Pulse Mig Aluminum Welding

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We just got our first aluminum job of any significance, I have a question I should know, but I don't. Can I Pulse Weld on a Millermatic 350P with a spool gun?We have a marine expo going on in Seattle this week and I talked t o aluminum boat builder who said don't  get a push pull gun with that Millermatic 350P because the feeder on the welder and the pull motor on the gun will fight each other and after a month or so won't work. I would like to hold down the expense as much as possible on this first job and see how it goes.Thanks so much!Jim
Reply:I haven't used a spool gun on it so I can't answer that one for ya, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.  At work we have a xr aluma pro on the 350p and have not had any problems with the two motors fighting each other. The is a function in the setup menu to calibrate the motor on the gun to run the same speed as the drive rollers in the machine. I have ran at least 10 16lb spools of 5356 wire through it without a problemSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now FreeMiller 350pSyncrowave 350 lx
Reply:Yes you can, I used it on ours at work. As for the push/pull fighting each other ....they don't, like Brian above said, there's a calibration function so they work in unison.....Mike
Reply:You need XRA gun with a 14 pin connector. B.J.
Reply:Yes you can pulse. High speed pulse. Yes it works great.No they don't fight each other. The standard(all metals) 350P, accepts the alumipro push-pull gun. But because of the heavy duty wire drive that motor torque needs to be syncronized to the pull gun. Otherwise the primary drive will overpower the pull gun. Once done it is locked in and no further adjustment is needed unless you have some kind of power spike. The alum only 350P-alum on the other hand only has an assist drive in the cabinet, and requires the installation of the pull gun. It does not need a synchronization. Do you have a 350P yet?  If you buy a gun, make sure it is compatible with a new 350P-alum power supply. Because once you are done you may want to put the standard gun back on your 350P and purchase the 350P-alum power supply. Yes, the 350P-alum model is THAT good.Money aside, if you have that job, and I was in charge of the project, I would just write a P.O. for a brand spanking new 350P-alum machine. Factoring in the cost of the alumipro gun, which is some $2k, I would keep your old machine for what you have it tuned for. I demoed a 350P-alum with thier new 4943 wire for Miller, and that wire actually wants high speed pulse to assist in wetting to the root. We were seeing a good 20% increase in wetting at the root and toes from what we think is some kind of cleaning ability. It also likes plain old argon instead of argon-helium mix which I am currently using with my standard 350P.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:So would you reccomend buying the alum version and then buying a mig gun ?  I'm gonna either buy a 350p or a Lincoln 350mp. Just not sure which way to go
Reply:I have a 350P with the Alumipro push pull and it has performed flawlessly. I don't use it every day but have used it quite a bit and no problems at all. I had a spool gun but like the push/pull 200% better!
Reply:Originally Posted by padronanniversarySo would you reccomend buying the alum version and then buying a mig gun ?  I'm gonna either buy a 350p or a Lincoln 350mp. Just not sure which way to go
Reply:for the aluminum stay with the miller.  I ran the lincoln pulse at the shipyard and I am NOT a big fan.  Difficult to set and getting a consistant weld after a few hours was difficult.    spent way to much time adjusting the machine.   I am dying to try the new 4943 wire  I saw the youtube vid about the results and benifits.   Cant wait to get it once I get a alumapro“I'm going to do the thing that God put Galen Beasley on this Earth to do:Have Salon quality hair and weld.Nothing like a good cup of coffee and the smell of 6010 burning in the morning. 971-204-3444 cell API ASME Structural NDT and Repair
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonNothing wrong with the Lincoln, but the pulse on pulse while great for steel, is complicated for me. I can simulate the secondary pulse with a whip motion. Lincoln makes good stuff though, however the pull gun is not.
Reply:Jim8014, I have the Lincoln 350MP and think if you need to get work done soon, and without much ramp up the Miller is a better idea.In the end, if you're thinking long term the Lincoln 350MP Power MIG will (can because of the range an extent of the various arc control settings) run circles around the comparable Miller but the learning curve is steeper, longer up-hill and therefore less short term profit.  I think Miller and Lincoln have different ideas in designing and selling these two somewhat simpler power supplies. Of course, without having inside information we'll never know; but Miller is looking for and providing simplified, less complex and therefore easier to learn controls and settings.  Lincoln's entry into this niche in the market has many, many, many more control variables to learn to balance.In fact, Lincoln's 'back room guys' or the engineering designers of the MP350 series power supplies do not intend you by this series for the 'one man shop' unless you also attend their expensive week long training!!! At least I was told that by a Tech. Support guy when I called asking for details about settings' interrelation.So, if you have to get up and running in the short term, and need to deliver a job that is perhaps a step up in your overall business - I'd say Miller's out of the box usefulness will be better. Simple is better for quick production, longer term may be another consideration?If you're willing to spend 30-100 hours of programming/experimenting/practice time (depends on how fast you assimilate info and welding parameter influences on weld beads?) and want a long term single MIG power supply to do all alloys, all thicknesses,  with full control of the cosmetics without 'whipped' welds....?.... then the Lincoln will offer more exact and higher end arc control.  I like the Lincoln MP350 Power MIG and the version I have was sold with the (MK Products made) Python push pull torch, which automatically synchronizes the two motors (with a 'stall' adjustment feature, for the case motor,  that is field adjustable).  The other thing to be cautious about the Lincoln reselling of the MK torch is the need, in aluminum, of the drive roll isolation kit for the torch  (especially for 5356 Lincoln wire), Lincoln seems not to know these electrical isolation kits exist (?)  so I went to MK to get them after calling to discuss the similar problem from my old Cobramatics years ago,  and once installed the feed consistency 'flattened out'- where formerly it was erratic.The arc controls (on the Lincoln MP350) are not intuitive based on thousands of hours of work on other power supplies, and unfortunately (IMO) the wire speed and voltage are inter-tied - (Damn.)This power supply has 3 dozen weld 'modes' or wire alloy and diameter settings (including Lincoln's Pulse with Pulse for various wires) and 6 major configurable settings of arc controls which range from -10 to +10 and so the number of combinations of modes and grouped settings is huge.This is why so may welders have so many problems learning this power supply's controls- they take a while to figure out; or go pay Lincoln twice -once for the 5-6k$ for the power supply and that again for the training.   I couldn't leave Alaska and spend a week gone for an additional 4k$ making Lincoln's idea of what I should have paid about 15k$....!!!!  So I set up each control in the half dozen modes I use and tested weld after after weld with different ranges of settings and I will tell you this is time consuming!!!I don't regret the long hours learning the controls' settings and combinations for different modes but I've not scratched the surface so I want to make sure you understand this Lincoln power supply is great- but not too highly productive right out of the box, IMO.The two companies seem to be targeting different markets with their control design philosophy? Miller seems more interested in low learning times, simpler controls and Lincoln's ideas seem to be more complex controls but they naturally take longer to learn to apply.my few cents, best of luck with your project and whatever welding system you choose.Cheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AK
Reply:Originally Posted by Silicon-basedPulse-on-pulse is for aluminum only, not for steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by jim8014We just got our first aluminum job of any significance, I have a question I should know, but I don't. Can I Pulse Weld on a Millermatic 350P with a spool gun?Jim
Reply:One more thing.  If you can afford the push pull and want to go that way, the manual basically says to open up the tension on the drivers inside the 350P to the lightest setting.  There is no fight, the push pull gun wins.  Roumor has it there is in fact a manual for the 350P - and most, like me, don't actually read it - except as a last resort.  Leave the internal drive rollers at full/normal pressure - and then you will have that fight.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Originally Posted by con_fuse9One more thing.  If you can afford the push pull and want to go that way, the manual basically says to open up the tension on the drivers inside the 350P to the lightest setting.  There is no fight, the push pull gun wins.  Roumor has it there is in fact a manual for the 350P - and most, like me, don't actually read it - except as a last resort.  Leave the internal drive rollers at full/normal pressure - and then you will have that fight.
Reply:Originally Posted by Kevin MorinJim8014, I have the Lincoln 350MP and think if you need to get work done soon, and without much ramp up the Miller is a better idea.In the end, if you're thinking long term the Lincoln 350MP Power MIG will (can because of the range an extent of the various arc control settings) run circles around the comparable Miller but the learning curve is steeper, longer up-hill and therefore less short term profit.  I think Miller and Lincoln have different ideas in designing and selling these two somewhat simpler power supplies. Of course, without having inside information we'll never know; but Miller is looking for and providing simplified, less complex and therefore easier to learn controls and settings.  Lincoln's entry into this niche in the market has many, many, many more control variables to learn to balance.In fact, Lincoln's 'back room guys' or the engineering designers of the MP350 series power supplies do not intend you by this series for the 'one man shop' unless you also attend their expensive week long training!!! At least I was told that by a Tech. Support guy when I called asking for details about settings' interrelation.So, if you have to get up and running in the short term, and need to deliver a job that is perhaps a step up in your overall business - I'd say Miller's out of the box usefulness will be better. Simple is better for quick production, longer term may be another consideration?If you're willing to spend 30-100 hours of programming/experimenting/practice time (depends on how fast you assimilate info and welding parameter influences on weld beads?) and want a long term single MIG power supply to do all alloys, all thicknesses,  with full control of the cosmetics without 'whipped' welds....?.... then the Lincoln will offer more exact and higher end arc control.  I like the Lincoln MP350 Power MIG and the version I have was sold with the (MK Products made) Python push pull torch, which automatically synchronizes the two motors (with a 'stall' adjustment feature, for the case motor,  that is field adjustable).  The other thing to be cautious about the Lincoln reselling of the MK torch is the need, in aluminum, of the drive roll isolation kit for the torch  (especially for 5356 Lincoln wire), Lincoln seems not to know these electrical isolation kits exist (?)  so I went to MK to get them after calling to discuss the similar problem from my old Cobramatics years ago,  and once installed the feed consistency 'flattened out'- where formerly it was erratic.The arc controls (on the Lincoln MP350) are not intuitive based on thousands of hours of work on other power supplies, and unfortunately (IMO) the wire speed and voltage are inter-tied - (Damn.)This power supply has 3 dozen weld 'modes' or wire alloy and diameter settings (including Lincoln's Pulse with Pulse for various wires) and 6 major configurable settings of arc controls which range from -10 to +10 and so the number of combinations of modes and grouped settings is huge.This is why so may welders have so many problems learning this power supply's controls- they take a while to figure out; or go pay Lincoln twice -once for the 5-6k$ for the power supply and that again for the training.   I couldn't leave Alaska and spend a week gone for an additional 4k$ making Lincoln's idea of what I should have paid about 15k$....!!!!  So I set up each control in the half dozen modes I use and tested weld after after weld with different ranges of settings and I will tell you this is time consuming!!!I don't regret the long hours learning the controls' settings and combinations for different modes but I've not scratched the surface so I want to make sure you understand this Lincoln power supply is great- but not too highly productive right out of the box, IMO.The two companies seem to be targeting different markets with their control design philosophy? Miller seems more interested in low learning times, simpler controls and Lincoln's ideas seem to be more complex controls but they naturally take longer to learn to apply.my few cents, best of luck with your project and whatever welding system you choose.Cheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AK
Reply:If you buy a 350mp or C300. Need to get welding fast, just put them in mode 5 and manually set your favorite  settings. Mode 5 is plain CV MIG with no extras.
Reply:Kevin you pretty much summed up my experience.   A lot of work to set up a machine that didn't stay consistent.  Also like you said wire feed speed is directly tied to amps.   If I was confident I could get consistent welds for a multi run situation I would consider owning one.  But being too complex on top of irregularities I'm considering other scalable options like the miller.  An average welder with years of experience is going to have too many issues with that unit to be productive.  If I can't train someone on it, not worth my time or money.   Originally Posted by Kevin MorinJim8014, I have the Lincoln 350MP and think if you need to get work done soon, and without much ramp up the Miller is a better idea.In the end, if you're thinking long term the Lincoln 350MP Power MIG will (can because of the range an extent of the various arc control settings) run circles around the comparable Miller but the learning curve is steeper, longer up-hill and therefore less short term profit.  I think Miller and Lincoln have different ideas in designing and selling these two somewhat simpler power supplies. Of course, without having inside information we'll never know; but Miller is looking for and providing simplified, less complex and therefore easier to learn controls and settings.  Lincoln's entry into this niche in the market has many, many, many more control variables to learn to balance.In fact, Lincoln's 'back room guys' or the engineering designers of the MP350 series power supplies do not intend you by this series for the 'one man shop' unless you also attend their expensive week long training!!! At least I was told that by a Tech. Support guy when I called asking for details about settings' interrelation.So, if you have to get up and running in the short term, and need to deliver a job that is perhaps a step up in your overall business - I'd say Miller's out of the box usefulness will be better. Simple is better for quick production, longer term may be another consideration?If you're willing to spend 30-100 hours of programming/experimenting/practice time (depends on how fast you assimilate info and welding parameter influences on weld beads?) and want a long term single MIG power supply to do all alloys, all thicknesses,  with full control of the cosmetics without 'whipped' welds....?.... then the Lincoln will offer more exact and higher end arc control.  I like the Lincoln MP350 Power MIG and the version I have was sold with the (MK Products made) Python push pull torch, which automatically synchronizes the two motors (with a 'stall' adjustment feature, for the case motor,  that is field adjustable).  The other thing to be cautious about the Lincoln reselling of the MK torch is the need, in aluminum, of the drive roll isolation kit for the torch  (especially for 5356 Lincoln wire), Lincoln seems not to know these electrical isolation kits exist (?)  so I went to MK to get them after calling to discuss the similar problem from my old Cobramatics years ago,  and once installed the feed consistency 'flattened out'- where formerly it was erratic.The arc controls (on the Lincoln MP350) are not intuitive based on thousands of hours of work on other power supplies, and unfortunately (IMO) the wire speed and voltage are inter-tied - (Damn.)This power supply has 3 dozen weld 'modes' or wire alloy and diameter settings (including Lincoln's Pulse with Pulse for various wires) and 6 major configurable settings of arc controls which range from -10 to +10 and so the number of combinations of modes and grouped settings is huge.This is why so may welders have so many problems learning this power supply's controls- they take a while to figure out; or go pay Lincoln twice -once for the 5-6k$ for the power supply and that again for the training.   I couldn't leave Alaska and spend a week gone for an additional 4k$ making Lincoln's idea of what I should have paid about 15k$....!!!!  So I set up each control in the half dozen modes I use and tested weld after after weld with different ranges of settings and I will tell you this is time consuming!!!I don't regret the long hours learning the controls' settings and combinations for different modes but I've not scratched the surface so I want to make sure you understand this Lincoln power supply is great- but not too highly productive right out of the box, IMO.The two companies seem to be targeting different markets with their control design philosophy? Miller seems more interested in low learning times, simpler controls and Lincoln's ideas seem to be more complex controls but they naturally take longer to learn to apply.my few cents, best of luck with your project and whatever welding system you choose.Cheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AK