New here, New to welding. Jumped in the deep end!

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Hey! I'm new to welding. I have ALWAYS wanted to learn to tig weld. Up to this point, my custom fabrication included a lot of nuts and bolts. I picked up a miller econotig (for a song and a dance) due to me needing to make a custom intercooler setup for my racecar. Rather than pay someone else to make it-- I want to learn to do it myself. I have been trying to read as much as I can and watch as many videos as I can. I think I am progressing well for getting about 6 hours of practice a week for the past month with no education other than weldingtipsandtricks. This was me just running beads on some 6061 today to practice the motions. I did no surface prep so they probably look like garbage. https://www.dropbox.com/s/m476l45mfz...2002.56.06.jpgHere was my first project (i was getting antsy and had to make something). Its not structural-- just a foot guard to protect some brake lines/abs pump from getting kicked. https://www.dropbox.com/s/tz22x0wddx...2003.15.27.jpgI am trying to advance a little quicker than I know I should due to some projects I would like to get done. I hopped into some corner joints to see how I was doing. I definitely have issues with keeping the puddle consistent as well as keeping my torch hand consistent along the length of the weld-- I notice that I rotate my hand rather than slide it changing the torch angle along the course of the bead. I also notice that as the part heats up, my puddle expands outward and I have trouble modulating the petal correctly to compensate (with the econotig, I get 35-165A on the pedal so small movements make a big change). One issue I am noticing with the welds (other than them not being pretty/consistent) is that I think they are brittle. Here are 3 test pieces I did today to demonstrate what I mean. All 3 welds were wiped with acetone and moderately brushed with a dedicated stainless brush. I was about 85%ish pedal of the 35-165 range (so..about 140?), 2% lanthanated 3/32 electrode ground to a point with a dedicated wheel, 3/32 4043 filler, 100% argon, 70% polarity. Here's the welds. https://www.dropbox.com/s/148byfg30y...2002.37.23.jpgHere's my super scientfic testing of the welds. I bent them to see how they held up. All of the welds held to be able to bend 90ish degrees. They break almost immediately when i try and bend them back to straight. I am not sure what this means---is that really a good test of how strong a weld is or is the underlying issue just 4043 or 6061 breaking when you try and bend it back and forth like that? https://www.dropbox.com/s/u43ptiwqn0...2002.55.11.jpghttps://www.dropbox.com/s/i5h73l7s1v...2002.54.53.jpghttps://www.dropbox.com/s/0btdqseaki...2002.55.02.jpgJust so you can laugh. This is what happens when i try and weld thin wall intercooler tubing. I dont know what that is, but I am pretty sure it should be killed. https://www.dropbox.com/s/d46lxegkkb...2002.56.45.jpg
Reply:Originally Posted by stuiephotoHey! I'm new to welding. I have ALWAYS wanted to learn to tig weld. Up to this point, my custom fabrication included a lot of nuts and bolts. I picked up a miller econotig (for a song and a dance) due to me needing to make a custom intercooler setup for my racecar. Rather than pay someone else to make it-- I want to learn to do it myself. I have been trying to read as much as I can and watch as many videos as I can. I think I am progressing well for getting about 6 hours of practice a week for the past month with no education other than weldingtipsandtricks. This was me just running beads on some 6061 today to practice the motions. I did no surface prep so they probably look like garbage. https://www.dropbox.com/s/m476l45mfz...2002.56.06.jpgHere was my first project (i was getting antsy and had to make something). Its not structural-- just a foot guard to protect some brake lines/abs pump from getting kicked. https://www.dropbox.com/s/tz22x0wddx...2003.15.27.jpgI am trying to advance a little quicker than I know I should due to some projects I would like to get done. I hopped into some corner joints to see how I was doing. I definitely have issues with keeping the puddle consistent as well as keeping my torch hand consistent along the length of the weld-- I notice that I rotate my hand rather than slide it changing the torch angle along the course of the bead. I also notice that as the part heats up, my puddle expands outward and I have trouble modulating the petal correctly to compensate (with the econotig, I get 35-165A on the pedal so small movements make a big change). One issue I am noticing with the welds (other than them not being pretty/consistent) is that I think they are brittle. Here are 3 test pieces I did today to demonstrate what I mean. All 3 welds were wiped with acetone and moderately brushed with a dedicated stainless brush. I was about 85%ish pedal of the 35-165 range (so..about 140?), 2% lanthanated 3/32 electrode ground to a point with a dedicated wheel, 3/32 4043 filler, 100% argon, 70% polarity. Here's the welds. https://www.dropbox.com/s/148byfg30y...2002.37.23.jpgHere's my super scientfic testing of the welds. I bent them to see how they held up. All of the welds held to be able to bend 90ish degrees. They break almost immediately when i try and bend them back to straight. I am not sure what this means---is that really a good test of how strong a weld is or is the underlying issue just 4043 or 6061 breaking when you try and bend it back and forth like that? https://www.dropbox.com/s/u43ptiwqn0...2002.55.11.jpghttps://www.dropbox.com/s/i5h73l7s1v...2002.54.53.jpghttps://www.dropbox.com/s/0btdqseaki...2002.55.02.jpgJust so you can laugh. This is what happens when i try and weld thin wall intercooler tubing. I dont know what that is, but I am pretty sure it should be killed. https://www.dropbox.com/s/d46lxegkkb...2002.56.45.jpg
Reply:Pics are very clear.  When the real experts see and scrutinize them, they will be able to help you tweak your settings and technique to improve.  Keep up the practice and improvement. TxDoc's Photos Lincoln SP175 PlusLincoln Power Mig 256Lincoln 250 LX Spool Gun Lincoln Precision Tig 225 Hypertherm 600 KMG 2x72 Belt GrinderBaldor 812RE Grinder
Reply:Woundnt let me edit my first post. Here ya go. [QUOTE=stuiephoto;3123631]Hey! I'm new to welding. I have ALWAYS wanted to learn to tig weld. Up to this point, my custom fabrication included a lot of nuts and bolts. I picked up a miller econotig (for a song and a dance) due to me needing to make a custom intercooler setup for my racecar. Rather than pay someone else to make it-- I want to learn to do it myself. I have been trying to read as much as I can and watch as many videos as I can. I think I am progressing well for getting about 6 hours of practice a week for the past month with no education other than weldingtipsandtricks. This was me just running beads on some 6061 today to practice the motions. I did no surface prep so they probably look like garbage. Here was my first project (i was getting antsy and had to make something). Its not structural-- just a foot guard to protect some brake lines/abs pump from getting kicked. I am trying to advance a little quicker than I know I should due to some projects I would like to get done. I hopped into some corner joints to see how I was doing. I definitely have issues with keeping the puddle consistent as well as keeping my torch hand consistent along the length of the weld-- I notice that I rotate my hand rather than slide it changing the torch angle along the course of the bead. I also notice that as the part heats up, my puddle expands outward and I have trouble modulating the petal correctly to compensate (with the econotig, I get 35-165A on the pedal so small movements make a big change). One issue I am noticing with the welds (other than them not being pretty/consistent) is that I think they are brittle. Here are 3 test pieces I did today to demonstrate what I mean. All 3 welds were wiped with acetone and moderately brushed with a dedicated stainless brush. I was about 85%ish pedal of the 35-165 range (so..about 140?), 2% lanthanated 3/32 electrode ground to a point with a dedicated wheel, 3/32 4043 filler, 100% argon, 70% polarity. Here's the welds. Here's my super scientfic testing of the welds. I bent them to see how they held up. All of the welds held to be able to bend 90ish degrees. They break almost immediately when i try and bend them back to straight. I am not sure what this means---is that really a good test of how strong a weld is or is the underlying issue just 4043 or 6061 breaking when you try and bend it back and forth like that? http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...psbea47572.jpghttp://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...psbd52a48f.jpgJust so you can laugh. This is what happens when i try and weld thin wall intercooler tubing. I dont know what that is, but I am pretty sure it should be killed. http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b3...psfa8c6398.jpg Attached Images
Reply:Getting better? I upgraded to a gas lens and a #7 cup. What a world of difference. Im using a miller econotig. With 3/32 electrode (lanthniated) I have a lot of issues with wandering arc at low amperage. Is this typical for larger electrodes? For instance, if I am manually pulsing, when I'm full bore on the pedal the arc will be nice and tight, but when I let off it will start to fly all over the place. What causes this?
Reply:Hey, Stuie.I'm not the experts he was referring to, I'm learning too. Your break test shows absolutely no penetration on the base metals. All you have done is "stick" some filler to the faces. Those welds will not hold up at all.I think that is 1/8" aluminum and you are not running nearly hot enough. Aluminum has to be welded hot and fast. This is why it takes a lot more than 6 hours/week for a few weeks. I have put in easily over 120 hours of actual hood time and just now beginning to feel like I'm getting the hang of it on the easy stuff like you are doing.For 1/8", I have my syncrowave on 200 amps, floor it to get the puddle started, add filler and move! I back off as I get heat in the base metal and especially near the end of the bead where I step back a little. Other settings are similar to what you have - 3/32" 2% lanthanted.You need to run enough amps to open the "keyhole", the area between the two pieces will melt wider, push the filler in to cool it, and move on. That gives the penetration. The trick is to control the puddle so there is not too much heat and burn through the base. You should have some filler on the other side of the joint. Too much is not desirable either.Good luck. Keep practicing and posting pictures and we can try to help each other learn this!Last edited by wb4rt; 11-19-2013 at 08:58 AM.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:First off, I weld nothing but aluminum all day every day. What im about to say pisses everyone off (because its different), but i dont care. If you wanna get good fast ditch the foot pedal for now and get a simple on/off switch. This way you will learn to control the weld with just your travel speed and cooling effect of the filler. (after that way way way down the road you can introduce variable amperage and take it to the next level). I promise you would be 10 time better than you are now if you started this way. Next, dont waste another minute brushing and cleaning the aluminum. It is not necessary unless your working with old garbage heavily oxidized aluminum. in that case get some good fresh aluminum (still shiny). Just practice like crazy. I can tell you have what it takes, I could have you welding like a boss in days. As for the destructive test. I dont care how much penetration you get if you bend it that way it will break (unless you weld the back side). Because what i say goes against what the internet welding police say is law. i will post a couple photos to prove this method yields some decent welds. Not at all perfect, but you cant say its **** either. no foot pedal. www.performancealuminumfabrication.com
Reply:The first part about cooling with filler and travel speed is a trick Terry showed me.  So agree with that. Bigger filler rod helps too  As for cleaning,  I guess practice good habits.  But for practice a quick brushing is all I did.  Beyond that, can't comment... left for the pros.  Sent from my SCH-I545 using TapatalkTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by travisc454First off, I weld nothing but aluminum all day every day. What im about to say pisses everyone off (because its different), but i dont care. If you wanna get good fast ditch the foot pedal for now and get a simple on/off switch. This way you will learn to control the weld with just your travel speed and cooling effect of the filler. (after that way way way down the road you can introduce variable amperage and take it to the next level). I promise you would be 10 time better than you are now if you started this way. Next, dont waste another minute brushing and cleaning the aluminum. It is not necessary unless your working with old garbage heavily oxidized aluminum. in that case get some good fresh aluminum (still shiny). Just practice like crazy. I can tell you have what it takes, I could have you welding like a boss in days. As for the destructive test. I dont care how much penetration you get if you bend it that way it will break (unless you weld the back side). Because what i say goes against what the internet welding police say is law. i will post a couple photos to prove this method yields some decent welds. Not at all perfect, but you cant say its **** either. no foot pedal.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonDid you go to school for welding?
Reply:Originally Posted by travisc454No, I have not. Welding is my passion. Everyday i try to learn more and improve. I was taught by some amazing welders. I can recite all the same info said on here all day. It just frustrates me with the whole wire brush/acetone thing. It is completely unnecessary. Its kinda like the guys that always pop up and say you have to remove anodizing first. Then you have guys like myself that have welded thousands and thousands of pounds of the stuff that say (and prove) its not necessary. The best proof is take guys like John marcella and Aaron at 6061dot com. Guys like them are aliens. I work everyday with hopes to be as good as them one day. They do not use brushes and acetone and there welds are 10 levels above anyone any of us on this site. And to further back up my claims i have done work for huge companies like GE, I do lots of subsea parts, lots of aluminum pipe, machine shops all over town send me parts. My work is scrutinized on a daily.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonAwesome. You are good.Have you pulled down any certs or procedures yet? Your work is indictive to AWS D17.1(aerospace).  I see some things on your weld sample that you could work on. I can explain them privately if you wish. Can give you a couple of NadCap approved test labs for Radiograph and Micrograph if wish. John Marcella uses a foot pedal and pumps it for penetration. And I thought I read that he uses MEK or some other cleaner prior to weld. What you are doing is pretty amazing and works well for you in out of position welds. Myself, my approved procedures require chemical etch prior 24 hours prior to weld. And like John Marcella, I use my pedal to get full penetration root passes on structural items. Anyway good stuff.
Reply:Originally Posted by travisc454Thanks. I would like to see any info you have. The first pic is more of a show quality weld around the door to a camper so its a little exaggerated. The other is a fuel tank, but it was 14 gauge and passed pressure check. Don't get me started on AWS and procedures. I own a few, that one of the bigger companies required (and payed for). I know for a fact that Aaron (who is just as good as john) doesn't do any prep. I doubt John uses MEK. His work is so pretty that you couldn't even have a wire brush in the same room without scratching it. You just look at it funny and it will scratch. Im not saying foot pedal aren't a good thing. You couldn't weld on the level as John without one. I just think people need to start off without them. Its the most logical step. Take away the variable amperage and learn how to control the penetration with just your travel speed and filler. Then add variable amperage. I promise you will be ten times better in the same time as someone learning with a foot pedal.
Reply:Man I'm glad you guys said all that I've been doing bunch of aluminum without brushing first and was feeling guilty - but the world had not ended and the puddle looked very clean so I did not worry much.But then I tried that with roughly plasma cut edges....ok, prep needed!! Lots of trash in the puddle!Thanks for the down-and-dirty scoop on what pros do Btw, I learned tig with a scratch start and miller HF box - not much fun on aluminum but sure did not hurt me any.My foot control has officially spoiled me Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I like travis's idea of no foot pedal. I think I am going to give it a try. Travis, do you slope up and down at all when you do this or just hit it and go. Sorry for the highjack.Thanks.T.J.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonGood on ya for using procedures. Unfortunately I have to produce most of mine, and boy am I getting burned out on that. Terry
Reply:Wow Travis.  Just wow.  You are quite talented.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Travis, that is incredible work.