Aluminum tig

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started practicing some aluminum tig today. I've been told I need to add a little more heat. Any tips or comments on what I'm doing right or wrong would be nice. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Hard to really give any good info from that picture. It's too far away to see the beads really well. I'd agree some look like they could use more amps. the beads look like they may be a bit atall in places.It helps to post up good clear picts showing the welds themselves. Also post machine used, amps, thickness of material , filler size and any other info so that we don't have to guess..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Some welds look cold add more amps, also when nearing the end of the weld add more filler rod and taper of to stop those crater eyes. Other than that not to bad at all
Reply:Three more layers on that pad and you'll know the answer.  More wire brushing, and a few more amps than you need.If you taper off really slow and do a few tiny circles at the end you can eliminate the crater completely. Use up all the filler!Last edited by Brazin; 03-25-2014 at 06:35 PM.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by BrazinThree more layers on that pad and you'll know the answer.  More wire brushing, and a few more amps than you need.If you taper off really slow and do a few tiny circles at the end you can eliminate the crater completely. Use up all the filler!
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeReally, show me.
Reply:Looks pretty good for the first time welding alum.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by BrazinDo you want video or is a picture OK?
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeA pic will be fine.
Reply:Two with craters, two without.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:Damn weldermike you got served...Miller Syncrowave 210 w/CK FlexLoc 150  3/6/14ESAB PCM 1125 Plasma CutterAtlas 12x36 LatheACER 9x42 3hp millHarig 612 Surface GrinderDRINK Machine              welding&fabrication
Reply:I find the first layer to be much easier than subsequent layers. Welding sideways across existing beads changes the arc length and makes it really hard to keep the width consistent. also the base material starts to warp so it is no longer flat, but maybe that is from dunking it to cool it off. Anyway I am curious to know whether others practice by welding across existing beads or only go in line with them, because if you can put a nice bead down on lumpy material I clearly need to develop my technique.
Reply:Originally Posted by atgI find the first layer to be much easier than subsequent layers. Welding sideways across existing beads changes the arc length and makes it really hard to keep the width consistent. also the base material starts to warp so it is no longer flat, but maybe that is from dunking it to cool it off. Anyway I am curious to know whether others practice by welding across existing beads or only go in line with them, because if you can put a nice bead down on lumpy material I clearly need to develop my technique.
Reply:Originally Posted by chevydylDamn weldermike you got served...
Reply:Looks pretty good
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeYour kidding right. I wouldnt respond to those little worms and the craters are still there on two of them. And what happened to using the whole filler. Four little stubs, lol. Run a full pass right to the edge of the plate. Thats what i want to see.
Reply:Oh trust me i am far from perfect, im only human. I just like to see people back up there opinions with legitimate proof. And im not a stranger to ever admitting when i was wrong, its a good practice to follow. Helps build character. But those were not the examples i was looking foward to.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeOh trust me i am far from perfect, im only human. I just like to see people back up there opinions with legitimate proof. And im not a stranger to ever admitting when i was wrong, its a good practice to follow. Helps build character. But those were not the examples i was looking foward to.
Reply:Now now fellas knock the ego's back, and and let's get back to helping the guy learn how to weld aluminum.
Reply:Here, this guy is helpful.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:half overlap is what I was missing. So I have a v between beads that is like whoop de whoops with the torch. I will overlap more. Thanks for the tip.
Reply:Laying beads on a flat piece is only good for about the first hour of training. After that you need to set up some real joints and actually glue some stuff together. I teach people with just an on/off switch (read without foot pedal) and they learn probably 3-4 times as fast. The next thing i do is get some flat 1/4" or 1/8" "rulers" (strips left over from the shear) and set up a bunch of long corners. Welding yards of those inside and out will get your skills up quick. I know no one wants to hear it (agin) but ditch the foot pedal and get an on/off switch then once you understand how to control the bead with just your travel speed and the cooling effect of the filler then you can add variable amperage and take it to the next level.www.performancealuminumfabrication.com
Reply:There are many variables welding anything as is with aluminum. Aluminum is one of the tougher metals to weld and make look nice. But with lots of practicethat can be resolved. With any type of welding you need to present yourself with a challengewhen your practicing. Meaning you can simulate a condition you have in a real world application.laying beads is fine to start with but won't get you results required to complete a job. Leaving a crater for example......If your welding up an aluminum shopping cart a crater wont really cause you a huge issue like a hi vac fitting or fuel tank of some sort....All that nit pick stuff gets dealt with in time...So don't get stressed out when someone says "Hey man you left a crater"  I leave them all the time when Im welding production parts that just need to be stuck together and dont have sealing requirementsI don't even get bothered by that stuff.....   Last edited by B_C; 04-01-2014 at 12:59 PM.  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by travisc454Laying beads on a flat piece is only good for about the first hour of training. After that you need to set up some real joints and actually glue some stuff together. I teach people with just an on/off switch (read without foot pedal) and they learn probably 3-4 times as fast. The next thing i do is get some flat 1/4" or 1/8" "rulers" (strips left over from the shear) and set up a bunch of long corners. Welding yards of those inside and out will get your skills up quick. I know no one wants to hear it (agin) but ditch the foot pedal and get an on/off switch then once you understand how to control the bead with just your travel speed and the cooling effect of the filler then you can add variable amperage and take it to the next level.
Reply:Originally Posted by atgMaybe more than an hour but I take your point. I have been doing inside corners of 0.25" 6061 most recently and it is a huge amount harder than flat plate beads.   I was doing OK except for a contamination issue I think I have sorted out now; I thought I would stick a Kindle holder together so the kids can watch Jacques Cousteau on it and holy crap it turned into some sort of contamination disaster. I managed to throw a crappy cosmetic pass over a really oxidized and crappy root so it looks like a drunk person did it,  but what can I say I am still a neophyte paying dues. The back side of the vertical is less than 90 deg and was a real challenge for me to get root penetration on. I don't have a shear so have been cutting straps on a table saw,  which leaves a less than straight edge. What sort of abrasive do you guys use to sand edges, as the regular silicon carbide stuff seems ill-advised? Maybe I should just buy a hand shear.Dave, I sand aluminum all the time, I use a half dozen different sanders almost any wood sanding belt but the aluminum oxide? (blue) belts seem to work about as well as any. I spray all the belts and all the blades with 'pam' (frying pan spray vegetable oil) to keep them from loading and I run the rubber eraser blocks on them to clean them regularly.  When I'm done sanding a single or couple strokes with a Vixen file leaves a nice shiny cut edge to weld.  That includes curves or straight edges, after a band saw cut- I use the 6" belt and take off the saw kerf ridges then pull out the Vixen and stroke the edge on the way back to the boat or bench work. The flat of the belt sander's platen will work to high-low the cut and like a planer will help true up irregularities so the edge is flat or rounded if need be.Just before holding the piece back to the fit, I usually use an acetone wipe, and its ready to tack.  I don't care for the table saw for metal since the kick back is too much of a risk for an old guy like me, so I use the band saw more often than not. But sanding is sure something I do to fit parts, I use the Makita 1" belt and the 3/8" belt (electric file) to help with smaller pieces' fits and a 4" belt to dress edges if a router is not easy to rig for beveling and weld prep.Bruce, others just starting out; I don't think flat plate bead work is worth doing if you don't draw lines or scribe lines or something to orient the bead edge.  The beads that wander around because they're not aligned to something like a joint edge, are not good practice. If you practice the wrong thing, not keeping the torch aligned to the last puddle and not feeding the same amount of filler, then that's not very helpful.  I think the flat plate work should be done with scribed lines which is what you have when using a straight edged two piece joint.Without the sight reference, the puddles all seem irregular, wandering and semi-wasted time.  I know that just keeping the torch and filler and bead going is what has to be learned first, but practicing without real world reference of the puddle edge aligned to the work seems like it would be harder than with some reference lines.  my 2 centsCheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AK
Reply:Dave: cutting 0.5" Strips off a 6" wide sheet with a wood ripping blade,  just trying not to get impaled. Yes it is hard to keep the edge Strait. I had it set for 200 not laying into it though as the underlying weld was contaminated. It is only a 200 amp machine. I meant to throw down a single nice looking pass with some helium but the total flow was not enough. My welder is close enough to the wall that the fan was creating a breeze on the table. Kevin -  thanks man that was precisely the information I needed. I hear you on the kick back. Thanks for your encouragement and advice. I am on to practicing fillet joints now. Karl
Reply:Originally Posted by atgDave: cutting 0.5" Strips off a 6" wide sheet with a wood ripping blade,  just trying not to get impaled. Yes it is hard to keep the edge Strait.
Reply:a band saw is sounding pretty good at this point. thanks for the tip though I will get one.Last edited by atg; 04-04-2014 at 05:08 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by B_CSo don't get stressed out when someone says "Hey man you left a crater"  I leave them all the time
Reply:Just one suggestion.  Make a lot of small coupons and run one bead and set each aside.   You are preheating the aluminum running one bead next to another and changing the needed weld characteristics by doing that. So your amps, travel speed etc are constantly changing.  By doing it on separate coupons you are keeping the variables the same with each practice weld.   Preheat really affects aluminum welding characteristicsSent from my SCH-I545 using TapatalkTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterYou do?Not a good practice to be teaching anybody..Around here that's a automatic REJECTION!No iffs and or buts!Craters are the crack starters..Craters will not accept anodisation either..All that's left is a hole full of powder.When I did military stuff ANY crater found would result in a whole batch of rejected parts so cratersare NOT ACCEPTED in any situation.At least not in MY world anyway....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by BrazinBut craterless aluminum is impossible, we'll need pictures!
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterYou do?Not a good practice to be teaching anybody..Around here that's a automatic REJECTION!No iffs and or buts!Craters are the crack starters..Craters will not accept anodisation either..All that's left is a hole full of powder.When I did military stuff ANY crater found would result in a whole batch of rejected parts so cratersare NOT ACCEPTED in any situation.At least not in MY world anyway....zap!
Reply:Craters. Many years ago Linclone put in a giant *** 3phase tig welder in the shop. The big draw is it had a crater fill feature. The bummer is that  if you engaged the crater fill, you lost your preflow adjustment and the tunsgsten fouled quickly. The foot pedal had a very short range, so it needed the crater fill. It even left crater cracks. Sent it back.Last edited by shovelon; 04-04-2014 at 12:07 PM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawJust one suggestion.  Make a lot of small coupons and run one bead and set each aside.   You are preheating the aluminum running one bead next to another and changing the needed weld characteristics by doing that. So your amps, travel speed etc are constantly changing.  By doing it on separate coupons you are keeping the variables the same with each practice weld.   Preheat really affects aluminum welding characteristicsSent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Reply:Craters are UNACCEPTABLE in any application and I don't care who you are.If you worked for me then it's fix it or get out and I will replace you with someone that does it correctly the FIRST TIME.I learned the hard way.Sent a batch of stuff out when I did the military stuff with craters in it here and there for hard coat anodising that were not caught by the inspection dept. either before shipping  and when they came back?BOTH of us had the OWNERS foot up our aszes so far we could not walk for a week.Let alone what the foreman had to say about it...So for all of you out there learning this tig trade...DO NOT leave craters.It could cost you your job AND reputation....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterYou do?Not a good practice to be teaching anybody..Around here that's a automatic REJECTION!No iffs and or buts!Craters are the crack starters..Craters will not accept anodisation either..All that's left is a hole full of powder.When I did military stuff ANY crater found would result in a whole batch of rejected parts so cratersare NOT ACCEPTED in any situation.At least not in MY world anyway....zap!
Reply:Thanks Bill...Glad you understand but you never know who is reading and someone will make this a profession they can be proud of.....zap!Last edited by zapster; 04-04-2014 at 08:50 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Exactly, I normally do tail off and make sure there's no crater....ALL the semi conductor stuff was criticalbecause as mentioned at the bottom of that crater are cracks, and they do leak vacuum especially at 1x9-10....It would make me crazy but when you try to hurry craters happen.......Now I'm retired and the lifts don't fall apart the way I weld them up and I get lazy.......Sorry for making anyone think Craters are OKBut in my production world craters are common and they will continue to be as long as I can make more money by being quick.....   Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:After all you can't get paid 47.00 an hour and leave CRATERS..........  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveFunny  - but what I think Mike was originally getting at was just making circles and tapering off amperage doesn't necessarily fill in the crater without also adding another drop or two of filler.At least that's how I have to do it with my somewhat limited background.
Reply:Ok, well this all helped a lot. I'm getting there. Now my only problem is, say I'm doing a corner joint on some 1/8 aluminum. I always catch myself blowing right through it. But it's not like I'm putting the petal to the floor. I'm doing it just enough to get the puddle going. I was using 3/32 pure tungsten and 3/32 filler.
Reply:Originally Posted by bruceshultisOk, well this all helped a lot. I'm getting there. Now my only problem is, say I'm doing a corner joint on some 1/8 aluminum. I always catch myself blowing right through it. But it's not like I'm putting the petal to the floor. I'm doing it just enough to get the puddle going. I was using 3/32 pure tungsten and 3/32 filler.
Reply:Originally Posted by bruceshultisOk, well this all helped a lot. I'm getting there. Now my only problem is, say I'm doing a corner joint on some 1/8 aluminum. I always catch myself blowing right through it. But it's not like I'm putting the petal to the floor. I'm doing it just enough to get the puddle going. I was using 3/32 pure tungsten and 3/32 filler.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveAre you getting a nice clean puddle in 3 seconds or less?
Reply:Me too.  Nice and simple.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonThat's a really good rule of thumb Dave. Makes a whole lot of sense. I gotta remember that.
Reply:just a small lap joint. Tips?
Reply:butt joint.