Old mill worth considering?

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I saw this old mill sitting in a warehouse today and wonder if it's worth talking to the owner about. I know him personally and he'd probably let me drag it out of there for less than $200 but is it worth it even if he let it go for $50? The only stamping plate was marked as a "Seimens" but all the stampings were too small for me to read (model, serial, etc). I shook and rattled it from several places and it seems very tight, but I didn't have any tools with me to check it with. No tooling, vise or quill (cutter holder?) was located anywhere near it so it's the machine as pictured. I took a picture of the quill area (correct name?) but don't really know what I'm looking at.Just wondering if anyone has seen or worked on a similiar looking machine. Attached Images
Reply:for $50 I'd think you could scrap it and come out ahead.  I know around here the minimum you could get for that without collets, vise or tooling would be $3-400
Reply:I've seen my share of machine tools but not one quite like that... It may be the original mill-drill.It looks sturdy enough, I'd check to see what collets it takes (looks like TG100 or ER32 maybe). Then bounce a price off the fellow.Matt
Reply:The threads around the spindle initially made me think of the ER and TG collets too, but as I'm looking it over, I don't see anywhere for a drawbar to extend through the spindle.A drawbar is normally used to hold the cutter into the spindle so that it doesn't come out due to side forces when milling. However, some milling machines around the 1900's did not use a drawbar, instead used tanged holders, similar to tanged morse taper drill bits. The machine looks too new to be this style, but something to think of.I have also seen some machines where the cutter is inserted and a nut slips over the cutter and screws on to the spindle to hold everything in place. Kind of like the nut that holds chucks on an L-series lathe spindles. AndrewP.S. Do you have a lathe? If you do, you can always make up some arbors to fit whatever the taper is. Use the arbors to make end-mill holders, mount drill chucks, etc.
Reply:Except for the elevation handwheel there on the back it looks a lot like a Swedish Arboga. Here's a link to LatheUK with a rundown on the models and some pictures. Gut feeling...Taiwanese copy as noted on Tony's sitehttp://www.lathes.co.uk/arboga/index.htmlEDIT: BTW, if it is an Arboga, here is another thread from Prac. Mach. that provides some in depth discussion of that spindle thread and nut.http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...5-mill-161054/Last edited by WyoRoy; 02-10-2011 at 10:45 PM.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyExcept for the elevation handwheel there on the back it looks a lot like a Swedish Arboga. Here's a link to LatheUK with a rundown on the models and some pictures. Gut feeling...Taiwanese copy as noted on Tony's sitehttp://www.lathes.co.uk/arboga/index.htmlEDIT: BTW, if it is an Arboga, here is another thread from Prac. Mach. that provides some in depth discussion of that spindle thread and nut.http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...5-mill-161054/
Reply:A nut to hold the 3MT shank shouldn't be too expensive at all.  I'd be more than happy to turn one for you, but it would be a pain to change my gears for metric just for this piece...  If you have a friend with metric threading capability, you'd be all set.Overall, it looks like a great piece of iron.  If you could get it for as cheap as you say, I'm sure you'll have quite a good time with it.
Reply:I didn't take the time to look at the spindle taper in that article, but if it is indeed MT3 you may want to check out an eBay seller by the name of Tools4cheap or contact him on the Practical Machinist forum under the same name as he offers MT3 shank toolholders at a reasonable price.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:around here i don't think it would get more than $100 - 150.....would make a nice drill press though......
Reply:looks like a well built machine, I would give 200.00 all day long!
Reply:What voltage, horsepower... Is it vari speed(didn't see a handle) or step pulley?You can't expect to get much for $200Tim Beeker.
Reply:Thanks for all the replys and links to potential data about this unit. I'm going to try and swing by the warehouse again this week and look for more identifying tags on it. I did see a tag showing it is 220v 3 phase, but I didn't see what the HP rating is. I took a picture of what I beleived was the manufacturers tag "Siemens" but the print was too small and the warehouse too dark for me to read it (the flash of the camera didn't help for later viewing either).If I can make it back out there, is there anything specific I should get the measurments of to detemine if it's a 3MT or if other parts/peices will easily adapt to it?And again, I'm not asking "is this a great deal" I'm asking "is it worth my time to drag home cause I have enough clutter already  " Attached Images
Reply:Some things to check.....Do you have anything that is MT3? Tanged or drawbar, don't matter at this point. (Just don't push the MT3 up into the spindle too hard or you might not get it out!) That way you could check the spindle.Perhaps calipers and thread checkers (Not the right name...you know, those things that come in tap/die sets that let you check thread pitch) to check the thread on the end of the spindle. If you are going to have to make 1 or more nuts for it, you'll need to know this anyway. And it may matter if your lathe can only cut imperial and this is metric, or vice-versa.Dial indicator and mag base to check for slop/backlash/etc. in each axis.Motor voltage & number of phases... You can always swap out the motor or run it off of a VFD or phase converter if it is 3 phase.Flashlight to get a good look it everything. Camera for more pictures. How much travel per revolution for each axis? My lathe is 0.200" per rev for both the cross-slide and compound and it's almost too much for manual feeding...hard to get a nice finish.How many spindle speeds? What are they? Or maybe it's a variable speed type of set-up?Can it be hooked up to power and tested? If not, then at least check to see if everything moves. All handwheels turn, spindle turns, table moves, etc.Oil leaks on any gearboxes? If there are sight windows, is there oil visible? If not, maybe the bearings are shot if it's been run without oil. (Could just be low of course...)Andrew
Reply:I would guess that the Siemens tag is the motor tag...it lists 220-240 which would be the voltage. Can't make out too much else....Andrew
Reply:What RPM does it run and does it have capability to change speeds?  It almost looks to me like it could be a surfacing machine.  Maybe it had a multi-toothed wheel on it like a head and block resurfacer or if the speed is higher it might be a surface grinder of some sort.  The table looks like it has provisions to collect coolant.
Reply:Jeez, the thing is a gear head machine! Take a look at the two toggles on the upper left hand side of the head. Attached ImagesLincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:I think its a geared head drill press, not a milling machine.Siemens is the motor, not the drill company.And if it has a Siemens motor on it, its about a 90% chance its Euro.Probably either spanish, or swedish, as they were the two big makers of geared head drills.Arboga, Strands, and a few other names are all from the same town in Sweden. They made a lot of the bigger Wilton machines as well.New, a taiwanese machine like this is around 3 grand and up, European is closer to 5 grand. So $200 is a deal.
Reply:Originally Posted by RiesI think its a geared head drill press, not a milling machine.Siemens is the motor, not the drill company.And if it has a Siemens motor on it, its about a 90% chance its Euro.Probably either spanish, or swedish, as they were the two big makers of geared head drills.Arboga, Strands, and a few other names are all from the same town in Sweden. They made a lot of the bigger Wilton machines as well.New, a taiwanese machine like this is around 3 grand and up, European is closer to 5 grand. So $200 is a deal.
Reply:I visited the warehouse again today and brought calipers and a thread measuring tool. The diameter of the thread around the spindle measures exactly 1.375". The threads did not match any on the tool I brought and I beleive the tool is stricklty imperical so the threads must be metric.The inside diameter of the spindle at the opening is exactly 15/16". I slid the caliper into the opening and could "feel" the taper, but obviously unable to measure it. I took a couple more pics and found a "Made in Sweden" stamp on the side of the table. On the top front of the machine is a silver tag which I beleive had the company name on it, but it's just a "washed out" silver tag now.I casually talked price and mentioned $100 to $200 and he said "tell me what you want to give for it and he'll have the guys load it up".If it's just a drill press then he has two other interesting ones of the same vintage, one of them with 6 chucks If it's a combo drill/mill then I'd definately like to "drag it home" He also has 3 "classic" Hobart units just sitting, collecting dust. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoySigh...once again. http://www.lathes.co.uk/arboga/index.htmlWhile this one is Euro or Taiwanese, here's one of the other 10% Siemens motored products I get to spend my nights on
Reply:If it still works just BUY IT!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:+1, if you can get the collets for fair dough.The second machine is a Burgmaster turret drill (pretty high dollar in the day). There is one running here;[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBphUiF_bVg&NR=1[/ame]The Hobart is a very smooth tig (again high dollar in the day), I'm guessing the 200Amp model (that would be a NEMA I tagged machine, 200A/100%). If the range selector still works OK = good buy, if not = pass.Matt
Reply:I'm with Zapster.  I would have cashed in my change and popcans and had it home already.  Do the figurin and measuring there.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoySigh...once again. http://www.lathes.co.uk/arboga/index.htmlWhile this one is Euro or Taiwanese, here's one of the other 10% Siemens motored products I get to spend my nights on
Reply:Sounds like he's prepared to move it all. Offer a few hundred for all the drill/mill machines and the welders. Sort it out when you get home and sell the extras.AndrewOriginally Posted by RiesI am a little confused about what the sigh is for-As I said, its swedish- and, while it might have been called a "mill drill", Tony at UK lathes says it usually came with a no. 3 morse taper- which, to me, is a drill, not a mill.Tapers dont hold the tools in place very well with the side loads from milling, which is why most all real mills have a drawbar, which positively holds the tooling in place.this thing is capable of light milling, but its not, in my book, a milling machine.its a really herky drill press.I would still buy it.
Reply:So the head raises and lowers and the table is solid?I didn't know there were mills like that.  That sounds less accurate and less sturdy.  Is this what I am getting from the pictures?
Reply:I wish I was close enough to drag it home for $200... I would relieve you of this ' problem'....LOLWeldandpower Lincoln 225 AC,DC with Briggs 16hp gas engine.WW2 era Miller TIG.
Reply:Originally Posted by markfugaI saw this old mill sitting in a warehouse today and wonder if it's worth talking to the owner about. I know him personally and he'd probably let me drag it out of there for less than $200 but is it worth it even if he let it go for $50? The only stamping plate was marked as a "Seimens" but all the stampings were too small for me to read (model, serial, etc). I shook and rattled it from several places and it seems very tight, but I didn't have any tools with me to check it with. No tooling, vise or quill (cutter holder?) was located anywhere near it so it's the machine as pictured. I took a picture of the quill area (correct name?) but don't really know what I'm looking at.Just wondering if anyone has seen or worked on a similiar looking machine.