Automotive fabrication

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So I've been doing a bunch of research on buying my first welder and I'm mainly interested in using a mig welder since they're the easiest to learn. I will be using this for automotive repair and fabrication in my garage at home. While I understand that most hobbyist should go with a hobbyist welder I would like to purchase a professional-grade Miller product but still want to discuss choosing the correct welder. Over the course of my research many of you have suggested in one of my past threads that I should get a Millermatic 211 since it's a dual voltage machine and will do pretty much anything up to 3/8" thick steel. While I very much appreciate your help and suggestions I can't purchase with confidence till I discuss this more. I've been watching Miller's videos on YouTube and I came across a video where they were fabricating and welding custom engine mounts for a custom car and they were using a Millermatic 212 and now I'm second guessing if I should get the 212 or the 211 lol. Not sure if Miller's trying to make it seem like I need a 212 because they say that it will provide a stronger weld but on Miller's web site it seems to weld up to 3/8" just like the 211 the only difference is that the 211 would be slower.Here's the video in question-- Also if any of you are experienced auto body technicians or have any experience at all in this area could you please tell me what the thickest material I will probably ever run into on a car would be? I know I'm asking a lot of questions but hopefully they're not out of the realm of possibility to be answered.Last edited by apierce1289; 05-26-2015 at 07:28 PM.
Reply:I've been using this chart to try and get the best one but still a little bit confusing--The mm211, 212 seem to be neck and neck when hooked to 230v. Aside from the duty cycle and the 211 being 10 amps less.Last edited by apierce1289; 05-26-2015 at 07:33 PM.
Reply:I don’t see how you can go wrong with either one. I’ve never run the 212, but last summer I got to run a 211. Really sweet arc! Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:212 has alot better duty cycle. You could weld any thickness with that welder, you'll just have to make multiple passes
Reply:If you think you want/need portability get the 211.  If you will NEVER move it from your shop/garage/house get the 212.  Beyond that they are similar machines save for the duty cycle, but for general automotive use IMO that would never come into play.If I was buying a mig welder today I would be hard pressed to NOT look at the 252 and be done with it forever and never wonder "do I have enough machine for that".ETA: 212/252 can take the 12" 33lb spools of wire where as the 211 can only take the 10lb 8" spools.  Dont know if thats important to you or not.Last edited by rjacobs; 05-26-2015 at 09:28 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by rjacobsIf you think you want/need portability get the 211.  If you will NEVER move it from your shop/garage/house get the 212.  Beyond that they are similar machines save for the duty cycle, but for general automotive use IMO that would never come into play.If I was buying a mig welder today I would be hard pressed to NOT look at the 252 and be done with it forever and never wonder "do I have enough machine for that".ETA: 212/252 can take the 12" 33lb spools of wire where as the 211 can only take the 10lb 8" spools.  Dont know if thats important to you or not.
Reply:Originally Posted by apierce1289Isn't it the bigger the wire spool the cheaper they are so you save money if you can buy heavier spools of wire I think I read that somewhere.
Reply:If you are only looking to do home hobby auto work, there is no pressing reason to go past the 211.  It  has all the power you need to do just about anything on a car.Working in the auto body shop in HS and college, we never had anything bigger than a lincoln 140.  The desire for light weight on cars is counter to using heavy steel.  Dont recall anything over 1/4" accept on the occasional wrecker frame work.Save the money on the welder and spend it on a good shield and plenty of scrap for practice.   Maybe even a class.If you are going to build a monster truck, forget everything i said and get the 252.Multimatic 200Ellis 1800Haberle S225 9" cold sawMM 300;  Spoolmate 30A w/ WC-24TB 302GDynasty 280 DX Tigrunner
Reply:The 211 is more than enough for what you're going to be doing. I rented a MM211 to try out before purchasing a 252 and it ran 1/4" all day without issue and I didn't feel like I was overworking the machine. Personally, if I was even thinking of buying the 212 I would just buy the 252 and be done with it. I purchased a 252 last year and it welds better than every machine I use at work. The whole Millermatic line is pretty stout.
Reply:The MM212 weighs 180lbs without wire. The MM211 weighs 75lbs. This is your first welder, go with the 211 and use the leftover money to buy consumables and accessories. Unless you're welding all day everyday, for doing what I envision you doing a 12.5lb spool of 0.023" or 0.030" will last you. I welded up an entire floor plan, something like 150-200 3/8" plug welds and dont think i used more than 1 small 2 lb spool of 0.030", went on to install subframe connectors and still had wire left. There is no reason to spend an extra $700-1000 or whatever to get the 212 for what you're doing. If you were going to get into heavier fab, then maybe the 252 would be the next step up if you were regularly doing joints thicker than 1/4", or wanted to weld with spray transfer. But you will be more than happy with the 211.
Reply:Originally Posted by JieveThe MM212 weighs 180lbs without wire. The MM211 weighs 75lbs. This is your first welder, go with the 211 and use the leftover money to buy consumables and accessories. Unless you're welding all day everyday, for doing what I envision you doing a 12.5lb spool of 0.023" or 0.030" will last you. I welded up an entire floor plan, something like 150-200 3/8" plug welds and dont think i used more than 1 small 2 lb spool of 0.030", went on to install subframe connectors and still had wire left. There is no reason to spend an extra $700-1000 or whatever to get the 212 for what you're doing. If you were going to get into heavier fab, then maybe the 252 would be the next step up if you were regularly doing joints thicker than 1/4", or wanted to weld with spray transfer. But you will be more than happy with the 211.
Reply:Just re-read your question, and regarding auto body metal thickness, I've been working on and off for a number of years on a classic mustang restoration. Pretty much all sheet metal on that car is 20 gauge, with the exception of the shock towers, front strut rod supports and torque boxes which are 14 gauge. I think the thickest thing I ever welded on that car were the brackets for the aftermarket sub-frame connectors, which were something like 1/8" or 3/16" thick. But there's hardly a single piece of stock metal on that car over 14 gauge and most of it is way thinner. I think that's probably the case for most cars. If you're doing sheet metal repair, even something like the MM141 would work just fine. For things like custom motor mounts, I'd say the MM211 will definitely do more than you need.
Reply:Miller has a super rebate on the 211 now '' Get a free Spoolmate™ 100 spool gun and a Build with Blue™ rebate of up to $400 when you buy a Millermatic® 211 Auto-Set™ with MVP™ welder''  That's a pretty good start. http://www.millerwelds.com/products/special-offers.htmlWAIT , there is more , $200.00 rebate machine only and $400.00 with additional purchase. http://www.millerwelds.com/landing/b...content=onlineThat may make deciding easier. As for going to the 212, as stated, I would skip it and go to the 252.
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1Miller has a super rebate on the 211 now '' Get a free Spoolmate™ 100 spool gun and a Build with Blue™ rebate of up to $400 when you buy a Millermatic® 211 Auto-Set™ with MVP™ welder''  That's a pretty good start. http://www.millerwelds.com/products/special-offers.htmlWAIT , there is more , $200.00 rebate machine only and $400.00 with additional purchase. http://www.millerwelds.com/landing/b...content=onlineThat may make deciding easier. As for going to the 212, as stated, I would skip it and go to the 252.
Reply:Let's say you are welding at 130 amps:With the 211, according to the specs, you are capable of welding for 3 minutes out of 10, resting the machine 7 minutes out of 10.With the 212, according to their spec sheet, you should be able to weld virtually non-stop at that same output.Doing most automotive work, I can not envision a scenario where you will need the added duty cycle of the 212.The 211 should do fine.If you were doing production work, welding out 10" pipe, you might need the 212.Hobart Beta-Mig 2511972 Miller AEAD-200LEMiller 250 TwinNorthern Ind. Hybrid 200Longevity Stick 140Longevity Migweld 200SThermal Arc Pak 3XR
Reply:The 252 is a freaking sweet machine, such an incredibly smooth arc.  The 212 is way more stout than the 211, the only reason to get the 211 would be the dual voltage.  You may think 'just' automotive, but there is always need for more power.  Think about building a press brake to make brackets or jigs or stuff like that.  Just because you are doing automotive work, doesn't mean you can't use a bigger welder.  I would buy the 252 and be done for a lifetime.  Buy once, cry once, you won't regret it.FWIW, Zoro tools sporadically has 30% off coupons.  Last time I checked on sale, the 252 was 1800 shipped to my house...
Reply:$1800 for the millermatic 252?You guys need to stop posting stuff like this where I can read it.... Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Yea, it's silly.  I was so close to pulling the trigger last time but my wife would have killed me.  They let you use the 30% coupon codes on the Miller welders they carry, prices aren't so good normally, but on a discount like that, they kill anybody else...and I'm in Ca and that was with sales tax, other states don't pay tax because I think Zoro is only in Ca...
Reply:Does Miller sell manufacturer refurbished units? I'd buy a refurbished mm211 if I could buy it straight from them.