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The man teaching me spent about an hour going over basic tools and explained what they did just so I'd have some familiarity with what did what. We looking at some of the projects he's made over the years and he explained why he made them and how. After that, we started cutting. I cut the same piece of scrap metal using a few different tools. The portaband saw intimidated me. It's heavy and extremely awkward. I was able to cut with it after he showed me a few tricks. I think I liked using his chop saw best. Even more so after he showed me a few tricks to cutting small pieces on it so one of those is going on my list of tools to look for used and.... some I'll need to add metal files to my list too. --^ I cut that piece of scrap metal by myself. Last edited by Equilibrium; 05-23-2014 at 10:36 AM.Reason: adding something
Reply:After that he let me start welding. --Warning.... the photos to follow aren't exactly "purty". They will make quite a few of you wince with pain so.... just remember when looking at them that this was the 1st time I ever tried welding anything in my entire life. --Attachment 724841Attachment 724851These photos are of me trying to learn how to tack scraps of metal together. Attachment 724861Attachment 724871
Reply:Pics won't open bud.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:These photos are of the scrap that I practiced on next. I was so thrilled I was actually welding something that I took it home. I'm going to glue felt onto the bottom of it and use it as a paperweight. My paperweight shows off everything I did wrong so I like it. My husband said I was on my way to doing something productive.... some day. He's right.... about another 100 hours of practice and I should be "on my way" to fabricating something functional.Last edited by Equilibrium; 05-23-2014 at 11:29 AM.Reason: trying to add photos
Reply:Bummer. They must be having server problems because I tried to add more photos using that little picture icon and it won't let me.... it keeps saying I can only load 5 photos per post and all I was trying to load was one. I'm taking the photos right from my computer so they're not coming from any photobucket or anything. Maybe they'll show up later after somebody fixes something? I'll come back and try to add the last photos of my paperweight later on.
Reply:Pics that are NOT shown above..Your Welcome!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Your teacher is a cruel man. Trying to teach you how to weld on a dirty steel is like trying to teach a person how to ride a bike with flat tires.http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabYour teacher is a cruel man. Trying to teach you how to weld on a dirty steel is like trying to teach a person how to ride a bike with flat tires.
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabYour teacher is a cruel man. Trying to teach you how to weld on a dirty steel is like trying to teach a person how to ride a bike with flat tires.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeAnd the seat missing.
Reply:My next lesson is next week sometime. I have no idea what we're going to do but I'm looking forward to going. I can honestly see why this is so addictive to hobbyists..... it's flat out fun even when you're screwing up royally. --zapster> thank you.--ZTFab> Hmmmm.... maybe learning on rusty steel is akin to learning how to ski in the Midwest on compacted snow and icy slopes instead of powder..... if one can be taught how to ski well enough to handle a black diamond trail in this area.... one can ski anywhere in the world. Seriously.... the man has the patience of a saint. I had no clue what I was doing and I can guarantee that if you had me as your student.... you'd be looking around for free scrap too. To be honest with you.... he's teaching me out of the goodness of his heart and I'd much rather learn from someone who welded professionally for 40 years than end up stuck in a classroom setting where I'd feel like an absolute idiot. I had no idea welding required the fine motor skills it does and let's just say it was a challenge for me even trying to see what I was welding from underneath a helmet what with my horrible vision. The poor guy probably waited for me to drive away from his barn then walked over to his house and banged his head a few times on his brick for "volunteering" himself. --Welding is NOT going to be a walk in the park for me. I had a healthy respect for welders before I got to try my hand at welding and now I have an even healthier respect for all you guys.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterWhew!That is NOT what I expected from you at all......zap!
Reply:"And the seat missing." "Just the post..." --Evidently no good deed ever goes unpunished. FWIW... I wouldn't want me as a student... not for any amount of $$$ and I've taught at a college level before and have some knowledge of how hard it can be teaching an individual who walks in with zip nadda no skill set what soever.
Reply:Only funning. You will be fine in time. Once you get your hand eye coordination down and consistent travel speed, and arc length everything else from above will come more into play and critical. Keep at it as I'm sure you know it's gonna be a bumpy road and both your efforts will eventually come together.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Originally Posted by EquilibriumZTFab> Hmmmm.... maybe learning on rusty steel is akin to learning how to ski in the Midwest on compacted snow and icy slopes instead of powder..... if one can be taught how to ski well enough to handle a black diamond trail in this area.... one can ski anywhere in the world. Seriously.... the man has the patience of a saint. I had no clue what I was doing and I can guarantee that if you had me as your student.... you'd be looking around for free scrap too. To be honest with you.... he's teaching me out of the goodness of his heart and I'd much rather learn from someone who welded professionally for 40 years than end up stuck in a classroom setting where I'd feel like an absolute idiot. I had no idea welding required the fine motor skills it does and let's just say it was a challenge for me even trying to see what I was welding from underneath a helmet what with my horrible vision. The poor guy probably waited for me to drive away from his barn then walked over to his house and banged his head a few times on his brick for "volunteering" himself. --
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabI come from a family of educators, my Father is a College Professor at USC, Pasadena City College, and an adjunct professor at Claremont Colleges. My Grandfather was Superintendent of multiple school districts, My Grandmother was a High School English Teacher, My Uncle a Superintendent, My aunt a Principle, ...I think you get the point.
Reply:I'm not so sure that the welding itself is 10-20%, I'd say higher than that, but prep and fitup are very important. The difficulty of fitup varies dramatically from one project to the next. In the case of those pieces of channel it appears there wasn't even a consistent gap - and I don't know whether the goal was to have one or not. That was one of the easiest setups to do, as well - think of a few pieces of round tube coming together if you want some idea as to complexity. Of course, I've seen excellent welders make good welds with poor fitup, but in general it's better to spend a little more time on fitup so the weld comes out even better.Lincoln 175HD
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcI get the point! So you're telling us that you were the "black sheep" or the "step child" of the ZT family gene pool..... Right???
Reply:Day one, your instructor is setting several bad examples for you. As pointed out the rust should have been removed from at least the weld zone area. You should have been taught to bevel the edges on the channel before butt welding them together. If that uni-strut has some type of zinc plating on it, you most definitely shouldn't have been welding on it.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:"fire, ready, aim".. Prep is tedious and boring."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:It doesn't sound like a real lesson to me. It sounds like letting someone play with a chop saw , a portaband , and a welding machine. Grab a piece of steel from a scrap bin, lay it on the table and try welding. It was not a lesson in melt prep or fabricating, just letting someone try welding without buying their own machine, tools, or material to see if they would enjoy it. They have real courses for learning to weld. I once had the owners kid come out of the office and ask if he could try welding. He did ok until his tie caught on fire. "fire, ready, aim".. Prep is tedious and boring. That's why stick is nice , too much BS with mig but it is fast and great on thinner material.
Reply:Originally Posted by Equilibrium... I had no idea welding required the fine motor skills it does ...
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterPics that are NOT shown above..Your Welcome!...zap!
Reply:@ Equilibrium - Cool. A human's launched you into the journey of welding/fabrication. To expand on ZTFab's comment (post #15), drag'n the stick, pulling the trigger, dip'n the filler is ~ 10% of the process. Solid setup, fit up, and plan of attack PRIOR TO welding separates the ladies from the girls. Please ask your sensei "why?" on everything, before your arclight. Absolutely critical for you to know the "why" before the "how". Rule # 1 for GMAW (MIG) and GTAW (TIG) is clean, shiny metal. TextBook. Can you do it without cleaning? Sure. Is it the right course of action? No. As in any line of work or professional career, seek out added 'options' for training if, in fact, you caught the "iron bug". Enroll in your local CC for stick "101" training and learn the pros/cons of all things metal. Not knocking your instructor. Awesome he's willing to show you the ropes. Just check'n in to make you stay enlight'n Ask ANYTHING you want here. There are many:many pros/hobbyists/learners that are willing to support your endeavor. Hood down..."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Great to see you learning a new hobby or profession, but you certainly shouldn't be welding that zinc-coated Unistrut without proper respiratory protection. I've got a guide somewhere on my computer for the required respiratory protection type for all sorts of different welding of materials using different processes, I will see if I can dig it out.weldermike> I think you nailed half my start up problems
. hand eye coordination. Im going to have to keep at it until I find work arounds for vision loss in my left eye. Its costing me my depth perception and to boot Im right handed. I think the travel speed is simply practice
then practice more
. then practice even more and more. I would think the arc length should become more consistent once I discover a work around for the depth perception issues. These arent things I can be taught
. Im going to have to keep at it until I stumble across them on my own. Like you said
. its going to be a bumpy road. Things will eventually start clicking for me. --ZTFab> There is MUCH more to welding than just sticking two pieces of metal together. Youre right of course but
. sticking those two pieces of metal together sure made my day. --slotard> It went something like this
.I accidentally hit the trigger and had to flip up the helmet to cut down the wire which is a feat unto itself with heavy gloves on. Then I hit the channels with the glove I was wearing and had to flip up the helmet to align them. While doing that I hit the trigger again and had to trim the wire down again so by the time I accidentally hit the channels a 2nd time
. Id already hit the trigger a 3rd time and the poor guy teaching me nipped it back down so I figured the gap was meant to be and just started tacking. It was a comedy of errors
all because I was focused on trying different hand positions. This too shall pass. --think of a few pieces of round tube coming together Uh uh
. no way
. Too much of a brain drain right now when Ive yet to figure out which hand position is going to work best for me.--Dan> I recently scored two 4 ½ grinders thanks to my neighbor who knew I was looking for them used and found some at a flea market!!!! They came with some discs so Ill make sure Im taught how to use them
. some day soon. Until then
. I think its best I continue practicing on free scrap
. I just want to keep this fun for now and the good news is
. I always learn a lot from poor choices and mistakes. Granted
. some mistakes arent so much fun that Id like to make them again but
. theyre all part of the learning process and besides which
. Im up to date on all my shots including tetanus. I dont know that I own a tool that bevels edges
.. maybe I do and all I need is the right disc. Im just starting out
every welding tool I own fits in a large cat litter box. --Sandy and BD1> "fire, ready, aim".. Prep is tedious and boring. Yes!!! People beside weldermike who understand where Im coming from. I was literally chomping at the bit waiting to get my hand on that welding gun
. I can be horribly impatient. I really wouldnt wish me on anyone. I just wanted to keep welding and even more so after I started getting a feel for the process and realized I wasnt going to burn myself up
that was right about the time I saw how late it was and had to go start dinner but
not before I said, just one more line. --Oldendum> Dont you know that when you post like that
. youre supposed to provide a spew alert warning so people dont end up with whatever theyre drinking in their keyboard!!! Ill hold your beer anytime you want to show off your welding skills
. after which, Ill expect to be rewarded with some scrap metal and some time on your welding gun. --Gobysky> It was galvanized. No worries, I had safety gear and we were welding where there was ample ventilation. --ManoKai> Cool. A human's launched you into the journey of welding/fabrication. Ya
. it is way cool. I think for now Im going to just play on scrap though
. for as long as it takes. I feel the need to find a comfortable hand position and really wouldnt want to start an actual project. I will admit Ive got my eye on a few though. --There will be plenty of time to learn Solid setup, fit up, and plan of attack. Everybody needs play time
. even big girls. --RSD> Im retired. Im doing this for me because its something Ive wanted to learn how to do for a long time. I have a 3M 7502 that I use for woodworking that I bought replacement filters and cartridges for. Incredibly, it fits right under a helmet. I was told I didnt need a dedicated respirator for welding and that I could use the one I already owned when working on stainless or galvanized steel. I specifically asked because my ultimate goal is to be able to build stackable rabbit housing out of stainless steel from my own design. Thank you for offering to dig out your guide. Id really like to see it please. Ill private message you my e-mail address. --Everybody> Here's hoping each of you has a wonderful Memorial Day!!! Looking forward to seeing everyone in another thread.
Reply:Overall, I think the "teacher" for Equilibrium gave her just a "taste" of joining two pieces of metal together. It's like when handing a person with ZERO firearm experience, a fully automatic machine gun for the first time, just to let that someone feel what it's like to hold the trigger down and go B A A A A A A A A A A A A A A ANG! There's no teaching in marksmanship, proper gun handling, or anything like that. The experience was just for a "thrill" and one-time FUN!!!!!Another analogy is when some of us as children had the privilege of a parent placing us in their lap out in the desert to "drive" the family truck for the first time at a young age. We didn't actually drive, nor learn ANY rules of the road either. We just had a great time with our hands on the wheel, while dad worked the gas, brakes and yes....the steering wheel too. It's all just a "taste" of an experience, so I "get it" here with what the OP's mentor did with her. None of us learned anything about "driving" under the above circumstances as young children now, did we? So, I'll be easy here on the guy that was "teaching" (bad terminology) the OP anything about welding. He was just letting her "drive that car" for the first time. He let her stick a couple pieces of metal together, nothing more, nothing less. At least that's how I viewed it and saw no harm done. It was the style he used that day and he got her hooked on it. I'd call that a "success." My wife has ZERO care to grind steel, brush away rust or any metal prep. She just wanted to cause sparks (with metal) and her own "stinger." She was thrilled when she joined an arm rest back onto her rusted garden chair. To her, it was a super glue fix with slag inclusions as her take-home souvenir. Now it's time to really "learn it" from here on out and learn the basics of welding if the OP so desires. Welcome to the "hospital" Equilibrium, you've been infected with our disease! "Treatment" only gets more and more costly. Last edited by SuperArc; 05-25-2014 at 05:12 AM.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller 625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Dan and Paul ( ZT) are probably among the best of the mig welders here. If you want to see really pretty work, any of their threads are well worth a look. Pauls picts of the detailed prep that goes into his stuff is a work of art and worth extra mention.I'll start with the glove comment. You might want to go to the local welding supply and browse the gloves. Not all gloves are created equal. I absolutely despise the "standard" heavy welding gloves for anything but heavy stick or cutting. I prefer the Tilman 42 gloves for most stuff. They are thick enough I can work with mig and stick students, yet thin enough I can still work with most tig students. I also have them order in those gloves in medium since they don't stock them. I have short fingers and the medium gloves fit better than the Large ones they stock. Smalls just don't quite fit. You may find a lighter pair a bit easier to work with. Most students I find that want/need heavy gloves have a tendency to pick up hot metal with their hands. A very bad habit for several reasons. $1 it destroys the gloves. #2 if you have on a wet or really sweaty set of gloves, the moisture can flash to steam and give you some serious burns. The fronts of your fingers and palms can take a fair amount of heat because of calluses, but the back of you hands has almost no heat tolerance. Take it from someone who was unlucky enough to have serious burns over 90% of his lower right arm at one point. The worst areas were those that get almost no exposure on average, inner wist and back of my hand. If you need to handle hot metal, use tongs or pliers, not your hands. I tell students if a piece is cool enough to handle bare handed, it's cool enough to weld. If you only handle metal with bare hands, you quickly learn not to pick up hot metal...Now on eye sight and stickout. There have been a number of threads from people with limited eyesight or vision in only one eye done here in the past. You might want to look up some of them and see if any had some good suggestions. I'm too tired to think of any off the top of my head right now. One key that I tell students is good hand and body position. Take advantage of things like a table or even a rest so you can rest your hand on it while welding. This can give you a nice stable platform to give you consistent results. I've done demos where I look at the student while welding a bead. The point being I can often do a more consistent bead than they can free hand simply by using the table as a support. even if I'm not looking. Once your body has developed the muscle memory and your mind has picked up all the subtle clues it needs, then free hand work becomes easier.I'm not quite sure how loss of your left eye and being right handed tie together right now. I know how important eye dominance is with shooting and whether you shoot right or left handed. I have a tough time many times getting archer students at 4-H to learn to shoot "left handed" even if they are righties. They are left eye dominant, so they need to shoot left if they want to be any good. I do know eye issues will force you to change. Another archery instructor I know has significant sight loss in his right eye due to an illness. He has almost no depth perception now and has had to teach himself to shoot left because of the damage to his dominant right eye, making his left dominant now. I'm not sure how your instructor is teaching you mig. Whether he's teaching you to "push" or "pull" the bead. We teach "pushing", so if you are right handed, you weld from right to left. To see well you get you body out in front of the torch and look down the barrel, making which eye you use sort of mute. I can go into why we push vs pull with gas mig later if you want when I'm not dead tired....No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by Equilibrium--slotard> It went something like this….I accidentally hit the trigger and had to flip up the helmet to cut down the wire which is a feat unto itself with heavy gloves on. Then I hit the channels with the glove I was wearing and had to flip up the helmet to align them. While doing that I hit the trigger again and had to trim the wire down again so by the time I accidentally hit the channels a 2nd time…. I’d already hit the trigger a 3rd time and the poor guy teaching me nipped it back down so I figured the gap was meant to be and just started tacking. It was a comedy of errors… all because I was focused on trying different hand positions. This too shall pass. -- I don’t know that I own a tool that bevels edges….. maybe I do and all I need is the right disc. I’m just starting out… every welding tool I own fits in a large cat litter box. Looking forward to seeing everyone in another thread.
Reply:To the OP regarding the 1 eye depth perception thing. I am blind in my right eye and am right handed. When possible I weld in the direction of my good eye. Probably the biggest issue for me is when welding in a position where I am welding 2-3 feet away from my head. I welded for 10-15 years with a non AD helmet and the switch to an autodark waslike night and day as far as positioning to start the weld.Miller xmt304, Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:Originally Posted by EquilibriumI have a 3M 7502 that I use for woodworking that I bought replacement filters and cartridges for. Incredibly, it fits right under a helmet. I was told I didn’t need a dedicated respirator for welding and that I could use the one I already owned when working on stainless or galvanized steel.
Reply:Good points SuperArc. One thing that gets regularly overlooked with masks though is good fit. 3M makes these masks in different sizes to fit different face "types". A woman may find a standard "large" mask doesn't really fit her face well. A Medium or Small might be more appropriate depending on the shape of her face. Facial hair probably isn't an issue with women ( unless you are one of those hairy Italian women with a handle bar mustache... ), but for guys it's a real issue to keep in mind. While any filter is better than none, a poor fitting face mask really isn't much better than nothing.Most retailers can't really help you fit a respirator. However some companies do have Safety people who know how to fit them up ( I work at one job at a chemical factory where fit up for one was mandatory when you walked in the plant to do any work) and some specialty stores that specialize in work place safety equipment may have staff who are knowledgeable. If you ever have the chance to get fitted, or talk to some one who really knows how to fit one, it's a very good idea to do so, if nothing else, so you know how or what size to get later..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:26:45