What do you use a "pattern cutter" or pantograph for?

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Just a question thats been bugging me lately.  I can understand the shape-cutters I see on ebay that follow a drawing, but curious how you actually use a pantograph that just follow a pattern?
Reply:The pantograph follows a pattern and enlarges it to whatever the operator set it at. IIRC they have a drive wheel that goes over the pattern at a peed that is adjustable in order to control cut speed.
Reply:Hello greenbuggy, there are a number of companies that manufacture magnetic pattern cutting systems. This is the "low dollar" method to being able to cut multiple items of the same size and shape from like or different thicknesses if desired. The stylus on these machines is magnetic, thus it will stick to and follow a steel pattern. The ones that I have been around use a 1/4" diameter stylus, you need to make your pattern  a 1/4" smaller on the outside if you are doing outside tracking and a 1/4" larger if you are doing inside tracking. If you wish to be even more exact you need to allow for the kerf of the particular torch tip that you are using. Google "Heath" or "Victor" pantograph cutter, you will likely be able to figure out how these systems work. If you don't want to invest in a high-dollar pattern cutter these might be the answer. Best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:Actually it's half of the stylus or "rotor" diameter that needs to be compensated for.For example, when using an 1/8" rotor, that's a 1/16" "growth" or "shrink" to be concerned with. Combined with typical kerf widths, the 1/16" change is often a non-issue for many flame-cut shapes. In most ideal technical theory, the rotor simply magnetically clings to a pattern and follows its shape. However, in actual practice, the operator sometimes applies gentle hand pressure to give the rotor "traction" to follow complex shapes, or if using non-ferrous patterns.Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 10-08-2011 at 11:33 PM.
Reply:Plasma pantograph3d wood pantographWeldandpower Lincoln 225 AC,DC with Briggs 16hp gas engine.WW2 era Miller TIG.
Reply:GBM, I like that vid of the plasma pantograph. Might have to add that to my list of things to build. I've got an old wooden one I used to use years ago to enlarge drawings before the large format copiers were as readily available. I may have to dig it out and duplicate it in steel for my plasma..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Looks pretty complicated to me. When I need to hand cut a part....or multiple parts...I will make a template out of carboard or thin plywood....or metal, and put the hand plasma (with shielded drag consumables) in my hand and cut the part.  There are still some companies that make the magnetic tracer type machines for use with plasma or oxyful....but for about $1000 more you can buy a 2 x 2 torchmate cnc machine....much higher productivity and accuracy.Jim Colt   Hypertherm Attached Images
Reply:the pantogragh machines i've used are all used for lettering to make I.D. plates, black&white adhesive signs and lettering cores and cavities.in the past i've also ran the old multiple head tracer mills and tracer lathes that use a stylus and template or model...tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:The use that I think most people would relate to is the engraving of initials onto a bracelet or other piece of jewelry. One side is used to trace a fancy version of a name or word and the other scribes it into the bracelet.Knife makers (some of them) use them to for inlay work in handles. Two patterns, the inside and outside and when cut the pieces fit together exactly.
Reply:Jim, the advantage of a properly designed and executed Pantograph is that it can Enlarge or Reduce the final output without needing to change the original model, template or pattern. Most videos show one half or doubling.. but any percentages of either can be built into the pantograph by the choosing of the hole distances. It just occurred to me that if the pivot pins were an item by themselves... then they could clamped to the frame anywhere... making truly infinitely variable size changes.... rather than being determined by the hole spacing...   Just by changing a couple of pins or bolts.... like with PDF hitting the ' percentage' size increase or decrease... to fill the space you want it to.....almost that easy. DSW,   I included that wood video because as metal workers it is easy to experience ' persistence of set ' as they call it in psychology..... this guy makes gears and all sorts of things out of wood which would normally be made from metal.... If one uses bearings at the proper places a wood pantograph working a plasma cutter could work really well for less cost of construction ( and easier to tweak ) than metal... or used to build mock up to copy to metal construction...   Bob, I was thinking about that... two patterns for closer fit... was thinking about making some locking jigsaw puzzles like that so take up the slack of the plasma kerf...   I guess they would then be called plasma puzzles since they would not be cut with a jigsaw....LOL  " For $1000 " ... LOL... I had to really stretch to justify the $500 I spent on my used L-Tec .... I did not need it... but I WANTED IT !!!!    LOLWeldandpower Lincoln 225 AC,DC with Briggs 16hp gas engine.WW2 era Miller TIG.
Reply:I'm guessing that Greenbuggy was asking about a direct-following pantograph, which duplicates at 100% size (+/ - rotor) only. Such a  "pantograph" frame  basically acts only as a precision hinge to guide the torch's movements  directly from the piece to be duplicated.The pantographs are very versatile, precise, simple, and rugged.  Clamp in the sample and in minutes a perfect duplicate is being produced - right down to wear or imperfections in the original pattern's shape. These pictures aren't the best Ultragraph examples, because its just a simple shape and the object was to get the maximum number of parts out of the stock, rather than to duplicate a very complex shape. Anyway, the pics show Ultragraph's method.S pattern was followed to cut the straight lines.D pattern was followed to cut the delta shapes. C pattern was followed to cut the circles.I've wondered about a low-end CNC table, as Jim Colt mentioned. However, I have a feeling that for non-production maintenance work, the set-up and programming time investment required for duplicating just one piece, of some complex shaped part, would void most of the usual CNC benefits. Another point for Ultragraph is that they are also available in a small portable version too. Thus making for a virtual precision burning shop, all held in one small tool box, ready to be used anywhere.Good Luck.Last edited by denrep; 10-09-2011 at 11:50 AM.
Reply:There are still some magnetic tracer machines on the market....not very popular in the US, but the Chinese love them. Koike used to make one of these...as did Esab.....and TorchMate actually got their start by producing kits to build these....picture attached.The part shown in DenReps pics...looks like a lifting lug....can be drawn in the CAD drawing package that came with my PlasmaCam....and my Torchmate cnc machines in less than 2 minutes. Then you simply load the plate and push the start button. If you want one.....or if you wnat a hundred. The new generation of low cost cnc machines are easy to learn, easy to use....and save a tremendous amount of layout time even if you are making one part. Pictured also is a bracket I made...only needed one....out of 1/4" plate. I spent about 25 minutes drawing it, about 3 minutes plasma cutting it...then another 20 minutes or so drilling the holes (with a cobalt drill to bring them to the rights size for 1/4"-20 tapping....this paractice also removes the hardened edge). I think layout on a single part like this would have taken a fair amount of time...probably the CAD drawing was quicker and more efficient....and definitely accurate.Don't get me wrong...I love these mechanical gems (pantograph)....but technology has evolved.Jim Colt Attached Images
Reply:HI Here is a Pattern cutter I built many years ago.  I can email plans to anyone if you would like them.  I have converted it to Plasma with a machine torch but have not finished the motor speed controller yet.  I use either magnet or manual tracing the video shown manual.   Have funTom    [email protected] for plans. Last edited by acourtjester; 10-09-2011 at 01:18 PM.Reason: spelling
Reply:"but technology has evolved."--Jim ColtThe Poor are just trying to reach the ability to utilize their plasma cutters in a reasonably efficient fashion.. Comparing the abilities of the machines you list without any indication of the price ... which I think is the main thing holding some people back from having them.... sort makes an incomplete open ended arguement.... In your last example.... lets say I substitute a cheap alternative to part of it... I draw on plywood or hardboard the piece I need with the ' seam allowance' for my plasma cutter to leave the size object I need..... It has three holes in the middle ...which probably means using a drill press and JIGsaw instead of drill press and BANDsaw.... so that would be longer... but when I got through.... if I needed them a little larger or smaller..... a change in buttons on the pantograph following the original plywood cutout... would accomplish any size change I needed....If it was the right size then I just repeat for many times until I get too much wear on the edges of the pattern... how long that would be I do not know..     Pretty cheap, straight forward  ( no learning CNC computer skills ) and repeatable.... for us guys who can not ,at this time, afford the Cat's Meow ...which I can see your system is...Weldandpower Lincoln 225 AC,DC with Briggs 16hp gas engine.WW2 era Miller TIG.
Reply:"The Poor are just trying to reach the ability to utilize their plasma cutters in a reasonably efficient fashion.. Comparing the abilities of the machines you list without any indication of the price ... which I think is the main thing holding some people back from having them.... sort makes an incomplete open ended arguement.... "I understand completely....have been fabricating metal for over 40 years....and when I first started I wanted everything...but did not have the means! I think pantographs are nice....and certainly are afforable....and great devices if the parts you make are copies of a pattern. And, I agree fully that you can build a pantograph for far less than you can buy or build a cnc machine.Just wanted to make the points that:-cnc plasma machines are easy to learn, easy to operate, and are less expensive than a used fishing boat. A 2 x 2 cnc plasma can be had for less than $3k.-contrary to popular belief...layout time is generally more time consuming than CAD drawing a part....so drawing and cutting one part with a cnc is cost effective with todays easy to use machines. If you want...you can trace a part you want to copy....scan it....save it into your computer as a bitmap....and convert it to a cut program in minutes....very easy.-I bought my PlasmaCam machine for under $10k (I already had the plasma)....and told my wife it would "pay for itself". Yuk yuk! To my surprise....working a few nights and weekends doing local work...it paid for itself in less than 6 months. She did not complain when I bought a second machine..the Torchmate. Jim ColtLast edited by jimcolt; 10-09-2011 at 01:43 PM.
Reply:Ok Jimwhat is th ecost of these software packages???contrary to popular belief...layout time is generally more time consuming than CAD drawing a part....so drawing and cutting one part with a cnc is cost effective with todays easy to use machines. If you want...you can trace a part you want to copy....scan it....save it into your computer as a bitmap....and convert it to a cut program in minutes....very easy.The convert to cut name pleaseTom
Reply:Denrep, mine is called a Camograph. It was built by Airco. Works great but I hardly ever use it. When I do, I usually build wood templates, like you mentioned. I sand them smooth and just hold the motorized magnetic wheel against the wood as it drives itself around.I've mainly used it to cut thick plate for heavy equipment parts but I've decided recently to just sell it as I hardly ever use it any more. Attached Images
Reply:The software I use for drawing and for converting scanned images to cut files is PlasmaCam....it comes with PlasmaCam machines. I also use the Torchmate CAD software which comes with their machines. When I got my first PlasmaCam machine (over 10 years ago) I had never done any CAD drawing. I followed the directions, assembled the machine...then sat down at my office computer with the PlasmaCam software loaded...and followed step by step through the tutorial on CAD drawing. I drew my forst CAD part ( a simple rectangle with 4 bolt holes) wihin an hour...and went out to the shop and succesfully cut it.Today...it is so intuitive that....when I am fabricating anything in my shop I automatically walk to the machine draw and cut whatever part I need in minutes. Sometimes it is a simple washer out of 3/16" steel......sometimes much more complex parts...and sometimes it is hundreds of parts for a customer. Trust me....with many of todays entry level CNC machines....ifyou are capable of checking your email and doing simple things on a windows based computer, you can learn CAD drawing...and operate a CNC plasma.Jim Originally Posted by acourtjesterOk Jimwhat is th ecost of these software packages???contrary to popular belief...layout time is generally more time consuming than CAD drawing a part....so drawing and cutting one part with a cnc is cost effective with todays easy to use machines. If you want...you can trace a part you want to copy....scan it....save it into your computer as a bitmap....and convert it to a cut program in minutes....very easy.The convert to cut name pleaseTom
Reply:JimColt - The bracket seen at #12 is a beautiful piece of work. But do you see how it would change everything if the bracket had to be 2" thick, or cut into a piece larger than 2' x 2', or cut in the field? Those are some of the reasons why the pantograph isn't ready to be buried just yet.Acourtjester - Your #13 build is ingenious.  Maybe one of these days we'll have a look at the tracer head?Bob -  I like the  #17 Camograph's precision gear-rack adjustment for the pattern arm. With Ultragraph, the arm uses a less precise and sort of a pain-in-the-neck friction slide for adjustment. Most Airco stuff really was way out front on a lot of refined detail.-------Yes, for most production shop work "tracers" are over the hill technology, however, tracer still has a place and can turn out work on par with CNC for both quality and speed.Again, for thinner production work with new steel, no doubt CNC is it.  For typical maintenance applications, usually one-off pieces and often 1" plus thickness, and cut from drops, used material, or for modifications to already-built pieces, I don't see where CNC would have an edge. I understand that for production shop work there is software available  to help with layout and nesting to  maximize plate yield. However, I don't believe that such "press a button" is ready yet for the  variables encountered with one-off shapes cut from drops or used  heavy material. Such cuts usually have to be closely monitored by the operator, with minor adjustments and concessions made along the way. With pantograph, parts layout and nesting, as well as minor in-progress adjustments are  a very simple and intuitive what-you-see-is-what-you'll-get, or even "are getting" when changes need to be made on-the-fly.So let's away the shovels, tracer isn't going anywhere just yet.  Good Luck.Last edited by denrep; 10-10-2011 at 08:53 AM.
Reply:The pantograph is here forever....certainly for low volumes, low budgets!If I needed to cut the part out of 2 inch steel....regardless of whether I had a pantograph or a cnc machine...I would probably use an oxy-fuel torch....unless I had a 400 Amp Hypertherm HPR system hanging around!I've got 5 horses in the barn, and 5 cars in the driveway. Both will get me where I want to go....but I generally use the one that works best for the application.Jim
Reply:Oops delete meLast edited by denrep; 10-10-2011 at 09:31 AM.
Reply:The guy that engraves my frame parts uses a pantograph engraver. All of these are different sizes. All it takes is a change in the scaling and he's ready to go on the new size.
Reply:I hate to drag up an old thread but I  hapen to have an old  Linde  pattern burner.  I gave 400 for it  in 03 and  it paid for its selfon 2 jobs.      Its rated to  cut 10 inch plate but the biggest I cut was 6 inch.     Mine like many was used in a sawmill for burning out deck chain sprockets.  THeres alot of things you have to get used to on them like pattern sizing and if you want a crisp small radius edge  you have to use an inside pattern.I use mine alot with a straight edge to cut old forklift forks in half to  make brush forks and bale forks.        Iworked for a trenching company one time and used make all the trencher sprockets. Id burn out about 10 per month.  I could make them for 40 dollars each and sell them for 150 each.    That was a big savings over the MFG cost of  500.  My main income with it is cuttin out thumbs and grapples.     I make a few most of the time i just cut out profiles and do the bores and  sell them for the customer to assemble.  I have a job comming in the next few days to make a log grapple for a miniexs in the comming days as well as a set of ripper shanks for a small dozer.