Will I benefit from a suitcase welder?

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Hello, this is my first post, but I have been lurking for several months.  This is a fantastic resource!  I am in the process of setting up a service truck for my own ranch/farm use.  I currently have a Hobart champion elite welder/generator and Lincoln 175t mig welder.  Most of my work is in the field and is on heavy wornout ag and contruction equipment.  I am considering a suitcase welder such as an ln-25 or 12vs.  I primarly want it for high amperage work.  The suitcase will be running off my engine drive (100% duty cycle at 225amps).  My main question is, "will I see a significant performance improvement with a suitcase welder over my 175?" I am not all that worried about duty cycle because the majority of my repairs are quick fixes, but I am concerned about having enough Juice.  I know the suitcase welders are capabable of significantly more performance than my 175, but is it that much better knowing that I am limited to 225amps on DC.  thanks for your time,farmer2
Reply:Possibly. A VS suitcase off a CC power source has some disadvantages. It will not run solid wire in short circuit like your little Lincoln does. It will work best with larger FC wires up in spray mode. It will lay down a lot of metal and run it very hot. If you need to weld 1/4" and up no problem, but thinner than that is not easy. Also running spray in vertical and overhead is a PITA. You really need to be able to read the puddle well or it will be an ugly mess. Flat and horizontal fillet welds aren't that hard to do.Unfortunately your engine drive is not CC/CV capable. CV is really the way to go if you want to run wire.Take a minute to add your location to your profile at the top of the page. Maybe someone here can let you run a few beads with their feeder off your machine so you have a better understanding what you are in for. Your little mig doesn't have the output to run in spray so you can't tell from using that..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:thanks for the quick reply and the heads up on my profile.  I am located in north central Washington state.  If I did get a suitcase welder, It would only be run with flux core wire and for heavy equipment repair.  Such as modifying or repairing our 312 b excavator or our 920 cat wheel loader.  My primary concern is whether my engine drive puts out enough amperage for me to see a big improvement over my 175.  IF it helps, I only run flux core in the 175 because i'm always in the field and working on rusty old equipment.  thanks,farmer2
Reply:Yes you will get more output with the suitcase. CEP here may be able to give you some idea what sort of performance you can expect on 225amps 100% duty cycle with FC wire. He's run more of that than I have. I run my VS feeder on CV when I have to use it and usually run solid wire and gas vs FC..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Here's some .045 NR-212, and 1/16-inch 21-B ran with a 48-year old CC only engine drive, and a LN-25. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:CEP, what size FC wire do you think he can run off 225 amps?.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I'd say 1/16-inch, but he'll really put the hurt on a 225-amp machine to get any real production. We use to put the hurt on 400-amps machines on the job. http://www.hobartbrothers.com/produc...d%26reg%3B+21BDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Then he should be able to run .045 FC with no real issues. I doubt he'll have a need to run anything heavier than that for what he probably needs to get done..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:.045 wire he should be good to go! My Innershield book doesn't go below .068. For NR-211 Lincoln says amp range of 120, 190, 320. Now on these T-11 wires you can over power them! Good way to tell is, if the slag doesn't cover the whole weld. http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...olnElectric%29 Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:awesome guys.  It looks like while I won't be maxing out the suitcase,  I will definitely get improved performance over the 175.  So is the consenses .045 fc wire?
Reply:LN-25s are good for 500-amps. I know I've come very close to that for 10-hour days, for months at a time. I wouldn't be afraid to run 1/16-inch 21-B. Just don't go balls to wall production, or you'll be buying a new welder! Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:What you run will depend some what on what you are welding. Big metal usually means big wire if you want to lay down a lot of material in a hurry. However big wire has it's limits as you go down in material size. Smaller wire may be more useful on average, even if you have to take longer to do the welds on heavier stuff. Not all FC wire is the same. Some is rated for multiple passes, some for limited thicknesses, some is rated for seismic use for example. You need to know what you are going to weld to decide what is the right one to use..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:ok thanks DSW. CEP those are excellent looking welds!
Reply:Originally Posted by farmer2CEP those are excellent looking welds!
Reply:.045 with proper joint prep & pre-heat should handle most anything you run across.
Reply:''Thank you! Next Tuesday it will be two whole weeks of welding for me. ''  I like that. When somebody ask me about how long you been welding, I say counting today  5 days.
Reply:Well i think im going to start looking for a good deal on a used one.  I live in the middle of nowhere,so ill have to find one that can be shipped. Thanks farmer2
Reply:I've bought two LN-25s off eBay, both work great. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Plenty of options in a VS type suitcase. LN 25's can often bring premium money, but I've seen them go moderately cheap as well. Older Miller Super S32P's and Hobart Hefty's go for between $400-600. The newer Miller 8VS and 12VS units usually start at $600 and go up..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I would recommend .068 because the selection if wire is better, especially for low alloy stuff. You can find good deals on the feeders as mentioned earlier, but the flux core guns are hard to find at a good price. After using one for a while you will most likely want to upgrade your power source (its a visouse cycle ) .Miller xmt304,  Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DI would recommend .068 because the selection if wire is better, especially for low alloy stuff. You can find good deals on the feeders as mentioned earlier, but the flux core guns are hard to find at a good price. After using one for a while you will most likely want to upgrade your power source (its a visouse cycle ) .
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWPlenty of options in a VS type suitcase. LN 25's can often bring premium money, but I've seen them go moderately cheap as well. Older Miller Super S32P's and Hobart Hefty's go for between $400-600. The newer Miller 8VS and 12VS units usually start at $600 and go up.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI've bought two LN-25s off eBay, both work great. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40
Reply:Running .045 you might get away with using a regular Mig gun, but 1/16, .068, 5/64-inch no way! It may run for a minute, but when the wire gets hot it will freeze up in a regular Mig liner. Here is a K-126 gun. The gray LN-25 I paid something like $700.00 FOB my front porch. It came with drive rolls from .030 to 3/32-inch, and a couple guns. The Black LN-25 I bought for a friend, because he is one of the five who doesn't do eBay. $450.00 FOB my front porch. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by farmer2nteresting. I knew i would need different rollers for flux core, but it takes a special gun as well?This might be a silly question, but can i cool a mig gun with compressed air so i dont have to buy a fc gun?
Reply:Originally Posted by farmer2This might be a silly question, but can i cool a mig gun with compressed air so i dont have to buy a fc gun?
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPSure, but there goes your production! Might as well oxygen acetylene weld. I just read where member killdozer11 uses a Q 300 gun that allows him to Mig, and flux core, and dual shield I was going to ask him about it, but spaced out. Post 13 in this thread.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...elder-question
Reply:Oh! Never thought about that. See I'm not good at thinking out of the box.https://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/ei...NDEF:X:K126-12Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPOh! Never thought about that. See I'm not good at thinking out of the box.https://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/ei...NDEF:X:K126-12
Reply:I didn't know that about flux core.  I have always used my mig gun and rollers, but use .035 and .045 only so far. Guess I better research guns if I ever want to push that feeder.  The only jobs I have used it on has been low settings.
Reply:Originally Posted by blackbartI didn't know that about flux core.  I have always used my mig gun and rollers, but use .035 and .045 only so far. Guess I better research guns if I ever want to push that feeder.  The only jobs I have used it on has been low settings.
Reply:Where I got an education on flux core guns. In 1982 I bought this setup. With a Tweco model 4 Mig gun, it wouldn't work with 5/64-inch Innershield wire. Went to a welding supply close to the job site, they talked me into buying a Tweco flux core gun. It worked for about 1 1/2-minutes! Wouldn't feed wire through the gun until it cooled down. Remove the gun feeder fed wire perfectly! Put the Tweco flux core gun back in same thing over and over. Went to another welding supply, bought a Lincoln K-126 gun with a Miller adapter, worked perfect! Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by farmer2CEP, do you think the air might work?
Reply:If I were considering runing air through a gun I'd just buy CO2 since it's cheap and the expansion from liquid to vapor cools it down considerably. I run pneumatic tools and inflate tires off a CO2 cylinder already. Good stuff.Can parts still be had for the heftys ?
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI have no idea. I'll bet it will be more like a carbon arc torch! But then again I have welded with flux core wire in 90-MPH wind in Alaska. Couldn't walk around, but I could sit on my a$$ and weld all day.
Reply:I believe those rollers are the pre quick change style that many of the millermatic 200 and 35 used. Older 22 and 32 feeders used them as well. Most of the machines that had them have been changed to the newer style where you turn the dial and slip them on.Miller xmt304,  Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallIf I were considering runing air through a gun I'd just buy CO2 since it's cheap and the expansion from liquid to vapor cools it down considerably. I run pneumatic tools and inflate tires off a CO2 cylinder already. Good stuff.Stoody has rollers and Thermal Arc who took over the feeder production will email manuals (I can't find the one I had as a .pdf at the moment) and should have some parts.There is a Miller whose rollers and guides match Hefty precisely. Pics are of a set I have checked my Hefty. Neat design as the halves "flip" to handle two different wire sizes.Does anyone know what Miller (presumably a feeder but might be a standalone MIG) this style fits?
Reply:Originally Posted by farmer2I think I could get it down to 5psi
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPGive it a try, you got nothing to loose. But you must have more patience than I do! When a machine doesn't work right for me I want to run over the POS, and go get one that does work right.
Reply:I believe those rollers are the pre quick change style that many of the millermatic 200 and 35 used. Older 22 and 32 feeders used them as well. Most of the machines that had them have been changed to the newer style where you turn the dial and slip them on.
Reply:A good bunch of info here. I'm just curious though, why is it you want wirefeed beyond your current machine capacity anyway? To me, wire feed is about production (versus stick anyway) - laying down pounds of filler material for days on end. For occasional equipment repair, I don't see why you aren't happy with stick?Regards,JasonXMT 350 MPA Dynasty 280DXSuitcase 8RC / OptimaSpoolmatic 30AThermco Ar / C02 mixerAssorted O/A gear
Reply:Miller has a catalog with the common consumables and parts for welders, feeders, plasma cutters and welding guns. It shows all the drive rolls available through them. Your welding supplier should have it.Miller xmt304,  Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:[QUOTE=BCRD;3382671]A good bunch of info here. I'm just curious though, why is it you want wirefeed beyond your current machine capacity anyway? To me, wire feed is about production (versus stick anyway) - laying down pounds of filler material for days on end. For occasional equipment repair, I don't see why you aren't happy with stick?Regards,Jason[/QUOTEA fair question, on occasion I have large projects . Last summer I built a set of corrals out of mainline pipe and well casing. I used 2500ft of pipe, so on ocassion I need production speed.
Reply:I would not bother the175 on NR-211 should be fine , use stick work flat and use E-7028 3/16 and E 7018 5/32 on out position till you get a bigger welder and feeder.
Reply:Originally Posted by PavinsteelmanI would not bother the175 on NR-211 should be fine , use stick work flat and use E-7028 3/16 and E 7018 5/32 on out position till you get a bigger welder and feeder.
Reply:I'd be ok with the LN25 on corral work, panels, etc.  Fine when using self shielding flux core wire.I wouldn't be fine with the wire on anything that moves down the road, or is under a lot of flex in the field.  NR211 is a very brittle wire (brittle weld), and not suited for anything subject to fatigue, or low temp operation subject to shock.There are gas shielded flux core wires out there that are very good for Charpy rating, and fatigue scenarios...........but then you're back to square one......can't use gas on a portable rig like yours without tenting or some way of blocking the breeze.In the real world, the LN25 will get you increased duty cycle over the little wire feed welder, but ask yourself if you really need 100% duty cycle most of the time.  Between fitup, moving the machine, etc...........you'd be surprised at how little you really run a welder most of the time unless it's prefitted fabrication type stuff (and again you're back to gas shielded wire for the most part)I got one, and use it occasionally, but not too much.  Most of the portable stuff I do around this place is generally on thicker metals that I can use a stick machine on.  I mainly bought mine to be able to go up in amperage and duty cycle around the "shop".  It was a cheaper way to get into higher amps without buying a dedicated wire welder.  It stretches the utility of my engine drive welder with only about a $800 investment (there's cheaper used ones out there, mine was in the high range for a used LN)"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:[QUOTE=farmersamm;3385141]I'd be ok with the LN25 on corral work, panels, etc.  Fine when using self shielding flux core wire.I wouldn't be fine with the wire on anything that moves down the road, or is under a lot of flex in the field.  NR211 is a very brittle wire (brittle weld), and not suited for anything subject to fatigue, or low temp operation subject to shock.There are gas shielded flux core wires out there that are very good for Charpy rating, and fatigue scenarios...........but then you're back to square one......can't use gas on a portable rig like yours without tenting or some way of blocking the breeze.In the real world, the LN25 will get you increased duty cycle over the little wire feed welder, but ask yourself if you really need 100% duty cycle most of the time.  Between fitup, moving the machine, etc...........you'd be surprised at how little you really run a welder most of the time unless it's prefitted fabrication type stuff (and again you're back to gas shielded wire for the most part)I got one, and use it occasionally, but not too much.  Most of the portable stuff I do around this place is generally on thicker metals that I can use a stick machine on.  I mainly bought mine to be able to go up in amperage and duty cycle around the "shop".  It was a cheaper way to get into higher amps without buying a dedicated wire welder.  It stretches the utility of my engine drive welder with only about a $800 investment (there's cheaper used ones out there, mine was in thhigh range for a used LN)[/QUOTYa I'm not to worried about duty cycle for the reasons you stated.  What I'm interested in is speed and amperage. I find that I use my wirefeed 75 % of the time and would use it 90% of the time if I could get the amps.  Im a good stick welder, I just love the convenience of wire .
Reply:How do you guys feel about an 8 vs?  I know it limits my wire options , but I'm sure it will hardly ever see any wire besides ..045 fc.  I do have a hard facing job coming up on my 312b,  would the 8vs limit my options there?
Reply:I have burnt hundreds of spools of wire off a CC engine drive with a VS feeder, your not doing sheetmetal, but you will be fine for 1/4" and overDisclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."