Welders to Purchase and use with Genset

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Hello ya'll,New on here, glad I found the site!Now for the questions!Id like to set up a "mobile" welding shop in the back of my property, in a old shop. I don't want to run electrical power to it since I plan to tear it down and build a new shop in a different location. My solution to this is to buy a 10Kw genset from Pulsar, a unit I can source locally in California for 1000.I want to pick up two machines for doing auto fabrication, nothing large scale but jobs would include welding bumpers, roll cages, aluminum beds and headers.Based on previous experience with welders I want a Miller machine however I need to be mindful of my budget so I've been considering Eastwoods welders.Out of the following machines which would be the better way to go?Miller 211, Miller 212 or Eastwood 175 (Mig)Miller Diversion 180, Eastwood 200 (Tig)Thanks
Reply:All the Miller's will run probably off  a 10KW genny, but not all at once. The MM212 will probably be the biggest power hog of the bunch. Without looking up the exact specs, I'd guess it's up close to 30 amps on 230v power, which is close to at least 7KW if not more when you figure in efficiency etc. Also I'm not sure if that 10 KW rating is continuous or surge wattage. A lot of smaller gennys are rated at surge, not continuous wattage. 10 KW surge would probably leave you with about 7 to 8 KW of cont output.Don't know enough about the Eastwoods to comment on input power, but I doubt they are much more power hungry. Personally I wouldn't waste the money on them if you are serious about making a living with a welder. Keep in mind once out of warranty, you won't likely be able to get parts or repairs on an Eastwood imported machine. I believe they take care of warranty issues with replacement units. Consider them "disposable". When they break, expect to simply buy a new machine. It won't be cost effective if it is possible to repair one..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:With a budget and wanting quality I would look into hobart,thermal arc or a used lincoln or miller. I highly recommend hobart their just millers with a white paint jobLincoln pro core 125 14''chop saw7 inch grinder,2-4.5 inch grinders,electric die grinder.Half inch drillAnd alot of hand tools
Reply:What about a engine drive ? Bobcat ? Trailblazer ? Now you would have stick and a portable generator to run the house and or part of shop too. Plus it has enough balls to run a 211 or 212 . Save longer and buy BETTER ! Stick with the proven ones, MILLER ,    LINCOLN ,   and OK HOBART !      As for the others .
Reply:for camparisons sake, i have run my hobart 187 off of a 8250 surge, 5500 continuous gen set with out any problems.  i dont remember how much power it uses wide open, but i'm going to guess around 25 amps.
Reply:I've bought Eastwood, and had good luck for the most part, but like others said if you plan to make a living from welding/fabrication you would probably be better off with name-brand equipment you can get service for.  I use/used Eastwood because I'm a hobbyist and it's ok if I'm without equipment for a month should something break down and need to get it serviced/replaced.  That being said, my MIG175 has worked excellent since the beginning of the year.  The TIG200 AC/DC worked great, but the 1pc power/gas hose is very cheap and will start to dry rot very quickly and leave you with leaks if you plan to use it frequently at high duty cycles.  The machine itself was very tough though.  Arc was good, smooth, even compared to my new HTP Invertig221.   I just sold it for $400 after about two years, and I'm sure it's getting some good use right now.  With a superflex hose it would be much better.  The pedal is too lightweight and moves around a lot unless you prop it somewhere against something heavy.  Again, if you plan to make a living off of it, there are better choices especially with aluminum.  That 17 series torch will not handle AC welding for very long at all.  200A AC with a -3 clearance (about 65% EN) will have it boiling your skin off in just a little while.  Not trying to bash Eastwood at all, because they have taken care of any issues I have had with it (including sending me a brand new torch/cable). 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Why not a engine drive with a wire feeder?PROUD   AMERICAN
Reply:Originally Posted by usmcpsdI want to pick up two machines for doing auto fabrication, nothing large scale but jobs would include welding bumpers, roll cages, aluminum beds and headers.Out of the following machines which would be the better way to go?Miller 211, Miller 212 or Eastwood 175 (Mig)Miller Diversion 180, Eastwood 200 (Tig)Thanks
Reply:@ usmcpsd - Welcome.  +10 on what Drf255 and Fletcher94 stated.  Dial in your requirements.  IF "mobile" welding required, THEN jam a used Miller Trailblazer.  No question.  You can "grow" with that rig and rip most all welding/cutting processes (e.g. SMAW, MIG, TIG, plasma, CAC-A) under the sun.  Would not recommend buying a non-welder 10kW genset and then use her to power your MIG machines for production work.  A Trailblazer + Miller/Lincoln Suitcase wire feed would give you with an arsenal of options for steel work using GMAW, FCAW-G, and FCAW-S processes.  The money you would spend buying the Pulsar and Machine 1 and Machine 2 would probably rival the cost for the Trailblazer + Suitcase option.  Won't comment of roll cages and aluminum work.  A horse of a different color."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1What about a engine drive ? Bobcat ? Trailblazer ? Now you would have stick and a portable generator to run the house and or part of shop too. Plus it has enough balls to run a 211 or 212 . Save longer and buy BETTER ! Stick with the proven ones, MILLER ,    LINCOLN ,   and OK HOBART !      As for the others .
Reply:alright let me give ya'll some more background and answer some questions...My welding experience come from working for Diamler Trucks North America (Freightliner/Western Star/Mercedez) i.e. Mercedes Benz as a prototype fabrication technician, basically doing machining and welding. At the shop, the majority of machines we had were the expensive Millers, and I was proficient at using the spool-gun, mig, tig (stainless/aluminum). My stick experience comes from repairing countless pieces of machinery on various farms and ranches. That was all before I signed myself up for the USMC.The reason I want a Genset to run the welder off of, is to use in my shop on my new property which is 200yds from my main breaker box. The shop isnt wired, and cannot be wired or at least pass inspection if I had a 100 amp box installed, since the shop itself isnt permitted (thanks to previous owner). The Genset for the welders wouldnt be a permanent fixture, but until I get the clearance to build a new 30x60 shop, I'll have to make due with a genset.The reason I wanted a Genset and various welders vs. a engine driven welder, is it seemed like the simplest option, since I didnt need to have generator/welder combo for the long haul. I'm also not that familiar with the various engine driven welders, and how to outfit them to run the various processes i.e. tig and mig. My main concerns are cost and durability, in my current area even a used Bobcat sells for close to the same price as a new machine.I'd figure I'd ask questions on this forum to further my metal fabrication knowledge and definitely to learn how to set-up my own shop since I've never had to do it before.Thanks
Reply:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ighlight=DennyScroll down to post # 6Good info on gensets and welding machines.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Down side of dedicated genny vs engine drives is that many mid to large welders need more draw than the typical small genny can deliver. A transformer stick machine like an AC 225 will want close to 15 KW of continuous power to run at full capacity.  With that you are talking only a 50 amp draw @ 230v. You'd need even more juice to run bigger stick or tig units. Big gennys like this are NOT inexpensive on average new. On the other hand a small Bobcat can run rings around what you can weld with a stand alone machine off a similarly priced stand alone genny. There are a few down sides to this but we can go into them later if need be.I think your use of the word "mobile" confused a bunch of guys. We frequently get guys who want to start small shop businesses with the plan to grow it into a mobile business. Typically they want to go "cheap" and pick up shop machines with the intention of running them in the field off a genny to "save" money. It doesn't work that way unfortunately.You really need to be looking at a minimum of a 10kw plus continuous output genny, and bigger is better with this. A 25 KW unit would not be unreasonable. However most good size genny run close to $1K per KW, so you are looking at a significant investment unless you can locate a used unit. One up side is most bigger units tend to be quieter than smaller ones. The 35KW diesel that was being used as temporary site power on the job next to me after Sandy, ran quieter than any of the smaller sub 10KW units in the area..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I have the last model miller bobcat (8000 watts aux power) it is not enough to run some of my shop welders or plasma.  Their new model however has a 10,000 watt generator, so it might work.  I also have a newer miller trailblazer with a 10,000 watt generator.  It will run everything in the shop if I need it to.  I have a wire feed suitcase and a spool gun for it, also a tig and arcair attachment.  The only thing I don't like about it is no AC weld output, so to tig aluminum I use the aux power to plug in a shop machine. So I'm not sure a genset under 10W will run all your future needs. Most larger equipment seems to have a 50 amp plug.
Reply:About 15 years ago we tried several smaller generators to power pumps, welders,air compressors etc for a portable site similar to what you are describing . Our group finally came up with a diesel powered 55kw 100 % duty cycle generator to adequately work everything.   We even tried several small portable welders and just wasn't enough surge power. You might find and older standby generator non tier 3 or tier 4 .   I have heard of some companies replacing some of their gensets to meet tighter standards. I understand what you are trying to do.  However if you could find an engine powered welder that would do what you want and pull your chop saws ,grinders etc off the aux power you may be money ahead. For my 25 cents worth of experience. Good luck