a few years back and quit doing it. Unless you face the entire sweep the dirt wears everything else away. The dealers usually run a spring special on sweeps making them pretty cheep. The sweeps that run behind the tires always wear out first. Surfacing those might buy you a little time in those areas. There are a lot of sweeps on a 50' cultivator. Dan D.Use the 7018 to burn it up while waiting to get in the field! Use it up as you state its old and damp.IMO Hardfacing rod is the correct way to go but the 7018 is free so maybe you will get an extra year out of the sweeps for the cost of your "practice" labor!
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKaiExpand your mind, http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ture/C7710.pdfLincoln BU Wearshield in 5/32" run ~ $5/lbLincoln Excaliburs in 1/8" run ~ $3/lbThe proper build-up electrode is not 10x the cost of 7018s.
Reply:Got any pictures of the parts you are talking about, perhaps both a new piece and a worn out one to show what you're trying to protect against?
Reply:The 'proper' underlayer or 'butter' layer depends on several choices:- what alloy is the actual 'metal' part- how much build-up is 'needed'- exactly, make that exactly what hardfacing alloy is being usedDifferent hardfacing alloys have different characteristics as well as different weld procedures.Some hardfacing alloys may be OK to weld onto a mild or medium carbon steel substrate with one or two passes.  Other alloys may need preheat.  Other uses may need some build-up layers to restore the original parts closer to their original dimensions before one or more hardfacing layers are added.  Some hardfacing layers are for use with one or two passes only, others may be 'rated' for use with up to three passes, others may be 'rated' for more possible passes/layers depending on exact substrate as well as the exact weld procedure and parameters that are affecting intermix between the substrate and the hardfacing layers.  Etc, etc, etc.RTFM on hardfacing alloys from Lincoln or Stoody or Hobart (consumables, not machines), etc.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopBut hard facing is 10 times the price.And the guy needs practice running beads as it is.The 7018 will last for years, altho I don't know how many acres he opens up each year.
Reply:I hard face shovels with mig it is quick and easy. Here shovels cost about $10.00 more per shovel to have hard surface on them. One bead on the bottom and some on top of the tip and they will last quite a while. Here is what I have used. Just today ordered some lincore 60-0 part #ed031131 it's about $10.00 a pound the lincoln sight said should be good for wear on dirt. I liked the lincore better than the Hobart. I got about 40 shovels a hour when I ran some in February. Well worth the effort in in my opinion. Good luck.
Reply:Curious why you would hardface the bottom?
Reply:Two reasons, 1) dirt flows over the top and the bead holds the shape as the shovel gets thinner. They only last so long whatever you do. 2) that's the way the ones are that I have bought. I put some on top of the tip as this wears the quickest. It seems when the hard surface is gone. So is the rest of the shovel.
Reply:Most tillage tools are made of 5160 steel and are heat treated. That's the same stuff leaf springs are made of. What that means is they are actually harder than your 7018 rod. I would suggest Stoody 101hc.  It is designed for ag/tillage.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:Some of the cultivator points Ive been working on.Done with Old Hobart 7018s from tractor supply, not my favorite electrode but I dont ever use them and didnt want to buy more so I just used them. Maybe when I finally get to the fields Ill be able to get another year outta a set of points!!Miller Dialarc 250Miller Bobcat 225Hobart Oxy/FuelCouple of Dewalt and Milwaukee GrindersJET Bandsaw and Drill Press
Reply:The absolute worst thing that can happen is that the weld wears down, and you have to build it up again.Experiment with a few, before you do all of them. Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:What about saving a bit of welding by doing a bit of a pattern? Similar to the cross-hatch you see on excavator buckets, etc.Given the shape of those points, maybe once around the perimeter and then go across the width every 1" or so. Would save on rods...Andrew
Reply:Used 7018 on an old Oliver roll over plow.  Wear grooves in the moldboards, and shins.  Still going strong after a lot of acres.Unless you grind it smooth, the beads will hold dirt, and prevent wear."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by Weld oneI hard face shovels with mig it is quick and easy. Here shovels cost about $10.00 more per shovel to have hard surface on them. One bead on the bottom and some on top of the tip and they will last quite a while. Here is what I have used. Just today ordered some lincore 60-0 part #ed031131 it's about $10.00 a pound the lincoln sight said should be good for wear on dirt. I liked the lincore better than the Hobart. I got about 40 shovels a hour when I ran some in February. Well worth the effort in in my opinion. Good luck.
Reply:That hollow tube was probably filled with a carbide powder of some sort. http://www.durmat.com/PDF-Files/Date...amtkatalog.pdf"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Would it be fine to use 6013 as a butter layer because I have some to use and would like to get some practiceMiller Dialarc 250Miller Bobcat 225Hobart Oxy/FuelCouple of Dewalt and Milwaukee GrindersJET Bandsaw and Drill Press
Reply:Originally Posted by farmwelderWould it be fine to use 6013 as a butter layer because I have some to use and would like to get some practice
Reply:any old free rod will work to build up surfaces on farm equipment....when it wears  down just do it again.. now if you talking big mining equipment that is for production use in rocks..then spend the $$$ for the correct hard facing rod....Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopThe absolute worst thing that can happen is that the weld wears down, and you have to build it up again.Experiment with a few, before you do all of them.
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronActually the worst that can happen is that you put too much heat into the end and the whole tip snaps off when you hit a rock.
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronActually the worst that can happen is that you put too much heat into the end and the whole tip snaps off when you hit a rock.
Reply:I feel your paintrailblazer 302 spoolmatic 25a with wc-24thermal arc 161s tig rigmillermatic 200dialarc 250 hf tig rig with spool gun and boxand wanting more......
Reply:Being a sweep has a lot more abrasion than impact, it would be better to run beads straight up and down or a herringbone pattern with the flow of material over the sweep.
Reply:Years ago I spent quite a little time hard facing with Stoodite and an acetylene torch.  But it got to the point where new shovels with factory hardfacing were cheaper than I could add the hardfacing.For something thin like a shovel I like a torch better than arc.  I can lay a smooth 1/2" wide hard face pass faster than you can make 2 passes with a arc, and the torch allows better thickness control.  But once you get above something like 5/16 thick the heating time with the torch is to long.
Reply:I think Stoody recommends a torch for cultivator shovels and sweeps. The stuff in a metal sleeve mentioned might have been tube Stoodite.