dumb 7018 question

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was messing around padding beads on some scrap tonight. I haven't used my stick welder in a number of months, and I wasn't that good to begin with, so just getting some seat time. Had no problem on 7014 rod. Ran some 1/8th Lincoln 7018 AC tonight for the first time ever. The beds ran OK, but the slag was epic. Started at ~120 amps on some 3/8ths inch thick scrap, which was pretty close to midrange of the recommended amps (95-135). It was acting cold and the puddle just wouldn't spread out. The beads looked OK, but were only slightly wider than the electrode. I upped the amps to about 130-135, and it wasn't much better. I was just dragging the rod, not doing any kind of pattern or anything. What are the secrets to running 7018? do I need to put a little pattern into the rod movement? do I need to use a different drag angle than 7014? What am I missing?Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:I move 7018 up and down just a little. What little 7014 I've run, I run it like 6013, more rod angle. 7018 less rod angle. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Running on AC or DC? Some machines just don't run 7108, even 7018Ac very well in AC. Picts would help..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DCEP. I will see if I can grab some pics tomorrow. The metal was ground clean before hand.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:I just drag the flux on the metal, rod nearly vertical. But I run about everything that way because I'm a lazy welder Drag 80-90 degrees to the plate. My machine likes about 135 amps on 3/8" plate.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:When welding flat with 7018 I like to long arc it. The slightly longer arc increases arc voltage and helps spread the puddle. It helps make a nicer looking bead. I also use a very slight side to side oscillation with the rod.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeWhen welding flat with 7018 I like to long arc it. The slightly longer arc increases arc voltage and helps spread the puddle. It helps make a nicer looking bead. I also use a very slight side to side oscillation with the rod.
Reply:Louie,Get yourself some Excalibur 7018 and try again on DCEP.  I cannot run Lincoln 7018AC on DCEP for shizz.  All I see behind the arc is slag and more slag, no puddle.If you want, PM me and I'll mail you some Excalibur 7018MR.  You can run them side by side.  I think they fit in a flat rate box diagonally.  When I run Excalibur, I see a clear puddle.
Reply:Al I know rods will just fit straight in a USPS flat rate medium box with a tiny bit of stretching on the box. I sent AKmud a bunch of 1/8" Excalibur, some Lincoln 7018 Jet rod, some 6010's and 7024's to fill out the box when I mailed him the stinger I picked up for him..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I turned up the heat a bit tonight and had some better results. On the first pic, all but the last three beads on the bottom are 7014. Last three are 7018. On the other pic, all are 7018Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Now stack them half way on top of each other.  Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Looking better..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Yeah, tonight the flux was peeling off on its own...not much chipping required. I think I just needed to crank up the heat a bit. Bead width looked better to me as well. I was kind of surprised how far I had to push it. according to the dial I was probably 140 amps, which was above the range noted on the packaging.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Every machine is a bit different. On top of that how a given person welds can change the amp range that works well. How I set the machine may not give the same results when some one else uses it if their weld style is different than mine.All those beads on that last plate look very nice. A few small issues with consistency, but that will solve itself with practice. Last 7018 one is very nice. I agree now you need to work on aim and getting those beads to overlap 50% next.Fdude64 this is what you are looking to try and accomplish..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I like to run 7018 hot enough that if I burn it down to the last inch and a half, the stub is just glowing pink.Hobart Beta-Mig 2511972 Miller AEAD-200LEMiller 250 TwinNorthern Ind. Hybrid 200Longevity Stick 140Longevity Migweld 200SThermal Arc Pak 3XR
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961DCEP. I will see if I can grab some pics tomorrow. The metal was ground clean before hand.
Reply:Why DCEP? Mostly because my first welder was a hand-me-down 45 year old Lincoln AC tombstone, and for whatever reason, I couldn't make that thing lay down a decent bead no matter what. When I got my stickmate, I ran everything on DC and had a lot more success. Is it because of DC vs AC? probably not, but I have never changed the recipe since.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961Why DCEP? Mostly because my first welder was a hand-me-down 45 year old Lincoln AC tombstone, and for whatever reason, I couldn't make that thing lay down a decent bead no matter what. When I got my stickmate, I ran everything on DC and had a lot more success. Is it because of DC vs AC? probably not, but I have never changed the recipe since.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDavePlease note this is in no way a personal attack - I recently read a research study that found long arcing 7018 increases hydrogen in the weld.  It was not the main focus of the study that I remember, more of a side note.I can try find the article tomorrow if anyone is interested?
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeTalk to anyone who does this for a living about using arc length to control their heat/puddle. I weld structural steel with 7018 on a daily basis. This is how I feed my family. Each weld has to pass inspection. Using your arc length to control heat and the puddle when your machine is a long way away from you is how it's done.Pipe welders, structural steel, you name it. Mind you, I pre heat everything I weld to 150f/65c to sweat out any hydrogen. All my rods come out of a portable rod oven as well. No hydrogen infiltration. All code quality work.
Reply:Your idea of long arcing and mine are obviously different. Notice the key reference to "Shielding" in the statement you posted. If you long arc 7018 like you would using 6010 rod, you will experience instant porosity with 7018. That's because too long of an arc will result in loss of shielding like stated in the Lincoln book. The loss of shielding is because the flux on the rod gets too far away from the weld puddle. However, using a "Slightly" longer arc, like I stated in my first post, does not result in a loss of shielding and does increase arc voltage which puts more heat in your weld and helps spread your puddle.Common knowledge with 7018 stick welding.You don't have to tell us your not an expert Dave. I can see that in your posts. No offense intended of course.Last edited by snoeproe; 03-18-2014 at 08:37 PM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:It is amazing what just a 64th of an inch change in arc length will do to the puddle of 7018. But you also have to know what you're looking at. Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:OK, so I seriously DON'T know what I am looking at yet. I am getting porosity at the beginning of some welds, and I have a hard time laying a straight bead. Putting a bit of rod motion into it seems to help some. On the last pic, I grabbed some 6011 and laid down a couple of beads just for comparison. I feel like I can lay a much straighter bead with 6011, probably because I can see the puddle. On these 7018's, I just can't see the puddle. I will try to pick up some lincoln excaliburs later this week.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Maybe I can blame it on the head cold I am coming down with ;-)Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:If your welding with Hobart 7018 AC on AC don't waste your time. The Hobart 7018AC I tried wouldn't run worth crap on AC but ran great on DC. Lincoln 7018 AC works well for me on AC but you will have to turn up the amps on AC to get good welds.I agree with DSW, every welder and person welds differently. How I weld will not be the same way you will weld. Also, you can have two identical machines and they will weld differently.If I were you I would get some Lincoln 7018AC and turn your welder up to 150 to 170 amps on AC and try welding some beads. (with 1/8th rods at 150 to 170 amps)Good luck!Last edited by kctgb; 03-18-2014 at 08:56 PM.Actually you're doing a good job! It's hard for anybody to make a straight weld on a flat plate. Start on some fillet, and lap joints.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeYour idea of long arcing and mine are obviously different. Notice the key reference to "Shielding" in the statement you posted. If you long arc 7018 like you would using 6010 rod, you will experience instant porosity with 7018. That's because too long of an arc will result in loss of shielding like stated in the Lincoln book. The loss of shielding is because the flux on the rod gets too far away from the weld puddle. However, using a "Slightly" longer arc, like I stated in my first post, does not result in a loss of shielding and does increase arc voltage which puts more heat in your weld and helps spread your puddle.Common knowledge with 7018 stick welding.You don't have to tell us your not an expert Dave. I can see that in your posts. No offense intended of course.
Reply:I see porosity at the beginning and at the ends of some of your 7018 beads. This is because of too long of an arc. It only takes a half second with an arc that's too long and you get the porosity your seeing. Here's a tip that can help a new 7018 stick welder; when striking your arc, strike it 1/4-1/2" ahead of where you want to start laying down weld. Keep the arc SHORT and quickly move your electrode back the 1/4-1/2", pause an start depositing metal. As you begging traveling along the intended path of weldment, you will burn out any crap left in the location of your arc strike as you weld over it. At the end of the weld, keep the arc short and pause for a second to fill the crater and snap your rod away quickly to break the arc. Don't pause at the end with a long arc. That's a guarantied recipe for porosity.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Here is an example of bad long arcing-http://www.visiblewelding.com/Source...ding.Stick.aviA few personal notes on arc length,Before I learned to weld out of position pipe, I didn't know about changing the arc length. It is so subtle, you may not see it, after a while you don't even notice yourself doing it.  Consider it in the category of advanced welding techniques. When I was doing my B level welding course I had a hard time learning how to weld pipe in the 5G position. My root wouldn't protrude along the bottom. My cap would sag along the bottom. Finally the instructor brought out a box of reading glasses, wow.It put arc length in perspective. It changed the weld characteristics hugely but I couldn't tell I was doing anything. I went down to the dollar store and got a pair of 1.0X since that was the only one he didn't have. With in 2 days I passed 5G and the rest of the course was easy. I left those glasses there hoping they would help someone else some day. Turns out, a few months down the road, I went to the eye doc and I needed prescription glasses bad! One eye cant see far or near, the other required a prisim in the lens to let light in differently. Changed the way I see the world!Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:Here is a shot of a weld I made today with 7018. This is a gusset/stiffener plate that was welded into the side of an 8" I beam. You see a vertical up, over head and a flat weld on this plate. All 1/8 7018 rod fresh from a portable oven. Base metal preheated to 150f. The joint required 6mm of weld all the way around. The over head and flat were done in 2 passes. The vertical up weld was done in one pass. Flat weld was 120 amps, vertical up and over head were 115 amps. Miller big blue 400D welding machine. Notice there is no porosity, spatter or undercut anywhere. Bead appearance is reasonable. Last edited by snoeproe; 03-19-2014 at 11:02 PM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Found an old package of Hobart 3/32 7018 AC in the bottom of one of my milk crates today and burned the whole pound of it. I think I was liking this rod a lot better than the Lincoln 7018 AC. I will head to the LWS tomorrow and grab some excalibur rods and try those as well. In general I think I am getting better at this. Nothing like seat time to build skills. lap joint and tee joint were 1/8th plate, run at ~90 amps. Pad of beads was run on 1/4 plate at ~100 amps. Mixed in with some of these beads are some failed oxy acetylene beads...disregard those, that is another thread altogether.Miller Multimatic 255