Lincoln 3200HD or 175HD? 115V vs. 230V?

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I'm looking for a welder basically for projects at home, mainly auto-related projects!  I've basically narrowed my choices down to a Lincoln 3200HD which is 115V or the Lincoln 175HD which is 230V.  My main project is a school bus I'm converting into a camper/hunting rig.  I am not going to be welding anything thicker than regular sheet metal or bed rails.  Price isn't an issue.  I could afford either machine.  But I can't get the school bus in my driveway to work on it.  I would have to park it in the street and run almost 100 feet of extension cord to reach the bus.  I could plug into my dryer outlet, but I haven't seen any 230V 100' long extension cords!  Also, I do a lot of dirtbike racing.  If I needed to weld something at the track, the only power I have is two Honda EU2000I generators that are run in parallel.  They are 120V only.  Is 4000W or power enough for the 3200HD?  I have some other projects in mind as well.  I would like to build a tree stand/dolly for hog hunting.  Is the 3200HD enough for what I'm wanting to do with it?  I keep reading that I should go with a 230V machine, but it sounds like it would be a lot harder to use for what I'm wanting to use it for.  I just can't see myself ever welding anything thicker than 1/4".  Thanks for any advice!Matt in OKCLincoln 175HD
Reply:A few things. Running the 2 generators in parallel is not going to work. If they are rated at 10A @115VAC, then adding another unit will send a false report to the breaker. Plus, when the welder asks for 15, 20A, each generator will sense that request, and you'll trip both breakers. Now, for a 220V cord, cut the 115 ends off a 100' #10 HD construction cord, and wire up connectors at both ends for instant 220V cord! And, even running a 115V welder like the 3200, use the heavy cord. That is a long run for power supply, and you will run low on power with the long cord, it is just a lot of resistance to overcome. So, if you are welding 1/8-1/4, you are fine with the 3200. The 175 will burn thicker/ quicker, but not necessary. And finally, if your bikes are newer, there is a lot more aluminum on them than in years past. So you will be pretty SOL for welding aluminum at trackside with a small mig welder. You really want an econotig with A/C welding to do that. But that is out of the price range you are tossing around for now.
Reply:Thanks for the info!  I would prefer to buy the 175HD, but the power availiability is my only concern.  There are plenty of people with welding type generators at the track that I could hook up to if I had to.  As long as I can run a 100 foot extension cord, I think I'd be okay with the 175HD.Matt in OKCLincoln 175HD
Reply:Any construction-grade extension cord will be fine for 230 volts.  For a given wire gauge in your extension cord, you will get DOUBLE the power to your welder at 230 volts compared to 115 volts for the same current and, therefore, voltage drop/power loss in your cord.  Conversely, for a given gauge and current, you will have half the voltage drop in your cable for a given power demand by the load.  additionally, for the same power demand, you could probably drop down a step in conductor gauge for the same power loss in the cord.  It's a slam-dunk to me that you should get a 230 volt welder for your intended use at the end of a long extension cord. You could probably find a "230 Volt" extension cord at a construction supply house, but you will probably pay a premium and not have anything that much better than a heavy duty "115 volt" hardware store cord on which you have installed 230 Volt connectors of your choice.  The only difference between a 115 Volt cord and a 230 Volt cord is the type of connector.  Insulation thickness for individual conductors in type SJ flexible cords is specified at 45 mils independent of voltage below 600 volts. (This is according to my reading of my very outdated 1967 NEC.  I do not claim expertise in the electrical code, as I do not even have a current edition.).  I don't believe there is any distinction between flexible cords for service at any voltage below 600 volts.  Look for a UL label and SJ or SJxx designation to be sure that you are getting a cord that meets code standards.  Rated cords will have the gauge and type on the outer cover every two feet or less.By the way, you can't run two AC generators in parallel OR series to double the power because, unless they are specifically designed to be synchronized (i.e., one slaved to the other) they will slip in and out of phase and fight each other.  What is the usage that you describe as, "...the only power I have is two Honda EU2000I generators that are run in parallel"?  How are they connected?To determine whether 4KW is sufficient for your welder, divide the power by 115 volts and you get 34.8 amps.  Compare this with the rated input current of the welder.  You should download operator's manuals for the two welders and compare their  current demands at rated output to figure what you have to provide.awrightLast edited by awright; 01-01-2007 at 03:00 AM.
Reply:Well, I was up at Home Depot tonight looking at the welders.  I'm pretty much dead set on getting the 175HD.  I was drooling over it, but they were closing early due to the holiday and rushed me out.  I guess the only thing I would need to get is some shielding gas.  Where can I get some at?  I didn't see any there, but again, I was rushed.  Home Depot's price is $599.  I have a 20% off card that a friend gave me that works there.  That would make the price for the 175HD kit $480.  Does that seem like a pretty good price?  Also, how much does shielding gas cost and how long does it last?  Thanks!Matt in OKCLincoln 175HD
Reply:Originally Posted by KC10ChiefWell, I was up at Home Depot tonight looking at the welders.  I'm pretty much dead set on getting the 175HD.  I was drooling over it, but they were closing early due to the holiday and rushed me out.  I guess the only thing I would need to get is some shielding gas.  Where can I get some at?  I didn't see any there, but again, I was rushed.  Home Depot's price is $599.  I have a 20% off card that a friend gave me that works there.  That would make the price for the 175HD kit $480.  Does that seem like a pretty good price?  Also, how much does shielding gas cost and how long does it last?  Thanks!
Reply:Either machine is capable within its limits.  The 175 has slightly higher thickness limits and the 3200HD can dial down a slight bit more and thus can do thinner sheet metal a little easier.Note that the listed max thickness on the box for either machine are with FCAW.  The 3200HD can run 0.035 flux-core wire, while the 175 can run 0.035 or 0.045 flux-core wire (the 0.045 FC wire is for the heavier stuff obviously).Also note that Lincoln's Innershield NR-211-MP is only rated to a max thickness of 5/16 inch mild steel in the 0.035 or 0.045 size, multipass or not and beveled-prep or not.  That is the 0.035 flux-core wire you'll typically find in the big-box stores.  Go to the Lincoln web-site and read all about the machine and wire capabilities and limits and recommendations.And Rojodiablo and awright, the Honda Inverter generators that KC10Chief is talking about are 120V only generators that have the ability to have two of them be paralleled (with a special cord) and then they give you the ability of still 120V operation but at the SUM of their current/power ratings.  So running two 120V EU2000 gens in parallel gives you 4000W of power output at the same 120V, which should be plenty of power capability to run a 3200HD at trackside.For the extension cord, like folks said you can just by a 100 ft 10ga cord and then cut off the 120V plug and receptacle and put on the appropriate 240V plug and receptacle.  Or you can just buy 100 ft of 10-2 cord and again the appropriate 240 plug and receptacle and put it all together.  Or look around online or at an electrical supply store for the right cord.
Reply:Go for the 175. I have one and it works good at a lower level. The duty cycle is not that good for thick metal. Before I had 3 phase, I used it all the time with home made extension cords without much of a problem. Another possibility for a go anywhere welder is a weld/gen unit. If you can stick weld good that is a possibility. When in dought always buy the model above what you think you will need.
Reply:Well, MoonRise, it seems the world has passed me by AGAIN!  Having had that happen several times before, I included the hedge, "...unless they are specifically designed to be synchronized (i.e., one slaved to the other)..."So, how are these generators synchronized?  Are there extra conductors in a special cable to synchronize the two machines or are they smart enough to sense the speed of the other machine through a plain "Y" connected power cable?  I know my little Honda is nowhere near smart enough to play well with another generator.Thanks for the update.awright
Reply:Originally Posted by awrightWell, MoonRise, it seems the world has passed me by AGAIN!  Having had that happen several times before, I included the hedge, "...unless they are specifically designed to be synchronized (i.e., one slaved to the other)..."So, how are these generators synchronized?  Are there extra conductors in a special cable to synchronize the two machines or are they smart enough to sense the speed of the other machine through a plain "Y" connected power cable?  I know my little Honda is nowhere near smart enough to play well with another generator.Thanks for the update.awright
Reply:But what is in the "Y" cable?  There must be some extra conductors for synchronization.  Either that, or these are REALLY smart generators.awright
Reply:There are three plug in's for each generator.  Positive, Negative and a ground I guess.  Not sure what they are exactly.  I just plug them in where they go and it all works.Matt in OKCLincoln 175HD