Looking for a good, heavy duty square....

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Ok so I don't know if this product exists, but I'm curious if anyone has anything like it, or what they use to get square corners in 3 axis weldsRight now I'm using a 12" aluminum-bodied square from lowes with the corner cut out to allow me to check squareness around a weld bead where two pieces of 2" steel tubing are welded together.  The tables I am making, the "tops" of the tables are mitered together at a 45* angle with a Haberle cold saw, welded fully, ground flat, then the legs are attached, welded and ground flatI would like something a bit more substantial...I've been told that the cast aluminum ones are not often actually square and have other problems as well (also read it in the book metalworking sink or swim)Lately I've been getting more orders for "contemporary steel furniture" I have a company that does stone countertops and accents that buys my tables to throw a fancy piece of stone onto and resell.  I have been getting the feeling that my corners are not as square as they should be, and I need to do a 3-point-tack on the legs in order to make sure they are square in 2 axis to the table so it doesn't wobble.Wondering what those of you who do a lot of tube corners use....I saw another thread where a machinists combo square was used a lot but I am worried that a good quality combo square (starrett or mitutoyo) would be wrecked the first time it got dropped from waist high.  Plus doing 3 point tacks on the legs I usually hold the square to the leg in order to tack and keep things straight as the weld coolsI have seen the strong hand 3-axis welding clamp http://www.stronghandtools.com/products/vises.html wondering if anyone has used one?  It concerns me that (it appears like) in order to do the full weld, the workpiece would have to be removed from the clamp and continue welding, and I'm concerned how far out of square that could throw things.  Not to mention, $200 is a lot of cash to blow on a product that I've never used and don't know anyone who has used.  But if it saves me 15 minutes per table on a run of ten, I'd buy one right now.I'm anticipating getting more orders for these tables and wanting to speed up my production time, right now making sure everything fits up squarely is whats taking me the longest.  I don't want anything significantly out of square because high corners can cause stone table tops to crack and I don't want to be at fault for that.  After paint the tops of the tables get adhesive backed felt circles which absorb some differences but not much.Last edited by greenbuggy; 04-22-2011 at 02:25 PM.
Reply:I use Starrett squares. But I dont drop em. They cost too much.I also dont hold em on the hot stuff.Here's what I do for problems like yours- I bought a few turnbuckles at the hardware store- hexagonal center piece threaded with threaded rod at both ends like this-http://www.slingchoker.com/sling2/crosby/iv/iv114.htmWeld a piece of 1/2" round on each end, maybe 24" long- longer if you need it. Weld these across the corner, a foot or two down from the corner, depending on size.Tack the corner. Tack on the turnbuckle. Use your square, and a wrench on the turnbuckle, to square up the joint, then weld it. The turnbuckle holds it true while welding, and while it cools.Cut off the turnbuckle, sand out the welds.Its a lot easier to dial in the corner before you weld it, and hold it there. Obviously, it also helps to weld in the right order, tacking all four corners first, then doing sides, and inside and outside corners last.
Reply:For inside box corners I have had luck using a couple old 1-2-3  with a set screw holding them together.  Not an ideal solution for everyone but if you have them use them.When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives.
Reply:Few people know how to check a square to see if it's really square. 1st get a good straight edge at least twice as long as the leg on the square. Set this on a piece of paper and secure it so it will not move. Next put the square on the straight edge and draw a vertical line. Flip the square over the line and repeat. If the lines match exactly the square is good. If they don't the difference out is 1/2 the gap in the lines. Framing squares can be fixed with a punch and hammer, by putting a group of punch marks in the corner to "push" the square away from the punch marks. If it's really out just junk it, or have a machinist remachine the edge. I had a friend do that to a 12" alum speed square that was out quite a bit. He just tossed it in the mill, indexed one edge, and milled the other 90 deg to the indexed edge..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWFew people know how to check a square to see if it's really square. 1st get a good straight edge at least twice as long as the leg on the square. Set this on a piece of paper and secure it so it will not move. Next put the square on the straight edge and draw a vertical line. Flip the square over the line and repeat. If the lines match exactly the square is good. If they don't the difference out is 1/2 the gap in the lines. Framing squares can be fixed with a punch and hammer, by putting a group of punch marks in the corner to "push" the square away from the punch marks. If it's really out just junk it, or have a machinist remachine the edge. I had a friend do that to a 12" alum speed square that was out quite a bit. He just tossed it in the mill, indexed one edge, and milled the other 90 deg to the indexed edge.
Reply:Found a picture of one of Ernie Leimkuhler's Z-Squares, at least that's what Ernie called it. This one is kinda light (maybe 3/4" tubing). I made a couple of them from 2"x2"x 1/4" tubing, without the inside corner brace on the x-y. I make tacks on all 4 corners & go from there.Matt
Reply:ries has a good system described in post #2.... sounds like you need to build a jig if you have orders for several of these..
Reply:I had access to one of those Stronghand clamps and it is built well... BUT it just seemed like a PIA.I was building a Brew Stand out of 2"x2" 11g tubing and after I welded up the Frame for the Top shelf, lifting the frame into the Stronghand clamp was cumbersome and I had to go around the frame and support it- I just went back to the good ol method of tacking the Leg on and checking for squareEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:At my work there are some PEC (product engineering co) combination square sets they are very nice..... on my wishlist is one of those machinists squares.. and some cheap angle gage blocks,just to set my protractor combo square to, I just dont trust these squares..