long question with no pictures about towing devices.

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well plain and simple i have a 94 jeep grandcherokee and an sa200 my goal is to pull my sa200 with my jeep. problem being mainly rear springs arent capable of handling the load. i believe my solution is going to be buy a set of front coil springs (the rear is originally coil spring also) and move them to the rear. theyre taller and of a heavier load capacity so im hoping itll help the sag i get with the machine on it. next the machine is setup for a pintle hitch. i have thought of making a slide in "extension" thatll raise the height of the reciever roughly 2.5'' and will accept my solid mount pintle. is that an unsafe approach? i feel as though extending my tow point with a weak capapcity of roughly on a good day 300lb tongue weight and bringing it out another 4-6'' will put too much load on the reciever. i could be wrong though. if this approach is unsafe i was going to put a miniature gooseneck on the tongue of the machine as it has already been modified and very crudely i might add. id like some input before i attempt just so i know which approach is most applicable to this situation and why if possible. thanks
Reply:Sounds like the jeep isn't up to the task period. Odd tho because one would think a jeep could tow 1300lbs
Reply:Look into a load leveling or equalizing hitch(among other names). Those were popular when people were towing travel trailers with station wagons.Arcon Workhorse 300MSPowcon 400SMTPowcon SM400 x 2Powcon SM3001968 SA200 Redface1978 SA250 DieselMiller Super 32P FeederPre 1927 American 14" High Duty LatheK&T Milwaukee 2H Horizontal MillBryan
Reply:Originally Posted by blawlessLook into a load leveling or equalizing hitch(among other names). Those were popular when people were towing travel trailers with station wagons.
Reply:I'm trying to fid a solution because buying a vehicle is completely out of the question unless it's under 3-400$ I'd love to have the right truck but for my situation it's not sensible Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Not exactly in your neck of the woods, but I'd go talk to the guys at Mercer Spring in Trenton next time you are up that way.http://www.mercerspringcorp.com/They've done all our truck suspension work for years, both on full sized SUV's, the 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks all the way up to 10 wheelers and triaxles.  Quite a few of the heavy truck drivers in our area of PA use them even though they are across the river in NJ. I picked up the parts to upgrade the suspension on my suburban from them as well as having them do the front and rear springs on the 250. ( I've got the suspension for a 350  heavy duty dump under the 250 now) My guess is they can either get you the right rear springs, or possibly suggest airbags that may solve your issues.I know that when we changed out both the suspension on the suburban as well as the 250, it was amazing how bad the springs had gotten before we changed them over. I probably didn't need to go anywhere near as heavy as I did with either vehicle. However the only gauge I had was the stock suspension under the vehicle and how it handled. Back of the 250 came up almost 18" with the new springs, even when loaded. Front changed a bit less, but it was really noticeable when we hung the plow on it come winter and it didn't squat anywhere close to what it did. Front springs didn't change anywhere close to what we did on the rears, yet the loaded change was impressive.My guess is #1 your existing springs are shot. Even new stock springs would make a huge difference most likely. I'd be really careful about doing too many major changes on a vehicle with a high center of gravity like a Jeep. I know how much the drive changed on the 250 with the stiffer springs. I don't get anywhere near the roll that I used to, where I'd loose traction on the one side with the old springs in a corner under acceleration. However the ride is a lot bouncier and with no weight in the bed, the back end handles completely different than when loaded. Jeeps have an ugly tendency to roll as it is. I'd be really careful not to change too much for towing and have a vehicle that isn't really safe to drive under adverse conditions..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I agree. With the roll factor on the jeep I didn't want to change ride height just. More or less I want less sag in the rear. For now I think my best option is going to be replace the rear springs with front springs cut to keep same ride height if anything maybe 1" higher at max. Right now if I put the machine on the truck te rear tires tuck into the wheel wells. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:I'm still thinking airbags might be the solution. They should let you add suspension when heavily loaded, and return to "normal" when not towing..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Assuming the rear springs are leaf springs...............Find your local suspension specialist.  Here in Oklahoma, the best is Tulsa Spring.  Look under automotive/truck springs in the Yellow Pages, and find someone who does actual spring fabrication/re-arching/etc.All you need to do is add an additional spring to the rear spring pack.  A good spring shop can do this."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I'll give the place you recommended a call and see if they could help me out with airbags. You're more then likely right but right now I'm without a compressor unless I can air them up with a bicycle pump like the airbag in my race carSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Farmersamm they're coil springs. I wish it was leaf springs Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:http://www.yellowpages.com/long-isla...59?lid=4785359  somebody like these guysMy search was "truck spring rebuilders New Jersey""Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by strtspdlxFarmersamm they're coil springs. I wish it was leaf springs Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Now that this isn't changing ride height I either need to move receiver height up roughly 2" or move the attachment point on the machine down roughly 2" which would be best to do?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammMy search was "truck spring rebuilders New Jersey"
Reply:I'd just add a raised hitch. I have to do that with my F550 when towing since they put the receiver under the rear step for the bed. I think I have a 4" lift on the 2" ball and pintle I typically use. I could probably still use another 2-4" with some trailers.I had to add a 4" drop to the F250 after I did the rear springs. Again I've got a 2" ball and pintle on that truck. and a 3" drop on the 2 5/8" ball IIRC.Option 2 would be to mount an adjustable pintle ring on the trailer like Samm did to his recent build..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Now that you mention that adjustable pintle ring I may do that. I have a bunch of vehicles that at some point in life may pull the machine and it would be nice to not have to cut and weld everytime I need to use a different vehicleSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Pictures of what your working with would help since trying to imagine what your working with is tough. They do make air bags for coil springs too. Here is a link. http://www.airliftcompany.com/vehicl...b_model=LAREDO. As I said a picture is the only way to give any kind of real advice tho.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:When I get home I'll get some shots of what's going onSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Your jeep should handle about 2000 pounds gross trailer and 200 pounds tongue weight.  Are you sure you're over this, of are your rear springs just worn out?Last edited by Rock knocker; 06-11-2014 at 12:57 PM.Reason: missing digit on gross trailer weight
Reply:I think it's a combination if multiple things. New springs are 45$ so I just ordered a setSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:I used to tow a 21 foot boat behind my dad's full size Buick Park Avenue and the rear would bottom out at the top of the driveway. We replaced the original springs with a set of springs that were thinner on the top than they were at the bottom (or vice versa), I think they were called progressive springs. This solved the problem of the rear end bottoming out and the car road better than new without the trailer. They also have rubber wedges that you put between the coils to help the springs when under heavy load. Never used them, but it should work.http://www.etrailer.com/susp-2004_Je...d+Cherokee.htm
Reply:I thought the jeep tow rating was something like 4000lbs with a 500lb tongue weight. Your welder assuming it's placed on the trailer properly isn't much more weight than a small boat, try and get the tongue weight to about 10-15% of the total trailer weight (roughly 150lbs) and the jeep should have no trouble with it.
Reply:that's with a +2 pintle on the recieverSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:If you move the axles on the trailer to shift the bias of the weight off the tongue the. You should be in good shapeLast edited by Firemanmike69; 06-11-2014 at 10:57 PM.Originally Posted by Firemanmike69If you move the axles on the trailer to **** the bias of the weight off the tongue the. You should be in good shape
Reply:strtspdlxlong question with no pictures about towing devices.Your inquiry, and the recommended solutions are akin to: 'Interior Decorators' describing a color over the phone.Contrary to national perception - NJ - still has a vibrant agricultural industry . . .with support services.  I would take your hitch issues to a qualified/insured trailer professional in your greater neighborhood - AG to the Pine Barrens.Aside from Boilers - Hitches are the next highest insurance consideration . . .Opus
Reply:Old Jeep have a common problem... the springs, esp. passenger side rear, become weak and sag. There are many ways of correcting this, including replacing the springs with NEW (brand new) ones. I don't think they make a Weight Distribution hitch for the type of hitch you have, but they may. If you add an anti sway device (good thing to have, but...), you will have to deactivate it every time you want to back into a driveway or where ever. Too little sag with trailer is not a good thing, but too much sag is not good either, esp. on wet payment, or driving at higher speeds. Jeeps are not known for having real powerful brakes... you may want to consider adding electric brakes to the trailer as well as drilled rotors to the front of the Jeep (helps with brake heat). If you are going to be pulling this trailer much, you will probably drive in all kinds of road conditions, and traffic. Better to prepare for this BEFORE you have a problem, versus waiting until it's too late. Just my $0.02 worth.Qualified & experienced at welding scrap metal
Reply:Originally Posted by strtspdlxAttachment 741071 that's with a +2 pintle on the recieverSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Hitch bar is raised 2" already. Without it the bump stops are holding the truck up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:I had a 4 door full size Impala that I put Station Wagon Springs in for "load" capacity, it improved the cornering too!Took out the sway!My Dad drove a newer Monte Carlo at the time which when they hitched the "pop-up" Camper to it, loaded the trunk sagged terrible.He took my old Impala springs, unhooked the shocks, jacked it up, changed the springs, hooked the shocks back on, leveled the car nice! (total time was 45 min)Rode a little rough without load, so when they come back, he would reverse the procedure, till next year, when they would take the Camper again!Just do like you are thinking and swap out the rear coil springs with a slightly stiffer version.Put an adjustable hitch plate on the trailer for other vehicles to use also.
Reply:I tow a trailer with a lowered S-10.  The way I get around it is I put air shocks (not bags) in and I can raise the back enough to handle the load.  Only raises the back 2-3" with but enough to handle the extra weight to keep me off the bump stops.  I let the air out when not towing.  It was alot cheaper than helper bags and easier to put in.  It just replaced my stock shocks so the only thing I had to do extra was wire in an air compressor and air guage in cab to make it easier to add/let out air.  You could skip the compressor and guage but it would just leave an air chuck in the back than you would pump up manually.http://www.monroe.com/en-US/products/Max-AirJust another option to look at.
Reply:What does this machine weigh? Isn't the Jeep tow rated at 5000 lbs with load equalizing hitch? Weaver Distributing can advise you what you need. www.weaverd.com You'll need a ball hitch if you're a welder you can convert. I tow all the time with a 8600 LB van and a 9500 LB pickup a travel trailer, or auto hauler. I wouldn't dream of it without a load equalizer and sway control.
Reply:I'm not a professional welder. I did get my springs today I'm goin to attempt to out them in tonight and see if it helps at allSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by wroughtn_harvAbout the only peeve I have with Toyota is their advertising the Tundra as a truck and seeing idiots towing dump trailers and skid steers with one.
Reply:I met an old man with 4x4 four cylinder Tacoma who pulled an 8000 LB fifth wheel camper from VT to Alaska and back. He also had a weird black ABS drain pipe canoe rack badly sagged from the heat of the sun. It carried the canoe sticking way past the front of the truck to clear the camper. I can only imagine how the people behind him must have felt!
Reply:Well the rear springs did the trick. Thank god now I don't have to spend a fortune. I had to it nearly 4" off the new springs so they were same height as the old an they're still lifting the rear up above stock Height. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Reply:Your tongue is short, center of gravity is high. With good or bad springs, you'll go down the road like a porpoise. Rancho and Bilstein make shocks you can adjust to dampen this. Still consider load equalizer hitch, a long run will be much less exhausting.
Reply:keep in mind that when you cut a coil spring it get stiffer so quit while you are ahead.doesn't look too bad from here.  so long as it doesn't beat the crap out of you going down the road, i'd say it was "good enough"of course, i'd have probably said it was "good enough" before too, unless it was beating the tar out of me by being on the bumpstops.cheap easy "fix"
Reply:Yeah before loaded and unloaded the truck bounced all over the place. Now it's a lot more smooth and only slightly stiffer. Which is how it should be. I'm going to let the sprigs settle And if they need adjustment I'll do it. It only took me 20mins to do both sides. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk