Child proof deck build

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Heres a 12x15 deck I built this week.  Materials were 4x4 square tube 14 gauge for uprights.  14 gauge 2x6 tube for the beams and middle support.  2" 1/8" thick angle for runners every 2 ft.  Rails were all 2" and 1" 14 gauge tube.  He wanted it all close to keep kids from falling off.  Did this job single handed 3.5 days time.  All welds were 1/8" 6011s at 85 amps with miller max star 150.  Thought I'd share. Attached Images
Reply:Is he installing plexi panels? Otherwise it doesn't look at all "child proof". In fact around here it wouldn't meet code for a couple of reasons. #1 the gap between rails is greater than 4" and #2 a design with horizontals like that would be considered "climbable" and wouldn't meet code even if the horizontals were less than 4" apart..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:We're in Texas and in the country, I built it the way he wanted it.  The city here doesn't even have codes on this stuff.  He plans on putting cattle panels around it if they do try to climb out but I'm sure that ain't up to code either.
Reply:And no I'm not being rude just saying.  Luckily we don't have too many codes on stuff.  If we did and it was a matter of that then I would've upheld it and built it differently.  Owner told me this is what he wanted and thats how it was built.
Reply:That some good work. Especially doing it in 3 and 1/2 days by yourself. DSW is right on those codes though. Even if there was no need for a permit or inspection, the owner may have issues in the future selling or refinancing the home.If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ish
Reply:For those not in the country this house is obviously a hybrid.  That's what we here in Texas call a house that looks like a metal barn but is actually a home under that skin.  First one I ever worked in was a huge metal barn sitting in the middle of forty acres.  I was called by the plumbing contractor to cut holes with the plasma for his waste system.  Place blew my mind, huge metal barn and when you got inside it was a 6,000 sq ft luxury home.  It seems the homeowner was pricing metal roofing for his new big home and discovered he could have a metal barn for a fraction of what it would cost for the roof of the house he was looking to build.  Plus, they do property taxes based on fly overs, just a barn folks, let's move on.......Nice work, but as had been mentioned, someone left their butt hanging in the wind on this one.  UBC codes broken coming and going, stairs, railings, etc.One thing I have discovered about clients who insist on having it built their way, they will never sign a waiver taking full responsibility for the liability of breaking the code.  I for one won't build something I know breaks code without that signed waiver.  And believe it or not, I've never had such a waiver signed. I carry a total of two million general liability.  If someone got hurt on something like that the lawyers would be one me in a New York minute, homeowner too.life is good
Reply:That will no way pass code. They probably require engineer certification  because they don't even have standards for metal deck structures.   Just building and permitting a deck on my house.   It's a painSent from my SCH-I545 using TapatalkTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Not to be a dick but if they had a child i couldn't in good conscious leave it like thatVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Based on everyone's response here you may want to add some more steel to bring the deck closer to code.  I'm sure if you explain it to the owner he would agree."All of this and some of that's the only way to skin the cat!"
Reply:I'm going to talk to him about it, he was really wanted it done this way.  This is good though compared to what else you see around here.  Just got done putting a cover on one for a guy that was already built that had the runners horizontal just like this and a lot bigger gap.  I've seen numerous, numerous ones around here that would not be up to code.  Do not guess thats a reason for mine not to be though.  Live and learn not everybody starts out knowing everything.
Reply:It's somewhat a shame that today we need to be worried more about liability than we do about design looks or even function many times. Things that were fine for many of us growing up would be an open invitation for loosing everything today. You'd hate to have some one bring over their kid to visit and have them go tumbling off the deck, even if the home owners kid never had an issue. Next thing you know the poor kid's a quadriplegic and some ambulance chaser is looking for a big payout. You can bet you're insurance will be getting a workout. Even worse if there are codes required in the area and you didn't follow them. Then you might be staring at jail time vs just loosing money.Sadly we need to cover our azz 1st and foremost. Know what local codes or standard practices are. If you are going against something, be darn sure you know why and get it in writing and a release. Some times even then it might be worth passing on a job. I've passed on 1 or 2 over the years where I didn't like the "feel" of a customer. Some people today are out to look for any reason to sue or take you to court so they get something for "free". Some people do this as a manner of course. They never intend to pay or are looking for someone who doesn't know any better so they can sue. I'd rather pass on a job, then get sucked into a lawsuit. Even if I "win", most likely I'd end up loosing in the long run..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Good job. Do you have any pic of how you connected to the concrete?Where did you get the tube cap at? I have been looking for some for awhile.Esab 253 mig welderHobart 210 mvp w/ C25 gasmiller 225 a/c stick welderO/A torchHF 40 amp plasma cutter
Reply:UBC codes are nation wide, locality has not effect on UBC building codes. Hope his insurance company doesn't make him get it checked out when he renews his insurance, they'll drop him until it's brought up to code.
Reply:Connected to concrete via weld plates installed beforehand.  Tube caps local steel yard sells them.
Reply:retracted - memory must be failing me....Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 05-22-2014 at 12:03 PM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveretracted - memory must be failing me....
Reply:Originally Posted by pin2hotThey say the mind is the 2nd thing to go.  I can't remember what the first was.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWIs he installing plexi panels? Otherwise it doesn't look at all "child proof". In fact around here it wouldn't meet code for a couple of reasons. #1 the gap between rails is greater than 4" and #2 a design with horizontals like that would be considered "climbable" and wouldn't meet code even if the horizontals were less than 4" apart.
Reply:That's really an effort and it looks good. I think the title was just misleading. Whether you have code or nonein your place,  tne deck appears to be not safe for kids.
Reply:I like it, but agree with everyone's opinion about the liability issues.  One thing I would definitely add is gussets under the deck at all four corner post locations.  That thing can get wobbly if after several years just one weld bead develops a stress riser crack.  Weight and swaying up top there with a high center of gravity connected to four LONG legs without support, is just a disaster waiting to happen.  I hope you got paid cash and no paper trail was created with your name anywhere on that project. "Hey I didn't come to look and learn, I came to turn and burn.... If I can't light up, I'm gonna light out!"-JodyIdealarc 250 "Fatman"MM 252MM 211 "Little boy" Victor Torches
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWIt's somewhat a shame that today we need to be worried more about liability than we do about design looks or even function many times. Things that were fine for many of us growing up would be an open invitation for loosing everything today. You'd hate to have some one bring over their kid to visit and have them go tumbling off the deck, even if the home owners kid never had an issue. Next thing you know the poor kid's a quadriplegic and some ambulance chaser is looking for a big payout. You can bet you're insurance will be getting a workout. Even worse if there are codes required in the area and you didn't follow them. Then you might be staring at jail time vs just loosing money.Sadly we need to cover our azz 1st and foremost. Know what local codes or standard practices are. If you are going against something, be darn sure you know why and get it in writing and a release. Some times even then it might be worth passing on a job. I've passed on 1 or 2 over the years where I didn't like the "feel" of a customer. Some people today are out to look for any reason to sue or take you to court so they get something for "free". Some people do this as a manner of course. They never intend to pay or are looking for someone who doesn't know any better so they can sue. I'd rather pass on a job, then get sucked into a lawsuit. Even if I "win", most likely I'd end up loosing in the long run.
Reply:Looks like a great fence design for keeping livestock. My kids (10, 5, and 2) would spend all their time climbing those rails.Lincoln Precision Tig 185Lincoln Power Mig 256Hypertherm PM 45Everlast 140STSmith O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by wroughtn_harvAnd we must never ever forget that the reasons for the codes is someone paid a horrible price for incompetence.  That four inch spacing thing in the handrails? Babies died to get that rule in place.  Non-climbable design on rails? Again, some babies died and we can eliminate the likelihood of it happening again.The building codes aren't about lawyers and covering our butts, it's about us not making the same mistakes that cause needless injuries to others.  We not only have the responsibility of doing good work, we have a responsibility to do it in a manner to protect the public from themselves most of the time.
Reply:Simple fix could be a wire mesh screen put I between the horizontals to fill them I've used weaved mesh on ramps befor looks good can be a bit of a pita to fit really nice but once you get a good pattern going it's quik and works to meet the codes
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcCodes and following them is one thing. It's a good thing.  However, getting a permit to build certain things is just government taxation out of control!  Why does my city require a $60.00 permit, just to install a chain link swinging gate that's NOT even attached to my house, nor is there a swimming pool on the property!   it's just to keep dogs corralled.   I'm get'n jacked by my local gub'ment!!!!Originally Posted by wroughtn_harvAnd we must never ever forget that the reasons for the codes is someone paid a horrible price for incompetence.  That four inch spacing thing in the handrails? Babies died to get that rule in place.  Non-climbable design on rails? Again, some babies died and we can eliminate the likelihood of it happening again.The building codes aren't about lawyers and covering our butts, it's about us not making the same mistakes that cause needless injuries to others.  We not only have the responsibility of doing good work, we have a responsibility to do it in a manner to protect the public from themselves most of the time.
Reply:Originally Posted by wroughtn_harvLocal government is all about your neighbors.  They don't want anyone hanging a gate in a place or a manner that affects their property values, kinda like parking dead cars on the lawn.  Community is about accepting that our actions affect others.  Some people  never get that and therefore rules have to be made and someone has to be paid to enforce those rules.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcI'd buy that argument if my dog gate was in view to the public.  It's in a rear yard, that's already enclosed and completely out of view from nosy neighbors.  The code inspector came to the backyard because of another issue (inspection check off of a patio addition attached to the house itself).  While in the back yard, he saw the dog gate project I'm building.  I'd equate the dog gate project to someone erecting a simple tool shed or a simple free standing firewood stand/shelf, bolted to an independent back yard concrete slab (not connected to the house foundation).   What's the difference here?  I'm going to challenge the (young) inspector.  My uncle is a retired building inspector for an adjoining city and he said that my inspector is full of $h!+ and doesn't know what he's talking about.  We shall see what happens on Tuesday when I go back to the city and speak to someone in charge. If they confirm that I need the permit, I'll get it then.