Ouch, need arc welding help - horiz fillets

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I'm a newby welder.  Finished up welding 101 at my local community college, now trying to do projects for myself.  Need a little advice.  I'm using an old Sears / Craftsman AC/DC 220v welder, 1980 vintage.  Not as nice as what we used in class (Lincoln Idealarc 250), but seems to work okay.  I will say I don't trust the amperate pointer readout. The numbers seem too high to me.  I'm working in an open garage, temperature is between 25 - 35 deg F.  I'm working right at te edge of the open garage door (mostly for light.) Yeah, its cold but not all that bad.Available rod:  E6010, E6013, E7018   all in 3/32" dia  Rod stored in sealed plastic containers, I don't think I have any moisture issues.I'm building my first fab project, a roll around welding table.  Using 1/8 gauge, 1.5" square tubing.  I'm okay on horizontal / flat butt joints, but having a heck of a time with horizontal corner fillets.   I do plan to file/ grind all the joints 'smooth'   My intent for the fillets is to leave a 'ground' radius fillet (using rattail file and / or 1/4" carbide bit in die grinder)  Corners are tack welded with 6010.  Before I go in to weld the butt joints or fillets, I'm cleaning up the material, adding a slight bevel between the two tubes and adding a ramp to the tack at the corners with a 4-1/2" grinder.  Here is the look I'm trying to achieve.My problem is on my fillets.  Here is a sample of 7018 in DCEP.  I didn't realize that huge void was there until after I took off the slag.  Note: Excess hammering doesn't really make it any better.  Makes me feel better, but doesn't change the weld at all.  Of course I had to grind the whole thing away and start again.I've quit using the 7018.. the slag was so thick I really couldn't tell what was going on.  I also seemed to get the worst burn thru using that rod.  I played around with the 6010 DCEP and 6013 AC DC+/-, seemed to get the best results with 6013 in AC mode.  I did find the 6013 in DCEN good for filling the burn thru holes.  Here is a shot of 6013 AC mode (gone over twice... 2nd time to fill a void at end of the bead, after grinding lead-ins to the void...)I either can't tie in the sides very well, or if if increase the amperage then I get burn thru. I really had trouble even seeing a puddle.  Its almost like I get a 'glowing mass', without liquid puddle for the first 3/8 to 1/2" of the weld bead.Could the cold weather be screwing me up?Comments? Hints?  thanks in advance,zip
Reply:Cold temps won't help, but with that it shouldn't be a major problem. I wouldn't really worry about how acurate the dial on your machine is. I've got an old AC/DC thunderbolt that the dials all messed up on. I usually try and set it close with the dial, then make adjustments based on how it does on a few test pieces. Even on "perfect" machines, each machine will have it's own quirks as to where it wants to be set.My guess is you are either too cold on the amps, moving too fast posibly, or were out of position. The 7018 weld looked good, until you started just welding on the lower plate. Either you started to move too fast and the puddle didn't build up, or you shifted position and pointed the rod more towards the lower piece. You might find a small weave beneficial with the lower amps. It will do 2 things. One it will help keep from blowing right thru the steel because the amps are lower, and it will force you to slow down a bit more to get a better fill. I'd suggest swinging back and forth between the upper and lower pieces in a C pattern or a <<<< shape as you move. In reality you should be able to do this with out a weave, but some people find it easier to slow down when they do this.I always have trouble with 6010. I generally don't use 6013, and use 7014 instead. I just find it welds a bit nicer. On critical projects I'll use the 7018, but I don't use enough usually to warrant keeping it on hand with the storage issues it has. 6013, 7014, 7018 will all tell you when you've got the settings just right. The slag will peal off almost by itself usually. It's a bit tougher with cold metal and short welds. You will eat up some of your amps just bringing the steel up to temp, so even if the settings were perfect earlier, you'll run a bit cold with cold steel. If you have a big propane weed burner, it's easy to warm up the steel a bit, if not you'll just have to compensate a bit with the settings..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Sit back and analyze the joint before you weld it.In your case you're joining two pieces of tubing.  One piece.........the long uncut piece is a solid piece of metal.  The other piece......the cut end has an exposed edge.  I'M REFERING TO YOUR SECOND PIC.  The vertical piece is solid, and the horizontal piece has the exposed edge.What you want to do is to direct the heat into the solid piece by angling the rod more upward and allowing the puddle to flow down into the exposed edge.  Too much heat on the exposed edge and the puddle will drop through  To establish the proper toe line you must pay close attention to the puddle.  There should be no rod manipulation necessary to make this kind of weld, other than a straight drag.  BE THE PUDDLETo get a good view of the puddle drag the rod from left to right, or right to left, in front of you across your field of vision.  Don't try to pull the rod towards you and attempt to see around it, or thru the arc.  You can do that later on when you're more used to what to look for.3/32 7018 will operate fine in the 75-85 amp range for this kind of weld.You also might benefit from switching to a darker shade, an 11.Also, it's been my experience that Excalibur will allow you to see the dividing line between puddle and slag better.  It's something to do with how the flux is formulated I believe.The vertical piece in my pic is 11ga tubing, and the horizontal piece is 14ga tubing.  Straight drag stick weld.I think you're off to a decent start, and with time you'll get there if you care to.  It's all up to you to develop a techique that yields acceptable results. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:As far as a slight weave goes....................I don't feel too comfortable with a weave when using stick, but I do use it when using wire.These are some flux core wire welds on the same materialMy feeling is that the slight weave is necessary with wire to get heat into both toes.  And wire, because of its semi automatic character will automatically increase stickout when passing over the root of the fillet.But here again, I'm spending more time on the vertical piece than on the horizontal piece.  Have to protect that pesky edgePUDDLE PUDDLE PUDDLE PUDDLE Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Some great ideas to try:  I will let you know tomorrow.  I will say, I'm freaked out about burning thru the 'cutoff' short piece of steel again.  Yes, I can further focus the weld puddle on the longer tube.  When you look at the first miter with flux on it, you can see that there was a little bit of adjustment towards the longer tube. When the flux comes off, ugh. The comment about the C shaped / weave pattern really made me think.  I know when I get nervous at welding, my muscle memory goes to a pattern of little circles.  Not quite sure where that came from, but I know that's exactly where I go. I'm guessing I can retrain to do a weave or c-shape.  I will say, I'm terribly nervous about running straight stringers in 3/32"  Not sure why, can't put my finger on it, I just don't feel like that will work.  I start to freak out, and speed up too fast.The comment about darkening up the lens also has made me think a little. Since I've started welding, one of the things I'v had the most trouble with is seeing where I'm going next. I have often found myself going off course.  In fact, I've discovered working in daytime in the open garage entrance gives me lots of light to see where I'm going next.  True, in a fillet, there should be zero chance of screwing that up, tell my hands that, will you?  Your point is that it will clarify the puddle better.  I get that.  Let me play around a little. More to do tomorrow.  Unfortunately the next set-ups are more complicated for me.  I'm ready to do the four short tubes that link square left with square right. The two squares are doggone near perfectly matched.. perhaps a 1/16" offset, and one of the squares doesn't sit perfectly flat on a table...one corner is out of plane approx 1/8" over 30 inches.  I'm thinking I should reduce the # of tacks to a minimum, and hit all eight joints before even attempting to laydown even a single weld line.  The table legs are easily adjustable, so I'll never see a mismatch (that's the theory, anyway.)Again, thanks for the feedback,zip
Reply:If you cant see the puddle, or distinguish the slag from the molten metal than all the advice on rod manipulation in the world isnt going to change a damn thing.  You need to first figure out what your looking at.I would suggest going to a different shade/color lens first.  I prefer a gold lens over the standard green because it makes it much easier for me to see the puddle and slag separately.  They also make silver lenses that work quite well.  When switching to a gold or silver lens you usually want to step up a shade because it will make things brighter.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Hmmm.      I'm still working hard on this issue.   When I said I couldn't see the puddle, that is, there isn't any puddle to see.  Again, I'm stick welding with a 240v AC/DC buzz box.I've decided to go back to basics, and hone my t-joint fillets with flat stock practice steel.  What I've discovered is I'm having a heck of a time just holding an arc.  What I've discovered is when ever the temperature is 20 deg F or colder, I just can't hold a stable arc.    I feel like a raw beginner.  I'm getting scratch, stick, scratch, stick, scratch small arc, sputter, drag, stick, sputter, out. Aaargh!Crank up the amperage. scratch, stick, scratch stick.  Arc, gotta hold the gap really really small, virtually dragging the rod.  The rod sputters out, starts up again, not a stable burn. No way to long arc the puppy, just not possible.  don't dare get gap up to 1/8" for even an instant. Crank up the amperage, repeat. Finally I get a stable arc, but whoa... seems like I have to move VERY fast.  Rod burns up quickly. Get a loud frying bacon noise.  Puddle size is okay, but the fluid seems pretty excited.I've been playing with Mapp gas to preheat the work, improves things somewhat.  To reduce the distractions, I've been testing in 6013 AC mode and 6011 in DCEP mode.  Same general effects in both rods. I'm really thinking its thermal mass in my welder that's causing the difficulty.  I notice that by rod #3, things get a little better.   I'm almost ready to warm up my welder internals with a short stub of a rod, ground it to scrap let it run for 15 or 20 seconds.   Is that dangerous to the equipment? Things get way more stable when ambient temp moves to 40 degrees F.Another note:  I'm wiring capacity constrained.  I've got a detached garage with 12 gauge wiring, I'm running thru a 20A circuit breaker.  Seems fine with 3/32" rod.  I blow the breaker about three or four times in the last six months, generally when I've cranked the output amperage up too far.  Could this affect arc stability?Note: I'm storing the rod in a store bought plastic container with rubber seals.  I'm carefull to minimize container open time.  Rods are stored in cold garage.  Any tips or hints from the pros?thanks, zip.
Reply:By the looks of your welds and what you were saying about "1/8 arc lengths" I'd say that you're trying to use too long an arc length (maybe not with the 6010), in turn making a very agitated, hard to distinguish weldpool, hence why you cant see anything but sparks, have lots of spatter etc...My advice would be to forget about A/C, no point using it if you've got D/C as IMO it gives you a better, more stable arc. You're also trying to use 3 very different electrodes at once, this will most probably hinder your learning, start with the 7018 and learn how to read the puddle, then when you've mastered  that, move on to the 6013, IMO  it's harder to read the puddle with this rod, which is why I'm saying to do it in this order, then move on to the 6010 and learn the different ways to manipulate them. By the way, with both the 6013 and 7018, the last thing you want is a long arc (especially with the 7018), personally I drag both of them with good results. Also, my advice would be not to weave on the thin stuff, although everyone has their own methods that work for them.
Reply:The 20 amp wiring is a BIG part of the issue. I read your comment in another thread about running on that and my first thought was that you were borderline at best. I saw a thread here one time where someone managed to run one of those buzz boxes off a 4500watt gen set, but only with 1/16" or 3/32" rods and claimed it worked. If you looked at the welds you could see they were cold. He had probably more amps input than you do.Everything that sucks out heat will be fighting you. The below 20 F temps both in the steel and the machine, the small wire, small rods, low settings and so on. You open circiut voltage is probably very low, thats why you can't strick the arc well. Input power on transformer machines like that is not linear. That means if you need 50 amps at max you can't get away feeding it 25 amps and expect to get 1/2 the ouput or 15 amps and get 1/4 the output. At one point the transformer will eat up so much power that there is nothing left for output. These machines NEED power, you really can't be stingy and expect results..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWThe 20 amp wiring is a BIG part of the issue. These machines NEED power, you really can't be stingy and expect results.
Reply:Buy a Hobart Handler 187- it will run on the 20amp 240v Circuit you have.Depending on the length of the run you could drop in a 30amp CB on the 12g wiring and be OK due to the duty cycle of the machine.Way more versatile machine with the limited Circuit you have.Solid Wire and gas for sheet and you can always run Fluxcore for the heavier work. The Stick machine you have is really handicapped by the poor circuit you are feeding it so it ain't gonna do ya much good either.That way the investment goes with you to the new place.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:There will be a dark line seperating the puddle from the cooling slag.  It is quite a ways from the actual arc.As you're dragging the electrode/stick, concentrate on the area about 3/16 behind the puddle.  You'll see the dark line.This line will show you the profile of your bead.  Height and width.Once you learn to concentrate on this, instead of the arc(I truly think this is your problem), you'll start to make some nice looking welds.Next thing to focus on is the toes of the weld...........how far you're letting the puddle flow outwards from the center of the arc.Then you'll start seeing the joint ahead of the rod too.There's a ton of stuff to watch all within a 1/2" square area.It doesn't come to you overnight, it takes time.Best way to learn is to run flat stringers(beads on a flat piece of plate), lift the hood and look at them, and learn to move the  rod to make what you really want to see.  Then You'll start to actually watch the puddle.But the first step is to watch the line between dark and light in the puddle, believe me it works."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Another thing to think about...........................earplugsGo ahead and laughThe distraction caused by the sound of the arc can mess you up when you're learning.And BTW............the sound generated by the arc, and the frequency it's at can ruin hearing over time.  So the earplugs are a good idea even when you have your technique down pat."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:The practicer stringers.....................Jam that rod down into the metal, or at least get it tight enough where you can feel the rod dragging on the metal.Don't move the rod left or right, just drag it in a straight line with 7018.  Keep feeding the rod into the puddle as it burns off, don't be afraid to push it.You will learn to watch the puddle, and control the width of the puddle, with travel speed alone.Stick welding requires a lot of skill, and once you get decent at it, the other process's are a piece of cake."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:practice.....oops"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Farmer Sam, You Da Man!     Tried to follow your suggestions.. I made a ton of improvements.  Here's some of what I've learned (to share with future others perhaps in the same struggle.) For whatever reason, I stuck with using 6013 DCEN mode.  Maybe not the best choice, but I wanted to reduce some of the variables. As you remember I kept making fillets that looked like this.I'd have some tie in at edges of puddle no tie in in the bottom of joint.  big Oops.Before I really thought about Sam's note I was deliberately jamming the rod into joint, upper edge of puddle, lower edge of puddle, jam into the corner again. The motion that I was using was jam, move, jam, move, etc...  It worked kinda sorta.  Problem was the fillet was really really wide.  I'm talking nearly 1/2" inch wide and that's using 3/32 rod.  Not clever.  Also very hard to do.  At the end of the burn, I'd get lots of undercut. Wide fillet:I saw a posting on welding web that referred a newby to a couple of exercises using a pencil to simulate arc welding.  One of those drills was a practice keeping a tight arc, with a decreasing length pointer. The example used was a much different rate than I was running. When running wide fillets, I could barely do 1.5 x 2 = 3" of weld bead per welding rod.  It got me thinking.  Then I read FarmerSSam's note a few more times.  I focused on running smaller straight stringers, really focusing on tight arc squeeze to the corner.  In fact I ran the 6013 rod virtually in drag mode.  Its not perfect, as the pictures below will show, but greatly improved.  I found I could now do three fillets on the 1.5" tubing on a single rod.Straight stringer fillet:The other thing that I struggled with was the amperage settings on my welder.  I found a setting that worked well and kept it, totally ignoring the amperage reading on the dial.  I just purchased a clamping ammeter to see what that means.  It turns out the meter won't correctly register the DC output from this welder (I suspect its not really a DC wave form, more a rectified AC output). I was able to pseudo correlate the welder it based on the A/C output using the meter.  Its off pretty far.  Although the dial said 125 Amps (remember I'm using 3/32 6013 DCEN) I think the real # was ~100 Amps or so.  I will say, I had to do 32 T-joint fillets on my welding table project.  I all, I practiced 4 or 5 on scrap metal, then started on my project metal.  I ended up grinding 6 or 7 of them out at least once and starting over.    In all I did 42 fillets on 1.5" square tube.. but I didn't get the narrow stringer fillet thing down pat until the last five fillets or so.  (better late than never, right?)I'm beginning to feel much more confident in my abilities on this one.  Thanks to all for your assistance and advice.--zip
Reply:That last weld looks MUCH better. 6013 IS a drag rod, so don't be afraid to drag it. 7014 is similar. both are good starter rods to learn with.Do yourself a favor and get a small notebook and make some notes on what settings work with what rods of a given size in what position. That way the next time you can look at your notes and then set the machine easily. My buddy's little buzz box has the info for the 1/8" settings written in sharpie on the side for his machine so he always knows what to set it at for what rod he wants to use.Nice job..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:hey all im new to the forum i no this is a really old post but i was hoping somone could tell me the specs on that welder he was using and what kind of plug is on yours mine has a giant 50 amp male plug that i cant find a way to run that in my current position so is there a adapter that would convert it down to a easier to run like on household current?
Reply:Originally Posted by dudeinuyhey all im new to the forum i no this is a really old post but i was hoping somone could tell me the specs on that welder he was using and what kind of plug is on yours mine has a giant 50 amp male plug that i cant find a way to run that in my current position so is there a adapter that would convert it down to a easier to run like on household current?
Reply:Originally Posted by dudeinuyhey all im new to the forum i no this is a really old post but i was hoping somone could tell me the specs on that welder he was using and what kind of plug is on yours mine has a giant 50 amp male plug that i cant find a way to run that in my current position so is there a adapter that would convert it down to a easier to run like on household current?
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammThere will be a dark line seperating the puddle from the cooling slag.  It is quite a ways from the actual arc.As you're dragging the electrode/stick, concentrate on the area about 3/16 behind the puddle.  You'll see the dark line.This line will show you the profile of your bead.  Height and width.Once you learn to concentrate on this, instead of the arc(I truly think this is your problem), you'll start to make some nice looking welds.Next thing to focus on is the toes of the weld...........how far you're letting the puddle flow outwards from the center of the arc.Then you'll start seeing the joint ahead of the rod too.There's a ton of stuff to watch all within a 1/2" square area.It doesn't come to you overnight, it takes time.Best way to learn is to run flat stringers(beads on a flat piece of plate), lift the hood and look at them, and learn to move the  rod to make what you really want to see.  Then You'll start to actually watch the puddle.But the first step is to watch the line between dark and light in the puddle, believe me it works.