Question on Underwater Welding Schools

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I would appreciate feedback / recommendations on commercial underwater welding schools from people who actually attended the school(s). Thank you.
Reply:You do realize that underwater welding is just part of what you go to school for right? You go to school to become a commercial diver and welding underwater is just a tiny part of what you learn.In reality there is very little under water welding done on average. Many never weld again once out of school. Most stuff is welded top side and assembled underwater with bolts. You get a better job faster that way. Underwater burning is a bit more common as a fast way to take things apart underwater. Most connections are rusted solid and covered in sea growth. It takes just a few minutes to burn thru a bolt where trying to unscrew it could be a futile effort.Keep in mind this is NOT typical Scuba diving. Many times projects are done in zero vis in less than favorable conditions. If you are at all claustrophobic, this isn't for you. If you have ever seen Men of Honor, the underwater test Bashir has to take is shown in positively wonderful conditions. I've been on jobs where the water was so black a HID light simply disappeared in 6" of water. No glow, no dim light, it looked like some one had simply cut the power..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWYou do realize that underwater welding is just part of what you go to school for right? You go to school to become a commercial diver and welding underwater is just a tiny part of what you learn.In reality there is very little under water welding done on average. Many never weld again once out of school. Most stuff is welded top side and assembled underwater with bolts. You get a better job faster that way. Underwater burning is a bit more common as a fast way to take things apart underwater. Most connections are rusted solid and covered in sea growth. It takes just a few minutes to burn thru a bolt where trying to unscrew it could be a futile effort.Keep in mind this is NOT typical Scuba diving. Many times projects are done in zero vis in less than favorable conditions. If you are at all claustrophobic, this isn't for you. If you have ever seen Men of Honor, the underwater test Bashir has to take is shown in positively wonderful conditions. I've been on jobs where the water was so black a HID light simply disappeared in 6" of water. No glow, no dim light, it looked like some one had simply cut the power.
Reply:It's been years since I was heavily involved in any of this and the one school I was most familiar with is the one in Camden NJ, across the river from where I live.I came into the industry in an "odd" way. I'm CCR, full cave and trimix certified. As such I'm good at swimming into tight confined spaces with out ruining the visibility when it's all silted up, something not many commercial divers do well. That made me a good candidate for going under piers and wharfs and other places with the camera so the inspectors could see what was going on.A great deal of what we did was basic in water repairs, replacing zincs or damaged props and so on, water craft recovery when the idiots sank their pleasure boats in the summer, refloating damaged barges, bridge and pier inspections, waste water and municipal water plants, oil abatement, standing by as safety divers ( read body recovery) if some one fell off the bridges over the Delaware when work was going on and so on. A lot of this is what the average commercial diver does usually. Work on rigs is what most people think of, but those jobs are few and far between. To get one you often can spend years tending hoses and doing deck work before you really get to do much diving.Keep in mind those big money jobs are very hard on the body. You seldom see old commercial divers doing that sort of work. The job chews you up and spits you out. The "old" guys usually move up into management, or gravitate towards easier work in shallower water on rivers and in port.One of the guys I worked with had a mutual friend who wanted to try out being a commercial diver. He got to spend 16 hours one night in February wading around up to his chest in an old 1/2 submerged barge in his suit with a can of epoxy looking for leaks with a flashlight in the dark, as we pumped down the barge. For a "break" he got to stand up on the dock in 14 deg weather and tend lines and play go-fer for the guys jetting the mud out from under the barge so we could raise it to clear the dock and so they could tow it away to scrap it..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Welcome!GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:I would think the hard part would be keeping the 7018 dry,
Reply:Ah DSW you must be familiar with my old friends at Marvel .
Reply:Yes I worked for a couple of years with Geoff Grahm at Marvel for a bit part time. I helped with classes, did some fills and service work in the back and worked the booth every year at BTS. Shame they aren't around any longer, though the owner made a mint when he sold out. The other company had no real interest in the dive end of the business, all they wanted was the military/ police connections that were in competition with their company. I'd probably still be working there with Geoff if Marvel was still in business. After Marvel closed I helped Erin who used to be in their commercial end after she opened up her shop, but travel to her place just was too much of a problem for the little bit I could work at the time.I understand the guy who owned Marvel reached the end of his noncompetition clause a few years back ( not that it really mattered after the other company he sold to went belly up) and has opened up a new location selling commercial equipment, but I haven't been as involved in diving for the last few years..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Hello Jonathan, I have not attended any diving schools, however, I have had students complete our program and go on to attend some and have also had students from some of those schools attend our school. Here are a few thoughts that were shared with me by them. Divers Institute in Seattle is the school of which I have had the most contact with, I have toured their facilities and seen how they operate as well as having students attend their program, have also had the reverse. Their main focus is not underwater diving, instead, that is just a portion of what they generally teach and instruct their students on. This goes along with what DSW has already shared with you. World events play heavily on how much work there is for those trained in underwater skills. After Hurricane Katrina there was a huge amount of underwater work available (all sort of underwater salvage, repair, and any number of other things needing done). When 9/11 happened the amount of underwater inspection increased tenfold (think in terms of ships, ferries, and other seagoing vessels entering and leaving port and the need to inspect them for explosives or other dangerous planted cargoes by saboteurs). When the BP disaster occurred in the gulf there was a considerable amount of underwater work that became associated with that occurrence. So there will be no shortage of work. Now to the realities of some of what you can experience as a part of that trade: Unless the sun, stars, and all of the moons are aligned correctly you will generally not leave a school and immediately jump into making the "big bucks", instead, you will have to work your way up. This means that you may be a topside hand for a year or more before you even begin diving. Then when you do dive you may have to compete for the dives that come up, this is normally according to the pecking order of those that are among your crew. The senior members will probably have first choice and they will probably take the dives that pay the most (determined by depth, deeper more money, shallower, less money). This might not be the scenario for all of the diving being done, yet, from my information this is somewhat of an industry standard particularly in the Gulf areas and around Florida.The scenario that I have described above is just a very small part of the overall industry that encompasses underwater skills. Anywhere that there is water could provide a need for underwater welding, inspection, mechanical repairs, recovery of goods, or any number of other things. One of our ex-students owns a company that he operates out of Portland, Ore. where he inspects fiber optic cables that go under the Willamette River. He also inspects various types of under-water piping systems to monitor them for leakage in both the Columbia and Willamette River and other waterways in that area. If you have an opportunity go to any of the industries that are associated with waterways in your area and start inquiring of them about possibilities and what's going on. We have another ex-student who is in the middle of a 5-year stint in Mexico City where they are building a deep, long, tunnel and he is a part of that. Believe it or not, his diver's training/experience is what qualifies him to work on this project because even though the work is not underwater it requires the same considerations with regard to depth and experiencing the "bends" as what a diver would, so he has to monitor time and utilize an de-compression chamber the same as a diver. He works on the drill head for this tunnel boring project. Another consideration is age: this type of work is a young man's game and if you are young that is certainly a plus, if you are older you might find that the rigors of what is demanded of your body might make this a more short-term career. We were told by the folks at Divers Institute that 32+ might be pushing the age limit.Good luck on your endeavor and best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Thank you for all the information - very helpful. Would you advise 1st attending training and obtain welding certifications  from a welding school (such as welding school affiliated with a community college program) and then attend school/training program specifically for underwater welding? Any suggestions on underwater welding schools would be helpful. The one I was looking at is about $30k for 16 wks which seems like a short period of time to learn welding, commercial diving and obtain certifications.... plus a lot of money. Which welding program were you referring to in your note above (AEVALD)? Thanks.
Reply:Hello Jonathan, the program that I have had some connections with is the Divers Institute in Seattle, WA. Many of these programs will hopefully tell you to get as much top-side welding under your belt as you can before you attempt to replicate that underwater. Many of the basics of welding will apply in either environment but it is much easier and less expensive to perfect a lot of the welding skills above water. If you have a particular area of expertise or a geographical area that you are interested in working in or around try to make some contacts with possible employers and query them about whether they have preferences for hiring people from a specific school/program or otherwise. See if you can utilize Facebook or some of the other social media to connect with current students or past students of the various schools you've looked at and inquire about their experiences, both good and bad. This may save you some disappointment and heartache when you pull the trigger and move forward with your career goals. As to Divers Institute of Seattle, the last that I remember their cost was around $17,000 for 7 months or something of that nature, here again, check with them to get all of the specifics. One possible benefit to considering them is due to geographical location. They are located on Lake Washington, it is cold, thus they do a lot of their training with heated suits as well as dry suits. This additional condition might provide you with another tool to bring to the table when you are competing for work as possibly other programs don't train with these types of equipment. Good luck and best regards, AllanLast edited by aevald; 12-31-2014 at 07:28 PM.aevald
Reply:A friend of mine went to the College of Oceaneering in San Diego Ca. He has been in the business now for about 15 years. You may want to look into that school as well.  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by aevaldthis type of work is a young man's game and if you are young that is certainly a plus, if you are older you might find that the rigors of what is demanded of your body might make this a more short-term career. We were told by the folks at Divers Institute that 32+ might be pushing the age limit.
Reply:Thanks for all the great feedback and advice. Looks like I will work on getting into a welding school locally first then pursue underwater welding and diving.Has anyone had experience with CDA in Jacksonville for commercial underwater welding? I am located closer to Jacksonville than Seattle.
Reply:I don't understand how you can just take a course(s) for a several month's or even a year and be qualified to do underwater welding because you passed a test in controlled conditions? Welding in a nice clean shop with everything at your disposal takes years to master and normally you go through an apprenticeship before you're certified. I think it would be a whole easier to learn one thing first. I understand the money could be great but like everything else, there's always the flip side. I read somewhere that underwater welding is one of the most dangerous jobs there is. One little thing go's wrong underwater and you could be dead.
Reply:If you are near Morgan city La check out the college there that has a commercial program , It takes longer but is cheaper as I remember it. http://www.scl.edu/index.cfm?md=page...catid=0&elid=0
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveI don't understand how you can just take a course(s) for a several month's or even a year and be qualified to do underwater welding because you passed a test in controlled conditions? Welding in a nice clean shop with everything at your disposal takes years to master and normally you go through an apprenticeship before you're certified. I think it would be a whole easier to learn one thing first. I understand the money could be great but like everything else, there's always the flip side. I read somewhere that underwater welding is one of the most dangerous jobs there is. One little thing go's wrong underwater and you could be dead.
Reply:One of my sons friends got out of the Marines and took the Diving/welding school in Seattle.  He worked for a while, but said jobs were not steady and far too far apart to be reliable enough to raise a family.  He had three kids, and ended up choosing another career in oil fields.  I do a lot of diving for work (no underwater welding) and I can vouch for the fact that it is exhausting, even though it feels like you're not doing anything physically. I do some salvage and rescue work which can tax you mentally. Pretty much work is zero viability, black water, so you have to be experienced enough to never panic. I think even with the best certs from that school, you would be bottom of the ladder on a boat at first.
Reply:Thanks for feedback - seemed unrealistic/unsafe to learn both welding and diving in a 20 week class to be a certified underwater  welder. Appreciate the advise and suggestions.
Reply:Originally Posted by JonathanParkerThanks for feedback - seemed unrealistic/unsafe to learn both welding and diving in a 20 week class to be a certified underwater  welder. Appreciate the advise and suggestions.
Reply:Down here in the oil patch, dive school underwater welding certifications are basically useless. Although, it may help you get your foot in the door at a company such as Oceaneering or Phoenix Int. You will have to pass the companies in-house performance qualification testing (becoming truly "certified") prior to getting the chance to weld in the field. This will take you quite some time no matter how good of a welder you seem to be. (I can't speak to how things are done in the inland market, but I don't believe there is much of a inland U/W welding market? Perhaps someone on here can school me?)In the last 15 years I've done as much, if not more, hyperbaric welding than anyone in the business. U/W welding jobs probably make up for about 75% of my income, and most of them are in a habitat. Now that that I sup for Phoenix, I can honestly say that a dive school welding cert would probably work against you in this business. It won't if you do not consider yourself entitled to be in the dive rotation because of it.All real diver/ welders are also NDT technicians. At Phoenix before one can even take a U/W test you must first become a level 1 VT, MT, UTG, PT inspector, at minimum. My advise to you is to forget about underwater welding... for the time being. If you are interested in making a living underwater, the skills that will set you apart from the rest of the group are rigging, mechanics, understanding NDT methods, hard work, as well as understanding and respecting diving life support . My father used to tell me that a welder who can't rig or fit is like a guy who can only drive nails calling himself a carpenter. (Useless) A good Diver/ Welder can do every aspect of the project from burning out the damaged member, setting the habitat, and completing the final inspection. The truth is, if your not a topside welder now, you have a very long time before you'll be a broke out diver/ welder. Believe it or not, I'm not trying to discourage you. Go to dive school and come down here to the Gulf. It's not easy to become a diver here and it's even harder to stay a diver here. If you work very hard and you're good, you can make a lot of money. Good Diver 1 and 2's can make over $100K per year consistently. While you are spending your first few years tending, practice welding and make sure your sup knows you want to be involved. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND studying the AWS CWI course material while you are learning to weld. Ask the older hands, practice, and read books about proper heavy rigging practices. The first time you burn out a big VD and send it up on the crane from about 200ft, you'll forget all about welding! If you can do all these things, and you're easy to get along with, the Diver/ Welders might invite you into their very small group.I highly recommend the dive school I went to called Louisiana Technical College Young Memorial Campus. It's cheap, and it's right in Morgan City, La. Don't get suckered in by these $20K-$30K dive schools. No matter how much you pay for dive school you still be just a face in the crowd trying to scrap your way to breaking out. Good luck to you my friend!(Sorry for rambling. Wifey and the kids went to bed early tonight...)
Reply:Originally Posted by Make It HotDown here in the oil patch, dive school underwater welding certifications are basically useless. Although, it may help you get your foot in the door at a company such as Oceaneering or Phoenix Int. You will have to pass the companies in-house performance qualification testing (becoming truly "certified") prior to getting the chance to weld in the field. This will take you quite some time no matter how good of a welder you seem to be. (I can't speak to how things are done in the inland market, but I don't believe there is much of a inland U/W welding market? Perhaps someone on here can school me?)In the last 15 years I've done as much, if not more, hyperbaric welding than anyone in the business. U/W welding jobs probably make up for about 75% of my income, and most of them are in a habitat. Now that that I sup for Phoenix, I can honestly say that a dive school welding cert would probably work against you in this business. It won't if you do not consider yourself entitled to be in the dive rotation because of it.All real diver/ welders are also NDT technicians. At Phoenix before one can even take a U/W test you must first become a level 1 VT, MT, UTG, PT inspector, at minimum. My advise to you is to forget about underwater welding... for the time being. If you are interested in making a living underwater, the skills that will set you apart from the rest of the group are rigging, mechanics, understanding NDT methods, hard work, as well as understanding and respecting diving life support . My father used to tell me that a welder who can't rig or fit is like a guy who can only drive nails calling himself a carpenter. (Useless) A good Diver/ Welder can do every aspect of the project from burning out the damaged member, setting the habitat, and completing the final inspection. The truth is, if your not a topside welder now, you have a very long time before you'll be a broke out diver/ welder. Believe it or not, I'm not trying to discourage you. Go to dive school and come down here to the Gulf. It's not easy to become a diver here and it's even harder to stay a diver here. If you work very hard and you're good, you can make a lot of money. Good Diver 1 and 2's can make over $100K per year consistently. While you are spending your first few years tending, practice welding and make sure your sup knows you want to be involved. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND studying the AWS CWI course material while you are learning to weld. Ask the older hands, practice, and read books about proper heavy rigging practices. The first time you burn out a big VD and send it up on the crane from about 200ft, you'll forget all about welding! If you can do all these things, and you're easy to get along with, the Diver/ Welders might invite you into their very small group.I highly recommend the dive school I went to called Louisiana Technical College Young Memorial Campus. It's cheap, and it's right in Morgan City, La. Don't get suckered in by these $20K-$30K dive schools. No matter how much you pay for dive school you still be just a face in the crowd trying to scrap your way to breaking out. Good luck to you my friend!(Sorry for rambling. Wifey and the kids went to bed early tonight...)
Reply:Thanks again for the information - with limited search on internet (searching for schools) the advice or direction  from an underwater welding institution seemed questionable to me and I did not want to throw money away for a certification that I may or may not receive and may or may not be useful. I only found limited information on underwater welding driving schools in terms of student reviews. Really appreciate the time you took to let me  know how it really is and the career /education advice.
Reply:I am not aware that there are any "underwater welding schools". There are dive schools that give you a very very basic understanding of wet welding/burning. If you have any questions message me. I have been a commercial diver for 15 years. I have actually done quite a bit of wet welding and burning. relatively.
Reply:Kinda reminds me of flying schools.  People don't realize you don't just go to flying school for a few months, then graduate and get a job piloting a 747.  Your first few years, you might start off copiloting little twin-prop regional hops part time for something near minimum wage.  The "747 pilot" glamour gigs are, way, WAAAAAAAAAAAY down the road.-RuarkLincoln 3200HDHobart Stickmate LX235TWECO Fabricator 211iOriginally Posted by JonathanParkerThanks again for the information - with limited search on internet (searching for schools) the advice or direction  from an underwater welding institution seemed questionable to me and I did not want to throw money away for a certification that I may or may not receive and may or may not be useful. I only found limited information on underwater welding driving schools in terms of student reviews. Really appreciate the time you took to let me  know how it really is and the career /education advice.
Reply:His last activity here was Jan 15th when he made his last post. He hasn't been on at all since. I don't know if you'll get an answer to your question or not..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks. Just curious how the kid made out...Strive to do the bare minimum... anything else is over-welding.
Reply:If he's set up for notifications, he might get an email telling him someone posted to the thread. Most times people either don't bother to set up notifications, or simply ignore them if they got the answer they wanted originally..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thank you for all the feedback on question on diving schools. I had reservations on the school and the feedback affirmed that it probably was not the school / training center for a successful career.
Reply:Thanks again for the feedback.
Reply:I have decided to return to college for BS degree but appreciate everyone's feedback. Avoided making a costly  mistake and signing up for a diving/welding school that makes great "promises".