Notching pipe ?

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Is it just me or shouldn't it be able to notch pipe with a drill press? Am I missing something here? I know some pipe is long and awkward to do this with a drill press. and getting angles on a long peice would be an issue. But if you're just doing short length, or straight notches, why couldn't you use a press?I have a hard time swallowing $150+ for something I should be able to do with the drill press I already have.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:google joint-jigger. works with hand drills tooBuy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:Try it, you'll seeyes, notching for 90 degree you can do on a DP but any other angle you'll need to rotate the table with the Vise so that the Tube is at the correct angle.Last edited by Broccoli1; 08-02-2011 at 09:07 PM.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:why dont you use a chop saw here is the chart that i use but it is for tube OD of tube being notched (in)                           OD of tube joined to (in)                           Initial cut angle (degrees) 2                                                                                      2                                                             301.75                                                                                1.75                                                          281.5                                                                                  1.5                                                            261.25                                                                                1.25                                                          22.51                                                                                     1                                                               201.75                                                                                2                                                               251.75                                                                               1.25                                                        451.25                                                                               1.75                                                           201                                                                                     2                                                              12Last edited by assassin_works; 08-03-2011 at 12:08 AM.Lincoln Power Arc 4000 Thermal Arc Fabricator 252 iThermal arc 186Thermal Arc 26 tigTweeko 200 amp spool gunHobart AirForce 400WP-17V-12R
Reply:The drill press I have has a rotatable deck, and it's not that hard to mount a drill press vice to the deck. So I'm still not seeing the benefit of buying a $175 unit (joint jigger) for something that I can do on my drill press. That conversion chart is nice. but from what I can see, only works for right angles. And correct me if I'm wrong, but using the chop saw still requires some inside grinding after the cuts. where as the hole saw will only require a clean up to the points to allow for better penetration.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Give the saw method a try.  I use it for pipe rail and do angles too.  Don't know what you are building. Once you calculate your cut schedule it is pretty easy and know clearing hole saws between cuts. It does not necessarily require inside grinding.  There are demo on this forum and youtube.    Also, depending on the quality of you drill press/chuck.  The hole saw might dance around.
Reply:I use this, most of the time in the drill press. But it can be portable and clamped to the end of any pipe and hand drilled. Works excellent!I have seen people use belt sanders, grinders, roto zips, and even die grinders to notch pipes of all kinds.
Reply:It doesn't work, the quill on drill press isn't designed to handle side loads. And the chuck is held on with a taper, they tend to fall off with side loads. I've notched on a milling machine before and that was still nowhere near the ease and accuracy of a good notcher. A good notcher is worth every penny. I'd recomend the one of the new style that can adjust over 180 degrees, like JMR or JD2. Attached ImagesIan TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerThe drill press I have has a rotatable deck, and it's not that hard to mount a drill press vice to the deck. So I'm still not seeing the benefit of buying a $175 unit (joint jigger) for something that I can do on my drill press. That conversion chart is nice. but from what I can see, only works for right angles. And correct me if I'm wrong, but using the chop saw still requires some inside grinding after the cuts. where as the hole saw will only require a clean up to the points to allow for better penetration.
Reply:Could one not build one of these, if cash was the problem but time wasn't? Some heavy angle crops, threaded rod, pillow block bearing, etc......Just a brain fart....edit: And I've notched on a DP and you can do it, but it kinda sucks. Better if the pilot bit, in the hole saw, is through the pipe to stabilize the cut. And the cut is not as nice; fine to MIG, not great for TIG. I would think the trying to cut a notch in a pre cut to length piece, with out the pilot drill engaged would be darn near impossible.  Just a rush of hypothetical ****e to the brain: What about wood blocks with holes at angles to guild the hole saw. Clamp tube to be notched in the vise with the wood block. Oak wood maybe. "V" notch to hold the tube. You'd of course need various blocks for different tube dia's and angle. But if your doing one size and one angle for a repeated job, then not an issue. Just thinking of the cuff, let the poo-pooing begin.........Last edited by bert the welder; 08-03-2011 at 12:40 PM.200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammerThat conversion chart is nice. but from what I can see, only works for right angles. And correct me if I'm wrong, but using the chop saw still requires some inside grinding after the cuts. where as the hole saw will only require a clean up to the points to allow for better penetration.
Reply:I made this one a few years ago when the only thing available was an ol' joint jigger. I don't think I would make my own today, back then I had more time than money (now, being self employed, I have neither).http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...1&d=1243388076Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:dont smoke, dip, drink, play golf, fish or anything else and eat can corn for one month and you should be able to get yourself a nice tube notcher. Beats doing it with a drill press.
Reply:dont smoke, dip, drink, play golf, fish or anything else and eat can corn for one month and you should be able to get yourself a nice tube notcher. Beats doing it with a drill press.
Reply:Save you money and go to a machine tool auction. Buy a horizontal mill and use roughing cutters. I can notch a piece of tube in 1-3 seconds better than any notcher made. Some people refer to the roughing cutters as corn cob cutters as they resemble a corn cob with thr roughing edge on the flutes.You will not find a faster and better method than this. Likely take a RPC to run the 3phase motor but boy will you be ahead of the game.Granthttp://jackalopefab.com/MM210Synchrowave 200DXMiller XMT350 w/60series feederMiller Bobcat 250 with SGA 100 and spoolgunHTP PlasmaFull Machine shop with everything
Reply:Originally Posted by jackalopeSave you money and go to a machine tool auction. Buy a horizontal mill and use roughing cutters. I can notch a piece of tube in 1-3 seconds better than any notcher made. Some people refer to the roughing cutters as corn cob cutters as they resemble a corn cob with thr roughing edge on the flutes.You will not find a faster and better method than this. Likely take a RPC to run the 3phase motor but boy will you be ahead of the game.Grant
Reply:Originally Posted by fortyonethirtyIf your gonna spend that kind of money, better just get the 5 axis laser and be done with it, perfect copes in about 5 seconds. Or one of these:http://www.dynatorch.com/TubeCutter.htm
Reply:Asinine is spelled with only one s. If you're gonna insult me, at least use correct spelling.I'd love to see this magical mill that makes notched tubes in 3 seconds. Also, does it come with elves to do the work for you?If you couldn't tell, I was being sarcastic and not actually suggesting that the OP go out and get himself a laser. Only trying to shed light on the fact that a milling machine is overkill.I suspect the rig to hold the tube in the mill would take more time to set up than the entire cut with a hole saw notcher.Secondly, I do know what I'm talking about. I've notched lots of tubes. I've used a roughing end mill in a milling machine to notch tubes. I've also used the belt sander type machine. I've used the cnc plasma type. And I've used the hole saw type. I've used a handheld plasma. I've used cut off blades on a angle grinder. I've even used a good ol' acetylene torch. I must admit that I have not used an actual laser only the plasma. And you know what? The Laser would be fastest, plasma second, the belt sander next, hole saw fourth, and the end mill destroyed the thin wall tube, so it failed me completely. Even the laser couldn't do it in less than 6 seconds, wanna see the video? However, the hole saw notcher blows all of these things out of the water because it is quick, accurate, and portable.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Here ya go, shim if a little bit if required and notch LIKE A BOSS!http://www.harborfreight.com/pipe-tu...her-42324.htmlWelding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Originally Posted by fortyonethirtyAsinine is spelled with only one s. If you're gonna insult me, at least use correct spelling.I'd love to see this magical mill that makes notched tubes in 3 seconds. Also, does it come with elves to do the work for you?If you couldn't tell, I was being sarcastic and not actually suggesting that the OP go out and get himself a laser. Only trying to shed light on the fact that a milling machine is overkill.I suspect the rig to hold the tube in the mill would take more time to set up than the entire cut with a hole saw notcher.Secondly, I do know what I'm talking about. I've notched lots of tubes. I've used a roughing end mill in a milling machine to notch tubes. I've also used the belt sander type machine. I've used the cnc plasma type. And I've used the hole saw type. I've used a handheld plasma. I've used cut off blades on a angle grinder. I've even used a good ol' acetylene torch. I must admit that I have not used an actual laser only the plasma. And you know what? The Laser would be fastest, plasma second, the belt sander next, hole saw fourth, and the end mill destroyed the thin wall tube, so it failed me completely. Even the laser couldn't do it in less than 6 seconds, wanna see the video? However, the hole saw notcher blows all of these things out of the water because it is quick, accurate, and portable.
Reply:Hopefully this will tide you over for the time being. Mine is even faster as the one here uses a standard size end mill that oscillates to the size of the tube. This is also much less rigid than an actual horizontal mill.I'm sure if you watch the actual notching of the tube you will see that it takes seconds.This machine is very expensive, but as I said, an old horizontal mill can be had pretty cheap. I sold a Clausing 8540 Horizontal mill for $300. I have bigger machines now but the Clausing was a dedicated machine solely for tube notching. Cheap AND effective.Last edited by jackalope; 08-06-2011 at 10:58 PM.http://jackalopefab.com/MM210Synchrowave 200DXMiller XMT350 w/60series feederMiller Bobcat 250 with SGA 100 and spoolgunHTP PlasmaFull Machine shop with everything
Reply:That works slick! Only problem is the tubing being notched has to be portable which is fine in most cases.
Reply:i vote plasma cut and horizontal mill being the fastest.........3rd best , clamp your ol'jonit jigger to your HEAVY welding table , use 500 rpm pnueamatic drill (lower rpm @ regulator for slower speeds) is the next best way , with light hand pressure its smooth and fast..........it will beat the **** out of even a BIG drill press dropping your 1/2 inch chuck out of the morse taper , even beats the hell out of 4000# pound vertical mills....watching your quill bounce up and down        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:Originally Posted by jackalopeI question your knowledge of anything you said in the above comment. I'd be tempted to say you haven't a clue about what you are talking about quite frankly!
Reply:Originally Posted by fortyonethirtyIf you question my knowledge on subjects on which I have commented, claims based upon my own experience, you're basically calling me a liar. I am not a liar. I suggest that you exaggerate the prowess of the horizontal mill. So what if it can quickly remove metal. It's not about the actual time spent cutting. It's every thing else. Like clamping the material down and setting the angle. Not to mention buying the thing at an auction. Moving it. 3 phase. Etc. Etc.I'd guess that the OP is a hobbyist, and doesn't want to set up a huge expensive machine just to build his project. The reason I lampooned your suggestion of using a horizontal mill, had nothing to do with the ability of the machine or your ability to use it, and everything to do with it being overkill and a waste of time.I have never used a holesaw to cope pipe so cant really comment there - but I'll put my hydraulic ironworker against any milling machine when it comes to coping or notching.  Takes about 90 seconds to change the die, slam the pipe in it and step on the pedal. POP and go to the next one or for a T  joint, roll the pipe 180 and pop it again.   There are lots of ways to get the job done - different operations have different requirements and budgets.  If you are going to be doing something on a near daily basis - like handrails - then you are going to invest in the highest volume production equipment possible.  If on the other hand it will be an occasional use item then you are going to look for what hits the budget the least,  not just purchase cost but operating costs as well.   I could just as easily have some one spend 10 hrs a day on an OA torch for a couple days to do 500+ foot of handrails - cutting nothing but saddles with a pipe wrap and a soap stone.  Then I am paying for gas + labor.  Instead I take a few hours and pay for a little electricity ( a lot of electric actually, 30 horse baldor like lots o juice).  It is all about what fits the operation.  If you do a lot of aluminum you invest in TiG, if you do a lot of sign work or decorative work then a cnc plasma might be in order.  All about cost vs use.When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives.
Reply:For repetitive t joints an ironworker is essential!Won't find any aguments from me there. Again, my suggestion was because a H mill can be had relatively cheap and it can put a notch in seconds and in any plane.Ironworkers absolutely DO have their place and for railings you would be hard pressed to turn a profit without one.http://jackalopefab.com/MM210Synchrowave 200DXMiller XMT350 w/60series feederMiller Bobcat 250 with SGA 100 and spoolgunHTP PlasmaFull Machine shop with everything
Reply:Originally Posted by fortyonethirtyAsinine is spelled with only one s. If you're gonna insult me, at least use correct spelling.
Reply:Originally Posted by briselec It's like being back in english class at high school.But I wouldn't recommmend it if you're ......
Reply:elves was funny......he gotcha ther        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:I can't believe we are still talking about notchin tubes and pipes. Hasn't this horse been beaten enough over the years? sometimes I quit reading the threads because of the crap that goes on back and forth. this one held onto me cuz it was only 2 pages.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:well... that did revert back to highschool didn't it. notching with the miter (rage 3) worked for the immediate need. though practice, is definately worth it's weight.but to go back to the original post. the complaint was the cost of a notcher, which was $175. why would I be interested in a $300 mill if I'm complaining about $175. Sorry to get into you're guy's pissing contest, but if you're going to argue about something, it should be in the parameters of the OP.As for the spelling corrections, If we cared about spelling/grammer than we wouldn't be working metal for a living. now would we.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Thors,  I apologize for derailing the thread! I went back and reread your OP and I see that you were trying to notch tube with presumably a hole saw and just clamping it against a drill press table??  If so, you will run into trouble. The table will have too much wiggle from side to side and the holesaw will bind up and damage it.  A simple notcher securely holds the tube and drill shaft fairly rigid and in close proximity to each other.  My original suggestion on a mill is a pretty inexpensive option in the end if you plan to notch tube. There was a Kearney Trecker h mill for $125 on ebay. It will run laps around even the high end video I posted a link to.  Granthttp://jackalopefab.com/MM210Synchrowave 200DXMiller XMT350 w/60series feederMiller Bobcat 250 with SGA 100 and spoolgunHTP PlasmaFull Machine shop with everything
Reply:Here is the video made by jackalope showing the horizontal mill in action.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:My first notcher was from Pro Tools, worked good but took some time to build a roll cage.  Sold that to a friend and bought the Mittler Bros. Ultimate notcher.  I like it a lot, but after seeing that Baleigh's design, kinda makes me think about that one too.  Maybe if the jobs were coming in more like several years ago, I'd probably get that one too.    I'm sure that you will be fine with, cutting, plasma, hole saw, chop saw.  Just depends on how many you are doing, and how fast you want it done.   Good luck with  your journey.---No good deed goes unpunished---
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Try this thread about the Chop saw methodhttp://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtal...=tube+notching