Which process for self-taught beginner?

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I'm in the market for a hobby welder.I will be using it for general light-duty hobby stuff, (model making) probably no more than 1/4".I will not be building grills, trailers etc.I have been researching this for days, and I'm still going around in circles.I am going to try to get some lessons, but due to money and time constraints, it's not going to happen in the immediate future.My plan, then, is to watch a load of youtube tutorials, read some books, buy a welder, and have at it.This is what I did with my lathe, and I took to it like a duck to water.I'm no machinist, but I'm good enough for what I need to do on a lathe.This is the kind of level I want to achieve with welding - get good enough for my hobby needs, but not necessarily have it as a hobby in itself.I've narrowed it down to two processes; MIG or stick.If I go with MIG, I will be limited to flux core for two reasons; firstly, I will be welding outside in my backyard exclusively, and secondly, my rental agreement prohibits storage of compressed gasses in my apartment (except aerosol cans of course).The simplicity of flux core is very attractive to me, but I am somewhat turned off by the complexity of the machines themselves (more to go wrong).Since I will have to use flux cored wire, the cleanliness of MIG is moot.Stick on the other hand really interests me.I like the idea of a wide choice of electrodes, and the rugged simplicity of the machines themselves.There is also something else that I can't quite put my finger on about stick that makes me prefer the idea of it over wire-feed.So my head is telling me to go with flux core, but my heart is telling me that I want to stick weld Would you recommend stick for a reasonably mechanically adept beginner, or should I go with flux core?
Reply:I have no idea what you want to weld, so I can't really point you in the right direction. Also from your previous posts I assume you will insist the machine is inexpensive, and 110v powered. That is going to rule out a lot of small stick machines as they really don't work very well with the limited 110v input. That may simply force you into a FC wire machine.If you'd tell us more about what you want to weld, what your budget is, and if you can run 230v say thru an extension cord, we can help you narrow down your choices..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesbeatSo my head is telling me to go with flux core, but my heart is telling me that I want to stick weld Would you recommend stick for a reasonably mechanically adept beginner, or should I go with flux core?
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPWhy not go with both? This is a really good set up for a hobby welder. One of the best stick welders ever made. Hook up an LN-25, and you can run self shielded flux core wire too.
Reply:Stick AND flux core http://store.cyberweld.com/twfa14miwew1.htmlOr even better http://store.cyberweld.com/tharcfa21miw.htmlDave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI have no idea what you want to weld, so I can't really point you in the right direction. Also from your previous posts I assume you will insist the machine is inexpensive, and 110v powered. That is going to rule out a lot of small stick machines as they really don't work very well with the limited 110v input. That may simply force you into a FC wire machine.If you'd tell us more about what you want to weld, what your budget is, and if you can run 230v say thru an extension cord, we can help you narrow down your choices.
Reply:Most of that stuff is too small for stick or flux core - learn to tig and you'll enjoy the heck out of it.And definitely get one with a foot control.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:TIG? Come on now, baby steps Plus, I can't store compressed gasses where I currently live.If I bought a suitable stick welder, I could use it for TIG one day though, right?
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesbeatIt doesn't have to be as inexpensive as I was talking about in my previous thread, because I sold something.Budget is $300-$400, not including sundries such as a helmet, gloves, protective clothing etc which I have already purchased.I was a little vague in my description of the possible uses because I don't have anything specific that I want to use it for, just a list of random projects that I have accumulated that could benefit from welding.Off the top of my head;A tang for a black powder pistol.A trigger guard for a sxs double shotgun.Weld over a blind pin securing a muzzle brake.Make a couple of bits and bobs for my lathe.Carriage (and wheels) for a small black powder cannon.Various hardware and accessories for my 1" bore cannon.So basically light duty hobby/model making stuff.I'm not interested in making a barbecue, fixing cars or making a trailer etc.Thank you for reminding me about the 110v thing.I definitely should have mentioned that I only have access to 110v 20A outlets.I live in a rented home, so I can't change the wiring.I have no dryer socket, and my stove is wired with some sort of metal junction box thing.I also live on the upper floor, so it would be way too far to trail an extension lead to my stove, even if it had an outlet.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesbeatTIG? Come on now, baby steps Plus, I can't store compressed gasses where I currently live.If I bought a suitable stick welder, I could use it for TIG one day though, right?
Reply:Really?I'll concede to the trigger guard, but nothing else on that list is under 1/8".The pistol tang is going to be a slice of 1/8" angle with a 1/8" section welded on to extend it.The muzzle brake just needs a blob of weld to cover a 1/8" blind pin hole.The lathe steady rest will be pretty substantial, maybe some 5/16" key stock I have, maybe even thicker.I may also need to extend a 1/2" drill bit.The (naval style) cannon carriage will be at least 1/4" stock, possibly 5/16" (this is for added weight to make recoil more realistic. Real ones are wood).The (field carriage) cannon wheels will be roughly 7" to 8" in diameter, again a minimum of 1/4" thick, and with 1/4" spokes.The cannon hardware (worm, cap squares) will be 1/8" thick.Is that really too thin for flux core, or say a 1/16" stick?I was actually a little concerned that, if anything, I would have too little heat for some of those jobs.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWYes you can use a DC stick welder to do basic tig. An AC stick machine won't help with this, the one you get must be capable of doing DC stick. AC/DC will work since it will do DC. However, that will not give you a foot control like Dave mentioned. You will really want this to have fine control over your arc for much of the stuff you mentioned. You could buy a dedicated tig machine and use it for stick. Down side is tig machines in your price range are all going to be big, heavy and run off 230v power.Small 110v powered tig machines are available. Problem is most don't allow you to use a remote pedal in that lower price range. I've taught plenty of guys who can't weld to tig weld. It takes longer because it requires more control over your variables, but it's not impossible. It does help to have someone who knows what they are doing watch you and make pointers on how to improve. One option might be too look and see if any classes are offered near you. You can start out learning the basics, and if you apply yourself, you may be able to do a few of your projects by the end of class. That will depend a lot on you and how hard you work at it. It's really all about breaking it down to individual pieces and learning to control your variables. Once you can do that, you start putting the pieces together and build from there. The compressed gas part is going to be the big sticker. You might be able to talk your landlord into allowing you to have a small cylinder. Argon used for tig is an inert gas, so there's no issue with fires and so on. Gas cylinders don't explode like many think they do in a fire either. They com equipped with safety valves that open and safely vent the contents if the pressure becomes to high. They vent well below the burst pressure on the cylinder. They can take off like a rocket if the valve gets sheared off, but that shouldn't happen if you keep them capped when not in use, and keep them strapped in an upright position so they can't topple over. Most strap them to their cart. In fact, argon can be used laying down if you want to, so that makes it even less likely to get knocked over. A bit of gentle education might get you past this issue. Most people are just scared of the movie hype and don't understand reality at all.
Reply:can you store the C25 or argon outside somewhere safe?  Problem solved. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Nowhere on the property.Can't even have a gas grill (not that I'd want one...)
Reply:Well, since you rent from a nameless, faceless, company - when will the invisible see your tank? I know, I'm a rebel Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:When I'm welding with it in the backyard
Reply:Time for an enclosed cart. .No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWTime for an enclosed cart.
Reply:Maybe try and find a MILLER PASSPORT .
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1Maybe try and find a MILLER PASSPORT .
Reply:https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=0qg-TcCHRh0jody's review of the miller passport and hobart trek180
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesbeatThank you for reminding me about the 110v thing.I definitely should have mentioned that I only have access to 110v 20A outlets.I live in a rented home, so I can't change the wiring.I have no dryer socket, and my stove is wired with some sort of metal junction box thing.I also live on the upper floor, so it would be way too far to trail an extension lead to my stove, even if it had an outlet.
Reply:There is a 20A outlet outside where I will be welding.
Reply:yer pretty much screwed where yo live now- 'tis apt life.You can try one of the HF 120v Inverter stick machines or a Wire feeder with Flux core wire.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Inverter stick machinehttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...of)&highlight=Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridgewhat if you don't compress it and store it in a large 125 cu.ft rubber balloon?  Squeeze as necessary.   1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:20 amp breaker outside ? I would find someone that has a 110 volt machine and ask them to bring it over for a test run. Maybe post your location and a member maybe near you to help.
Reply:welding the muzzle brake may ruin the barrelbut when you extend the 1/2 drill bit you can ream the barrel out real good...
Reply:How would installing the muzzle brake ruin my barrel?
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesbeatHow would installing the muzzle brake ruin my barrel?
Reply:Well, after reading some grudgingly positive things about it, I plumped for the Harbor Freight 80A inverter.I just tried it out, and I'm delighted It seems to have enough power for what I want to do, and it didn't burn through some 1/8" angle that I was practicing on.These low-powered welders do have a narrow range in which they are useful, but after playing around with it, I believe that most of the projects I have in mind will fall within this range.I can definitely see how this welder would be practically useless for car body work or making a trailer, but that isn't the type of work I'm interested in doing.I found it surprisingly easy to strike and maintain an arc. I'm hooked I have spent many hours watching and rewatching youtube tutorials, and that definitely helped.I believe chucke2009 is a member here, so if you're reading this, thanks!As to the muzzle brake, I tried laying down some little blobs of weld on the piece of angle with a 1/16" electrode, and it seemed to work ok.I don't think there's even a remote chance that it will burn through the rather thick part of the brake containing the pin.On the other hand, the ATF-mandated high temperature silver solder (actually a braze) requires heating the parts to a red heat, which I'm not comfortable with.A welded-over blind pin is the preferred method nowadays, though I believe this is more to do with the fact that it is relatively easy to remove the brake without damaging the barrel unlike the silver solder method.Last edited by jamesbeat; 05-22-2015 at 08:17 PM.
Reply:See if someone has a shop in your area that needs a little help and see if they have a upstairs apartment. No compressed gasses? How can they attract clients there? Must be a college town. What kind of fun can you have in a place with no real electricity or compressed gasses? If it were not a faceless corporation I would tell you to argue that welding can be a very lucrative trade and could help you pay their rent more easily, but that is not going to work either.SA-250 TMDSquarewave 200Thunderbolt AC/DC1951 G.E. welder
Reply:It's a converted house.It's privately owned, but the guy who owns it rents through an agency, which makes a lot of sense.Definitely not a student area, but I guess it could be described as a 'professional' area. Most who live here commute to the city (not me though).The power is fine. I am burning 1/16" electrodes at around 40-45A, so the 110v 20A outlet is working fine.I'm really happy with my welder, and no longer intimidated by stick.I'm so glad I didn't go for a flux cored welder, I can already tell stick is my 'thing'.It's going to take a lot of practice before I can make decent welds, but I'm having a lot of fun learning.Last edited by jamesbeat; 05-22-2015 at 08:57 PM.
Reply:So you're not allowed to have a fire extinguisher either? A lot of them are pressurized. Don't assume the landlord is hard to deal with just cause it's a big corporation.
Reply:There are exceptions for fire extinguishers and normal household aerosol sprays.They probably don't want people storing propane tanks and don't want to get into detailed arguments with people over which compressed gasses are safe.I have no objections. My apartment is reasonably priced and well maintained.My landlord is courteous, and I have been living happily here for six years without incident.I don't think TIG is something I should attempt until I have some experience anyway.I'm having enough trouble getting straight welds as it is, although they were pretty straight by the tenth rod or so.Last edited by jamesbeat; 05-22-2015 at 09:46 PM.
Reply:So what part of the country are you in that you have to pin and weld flashhiders. Me, I spend most of my time cutting those off. I build FAL riles as a hobby and none of that is required here. And I have seen some really ugly pin job welds.
Reply:The brake will be acting as a barrel extension to bring it up to the legal length of 16", which is why it has to be permanently attached.The 'done thing' is to leave the weld visible rather than blend it in, so that an ATF agent can clearly see that it has indeed been welded over.Having your rifle inspected by an ATF agent is an admittedly unlikely scenario, but better to be safe in these kinds of situations.Last edited by jamesbeat; 05-22-2015 at 11:06 PM.
Reply:Ah, I get that one.
Reply:I am glad you got a machine. Good luck with all of your projects.SA-250 TMDSquarewave 200Thunderbolt AC/DC1951 G.E. welder
Reply:6 years rent money would buy a few acres and pay for a small house.Forget the welding for a while and get onto your own place.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmer376 years rent money would buy a few acres and pay for a small house.Forget the welding for a while and get onto your own place.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesbeatWhen I started this thread and asked what I thought was a straightforward question (stick or flux core for a self taught beginner), I was unprepared for the advice to jump straight into TIG.I have to say though, that this is the most off-the-wall reply so far Please do not mistake my lack of welding knowledge for a lack of competence at life in general I have of course already considered a mortgage.It is not as easy as it once was for the working man to obtain one.I don't know which state you live in, but six year's rent would not even buy a one-bedroom apartment here.Let me guess: the next answer will be to move to a different state?
Reply:New York.We're going to move to a different state as soon as we are able, but it's because of taxes, weather, firearms laws, and the ridiculous property prices, not Argon