Newbie question - does this add structural support?

admin

I ran across this in another forum, and I was wondering if filling in the bolt holes with welds adds to the strength of the gusset plate? Or is it just cosmetic?  I'm a beginner, so please be kind.  And NO, I did not weld this. I'm just beginning so there's no way my welds look that good.
Reply:Looks like GMAW, so yes IMO. Looks pretty serious, whatever it's for. Not a big fan of serious stuff with "I'm just beginning GMAW." Not trying to be an *** wipe, but it's easy to get junk welds that look "good enough" with GMAW.Powcon 300st (my favorite)Miller Goldstar 600ssLincoln Idealarc 400/400Miller 12vs2 LN25'sMiller Deltaweld 302Miller Bobcat 250 G EFIMiller Bobcat 225d Plus (Dropped a valve, up soon)Everlast 255ext (ordering soon!)
Reply:Thanks for the input, and I have no idea of the quality of the welds. Not my welding, just pics from another forum.  I'm planning on welding a few hinges to a metal door frame and was wondering if I should fill in the holes with weld or just weld around the edges like a normal lap joint.  If filling in the holes adds strength, then I'm all for it.
Reply:I typically fill in hinge holes and grind for aesthetic purposes. Doesn't add or take from the outside lap welds' strengths, just some ocd on my part. Sorry for the misunderstanding, cheers!Powcon 300st (my favorite)Miller Goldstar 600ssLincoln Idealarc 400/400Miller 12vs2 LN25'sMiller Deltaweld 302Miller Bobcat 250 G EFIMiller Bobcat 225d Plus (Dropped a valve, up soon)Everlast 255ext (ordering soon!)
Reply:Again, thanks for the input. And I definitely didn't take any offense to your comments.  I'm a gun forum guy so I don't wear my feelings on my sleeve.  I will say this, from reading various posts on this forum, you guys are really nice and helpful.  I will definitely be asking more questions as I progress in my welding skills.Fyre Tex
Reply:Um... edumicate me guys... does that part of the weld where it starts to go down the angle of the gusset plate look suspiciously like there might be a lack of penetration there?
Reply:It certainly does look like they were running a little colder than they should have there. The rest of the welds look decent from the computer screen. FyreTex, have you ever dealt with welding hinges to anything? If not, I highly recommend tacking it in place, hanging the door where you want it, making sure the hinge works, then going back and finishing the weld. Not sure what everyone else things of that, it may be common sense to do it that way, but it's easy for hinges to look straight from the eye and then you find out they're not and you have to do a lot of cutting. Just a $.02 suggestion.
Reply:If you are welding hidges on might I recomend weld on hinges. They are just like regular hidges but don't have bolt holes in them. They also tend to be cheaper than regular hidges and they aren't galvanized.My "collection":Homemade Stick WelderVictor O/A TorchAC 225Ideal Arc 250HF 90 Amp Flux CoreHF Mig 170Solar 2020 Plasma CutterPower i-Mig 140EHarris O/A torchHF Dual Mig 131140STAlpha Tig 200x
Reply:I would bet that filling in those holes on that gusset piece added Zero meaningful strength. Just added weight to the tongue Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Filling those holes in definitely adds strength. Those are called "plug" welds. If those were the only welds holding those gussets on, and they were done correctly, you'd have a heck of a time trying to break them off.It would be better if they were chamfered holes, though...Plus, by filling them with weld, it prevents water from getting down in there, possibly causing rust problems.Rich
Reply:Hello FyreTex, consider this: in instances where there can be vibrations associated with the use of a part plug welding will help to prevent breakage of the peripheral welds by limiting the movement of the material that makes up the inner "lap" portion of the weld joint. Sorry if this isn't so easily understood. Most fillet weld failures occur at the root of the weld. If the two parts making up the weld joint are fully restrained there is a lesser chance of a failure, however, if one or the other part is allowed to move, even ever so slightly, this will work on the root of the weld and lead to cracking and ultimately failure. A part of any size that is only welded on it's periphery to another part allows the inner portion of that part to "move", especially if there are temperature differentials and the parts are possibly of different thicknesses. By "plug welding" the inner portions of something like this you provide restraint and limit movement hence less likelihood of a failure. Hope this makes some sense. Good luck and best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:I'll add mine to the side that says adding plug welds like that adds to the strength. Those gussets are very well designed, altho a lot of overkill for the situation. They are certainly much stronger than what that tube can handle. Those welds do look cold with not much penetration to me too.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:I'll concede the technical part of adding strength but for this application it is a moot point:The 2" tubing will fail before the plug weld "Strength" even came into play.I'll buy the filling them into prevent water intrusion  scenario.Anyone here ever Fish Plate a frame?Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Fish plate lots of conveyors and trailers. Always throw some beveled plugs in for fun.Powcon 300st (my favorite)Miller Goldstar 600ssLincoln Idealarc 400/400Miller 12vs2 LN25'sMiller Deltaweld 302Miller Bobcat 250 G EFIMiller Bobcat 225d Plus (Dropped a valve, up soon)Everlast 255ext (ordering soon!)
Reply:Whatever part that is may have been intended to have been a bolt on type part. Plug welding certainly didn't hurt it, but the size of the holes doesn't help it a lot. Plug welds in small holes are notoriously weak and have a lack of penetration. If you want good plug welds, especially with mig, you need larger holes. I likely would have filled them to prevent water intrusion. To the Op, regarding the hinges. I build a lot of gates and doors, heavy ones too. If you are welding on a standard wood door hinge, you can do it several ways. Drilling out the hinge holes to 1/2" or so, and plug welding is a decent method, and it alleviates the edge welds on the hinge. Better is the drill and tap the for 12-24 undercut screws. This looks a lot better, but takes more time, and you need a jamb thick enough to take threads. You can also cut off most of the hinge plate and then weld it on, this eliminates all the empty holes, and gets your welds closer to where the flexing is at the hinge barrel. Another method is to reverse the hinge, so that the leaves do not sit face to face with no gap, but rather have a 3/16ish gap between the leaves. This allows you to weld them on without your welds bumping. Once reversed, you can also cut off most of the leaves, and weld them on the corners of the tube, making it easier to get weld on both sides, and have easier flap disk clean up. It all depends on what your application is, and how clean and professional you want it to look.Last edited by walker; 08-05-2015 at 06:43 PM.
Reply:With as much weld as there is around the plate those plug welds aren't doing much besides keeping water out.
Reply:For the tiny (and I mean minuscule) improvement from filling the holes, the fabricator took a much higher risk of over-heating and causing secondary problems.  A good job of welding would probably make it a wash but the tendency of most people is to over-weld and over-heat.  From a structural standpoint (ignoring the plugs) the part is likely far over-welded anyway.  Gain = effectively zero.  Loss = might find out later the hard way when the part is stressed.To my eye it does improve the cosmetics (and amount of work  needed to get there) so I probably would have done it also.
Reply:Originally Posted by iwreckalotFyreTex, have you ever dealt with welding hinges to anything? If not, I highly recommend tacking it in place, hanging the door where you want it, making sure the hinge works, then going back and finishing the weld. Not sure what everyone else things of that, it may be common sense to do it that way, but it's easy for hinges to look straight from the eye and then you find out they're not and you have to do a lot of cutting. Just a $.02 suggestion.