7014 rod: 3/32 vs 1/8

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Welding 1/8 7014, on mild steel with a Miller Dialarc, is fine.  I recently bought for the first time a box of 3/32 7014 (a brand called Weldmark), thinking to do some work on 1/8"  metal.  Not fine.  Seems to be too intense a hot spot at the tip of the rod.  I could not get the bead to spread, the strings were lumpy, and there was a strong tendency to burn through the metal.  Tried laying the rod over more and less, decreasing amps, and one or two other things, without any luck.  Maybe, as with 7018, the brand of rod is the problem, but I am much more inclined to think that I am doing something wrong.  Is 3/32 trickier to run than 1/8?
Reply:No. 3/32 should run the same as 1/8 rod. How come your not using 7018?JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproeNo. 3/32 should run the same as 1/8 rod. How come your not using 7018?
Reply:isnt a tin of 7014 rods cheaper by 10-15 bucks opposed to a tin of 7018 rods?Last edited by Ghost; 01-21-2014 at 03:48 PM.
Reply:See if you can get ahold of some Inweld 7014. I think you'll like it a lot.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Marty,No expert here, but 7014 is my all around favorite.  I too had the same problem that you described, until I read in a few "books" (read: no "formal" training) and also saw a video about 7014.s.  For me wlding in the flat position, I  found that the more I angled the electrode in the direction of travel, the higher the bead was looking more like rope!  I was falsely believing that the increased angle would "flatten" out the weld bead with the 7014's. Well, with my little-to-no stick welding experience, I finally discovered that my own technique with 7014 was all wrong.  After reading much and practicing with a boat load of 7014's over time, I found that the bead produced a much flatter as well as nicer looking profile with the rod angle almost near vertical.  "Almost," but not quite.  I angled the rod in the direction of travel to only about 5*.  It seems to work much better for me that way.   Even with the different yet somewhat similar (easy) 6013's, I have a greater rod angle than a mere 5* or so.    I also slowed my travel speed down a bit, even though the higher iron powder of the 7014 is designed to lay down a lot of metal quicker.  Make sure the surface is clean and devoid of all rust and mill scale, even though slight mill scale can be acceptable with 7014's as I've discovered.  Try that and also try a different brand.  For example I learned from better qualified guys here than myself, is that even one "model" of Lincoln electrodes, may be better than their next model.  For instance, I don't ever use Lincoln's 7018AC anymore, since switching to their "Excalibur" 7018's.  I'd run the 7018AC on both AC or DC, with the same results for vertical up.  It was always crap looking booger welds.  When I switched to their Excalibur 7018 variant or the Forney brand, my vertical 7018's looked so much better!You might have to play with the heat and angle more for the 3/32" rods, until you find your sweet spot.  Just keep burn'n and practicing until you get it. You'll like the 7014's for the "thinner" projects where 7018's are not really necessary.  Just my own observations. Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:I never heard of 7014 until joining these welding forums. In my line of work it was all 7018, or self shielded flux core. My local welding supply carries Pinnacle brand, so I picked up some to try. OMG! Who invented this stuff? It is childs play to run!First two pictures are flat, third picture is vertical up hill. It even bends well too! Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI never heard of 7014 until joining these welding forums. In my line of work it was all 7018, or self shielded flux core. My local welding supply carries Pinnacle brand, so I picked up some to try. OMG! Who invented this stuff? It is childs play to run!First two pictures are flat, third picture is vertical up hill. It even bends well too!
Reply:No I never thought of running it down hill. I have run 7018 down hill before just to see if I can do it. I can imagine how you would have to out smart the slag going down hill with 7014 though! Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI never heard of 7014 until joining these welding forums. In my line of work it was all 7018, or self shielded flux core. My local welding supply carries Pinnacle brand, so I picked up some to try. OMG! Who invented this stuff? It is childs play to run!First two pictures are flat, third picture is vertical up hill. It even bends well too!
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveDon't forget, traditional thinking says running it vertical down will give you less penetration than vertical up (which may be what you were going for anyway.)
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcDave, that's why I will only go downhill with it for mild steel thickness on average of 3/16."    It does penetrate the 1/4" stuff and I'll use it for that on non critical joints with a slight bevel.  If you research 7014's history, you'll find that both it and 6013's were designed for "downhill" welding in the vertical, vs uphill.   It's great for angle iron and c-channel projects in the 1/8"-3/16" thickness range.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveBetter ask CEP about the history, I think maybe he was around for bare rods wrapped in wet newspaper
Reply:apologize for the hijack but i have a question regarding 7014/7018.  for general around the farm/house non-code work, would 7014 be an acceptable substitute for 7018 up to 3/8" steel?  again, apologize for the hijack, but i thought the question would pertain to the post.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPNo! Little before my time. But I worked with a lot of guys who welded with bare rods. I know several Navy ship yard welders, they swear the Navy has WPS for 7018 vertically down hill.
Reply:Originally Posted by HOBARTapologize for the hijack but i have a question regarding 7014/7018.  for general around the farm/house non-code work, would 7014 be an acceptable substitute for 7018 up to 3/8" steel?  again, apologize for the hijack, but i thought the question would pertain to the post.
Reply:Originally Posted by HOBARTapologize for the hijack but i have a question regarding 7014/7018.  for general around the farm/house non-code work, would 7014 be an acceptable substitute for 7018 up to 3/8" steel?  again, apologize for the hijack, but i thought the question would pertain to the post.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI'd take 7018 over 7014 any day of the week just because of the impact qualities of 7018.
Reply:Better not be whipping 7018 . Any rod will work ,they are all stronger than the base metal . Wish
Reply:Originally Posted by HOBARTapologize for the hijack but i have a question regarding 7014/7018.  for general around the farm/house non-code work, would 7014 be an acceptable substitute for 7018 up to 3/8" steel?  again, apologize for the hijack, but i thought the question would pertain to the post.
Reply:the 7014's seem to run hotter for me as well compared to 7018
Reply:Originally Posted by ANVIL7014's are perfect for your needs.  Both 7014 and 7018 are nearly identical in sheering characteristics and tensile strength.  For pounding, impact or hammering force the 7018 beats 7014.I've welded a few chain cleats to buckets & bulldozers; I've welded pallet forks, dairy headlocks, panels, gates and doors all with 7014, among other rods too.  7014s like to be run on the hot side of the amp setting scale.  I go about 140 for 1/8 rod and around 170 for 5/32 size.  I prefer to  run it on ac because it just flows better for me on ac.
Reply:@ MN Dave, CEP, and SA - have a plastic box of 7014s.  Ran 'em once with DCEP.  Ok results.  Not the 7018 look was after and def not CEP's results.  Now, after re-reading SA's post about maintaining a near vertical attitude during burn-in and travel, will invest more time with the 7014s on AC/DC and improve.  Yet another electrode for the tool belt.  Mahalo!"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:7014 was designed to be a less penetrating rod than 7018, but if you weld with it at the upper end of the amp scale it will penetrate quite well. One nice feature of 7014 is it works well welding thin material to thick material, it also was designed to run well on both AC and DC. I use it a lot as it's a good bit cheaper than 7018 where I live. 7014 runs the best for me on AC.
Reply:How is 7024 compaired to 7018 and 7014 with impact?old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welderTry this chart mad welderDave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I think real weld strength comes from welds wetting in it to the sides.A 6013 weld, wet in to the sides of a filet, would be stronger than a 7018 that had cold lap and did not wet in.~JohnJust a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Dave,Here's my forks.I have picked up over 9 thousand pounds with these forks.Just a little tweak.Let me know what you guys think of them.~JohnJust a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopI think real weld strength comes from welds wetting in it to the sides.A 6013 weld, wet in to the sides of a filet, would be stronger than a 7018 that had cold lap and did not wet in.~John
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopDave,Here's my forks.I have picked up over 9 thousand pounds with these forks.Just a little tweak.Let me know what you guys think of them.~John
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcCEP,  have you run 7014 downhill?  I do it with a slight weave to keep the slag pushed up.  The slag will be runny and might fool one into thinking that the bead will look like crap.  Don't be fooled, it will look awesome when chipped away.  The slag just peels itself off with vertical down.   The weld bead will be even flatter than the flat position welding.  It's is truly a beautiful looking weld in vertical down.  Really good for 3/16" down to 1/8" steel.   Hell,  I'll even throw in anything less than 1/4" with the right size rod (1/8" vs 5/32").  You might have to briefly play with the rod angle a bit for vertical down, but it's "stupid easy."  You won't believe how much better downhill looks compared to uphill and flat!
Reply:Originally Posted by mad welder 4How is 7024 compaired to 7018 and 7014 with impact?
Reply:Originally Posted by kctgb All rods 7015 and up are low hydrogen rods and all rods 7014 and lower are not low hydrogen rod
Reply:=kctgb;39984517018 will take more stress than 7014 because the 7018 rods have higher ductility properties. Ductility gives a weld more ability to flex and give before breaking. As you can see on the chart 7018 has a higher ductility number than 7014 so it would be better for high stress welds.Other tid bits:7014 isn't a low hydrogen rod and 7018 is, 7018 rods need to be stored properly and heated before use for code work. All rods 7015 and up are low hydrogen rods and all rods 7014 and lower are not low hydrogen rod7014 rods have iron in the flux much like 7018 but the 14 rods don't use cellulose in the flux like 7018 rods. The cellulose in the low hydrogen rods will suck up moisture like a sponge and they should be stored in an air tight container and dried before use. Burning a low hydrogen rod that is wet will create hydrogen in the weld puddle and cause porosity(anytime water is burned it will create hydrogen).Both 14 and 18 rods are high deposition rods as well as 7024 rods. Rods under 14 are considered not high deposition rods. 7024 is for flat only welds and 14,18 are for all position. DO NOT TRY WELDING OUT OF POSITION WITH 7024.My experience with 7014: It's a very good rod for general non code or non critical welds, I have welded everything from snow plow attachments to four wheeler trailers with it and I have never had a failure. I always clean the base metal from any rust or yuk before welding with 7014 and it has always worked well for me. It runs well and DC or AC but for me it runs the best on AC. For general purpose non critical welds I grab the 7014 rods most often, it's also good for welding thin material to thick material. 7014 rods are a good bit cheaper than 7018 rods where I live.Sorry for rambling on.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveFunctional, made from scrap, and unpainted - perfect 9,000 lbs?  My little WD Allis would roll over and play dead
Reply:Nice Chalmers Mine has been in need of a wide front since the day I bought it - many white knuckles with the loader high in the air Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by mad welder 4Thanks for that.Ok I was asking because I want to build up a flat surface on my rail road track anvil.The rail road track is real soft, Its starting to look like the surface of the moon. I was thinking I would put down a layer of 6011 or 6013,  build on top of that till its flat with 7024, then run the 7018, 5/32 washington alloy over the top. Then if that 7018 is not hard enough put down a layer of hard facing rod.7018 washington alloy, I dont really use for anything because I hate the way they run.I keep my 7018 electrodes in those sealed plastic electrode holders, then I keep those inside a 40mm ammo can. Everything else is kept in original box or bag, but it all stays in an ammo can.I think I might have to pick up a pound or 2 of 7018 just to give it a try.
Reply:Originally Posted by mad welder 4Ok I was asking because I want to build up a flat surface on my rail road track anvil.The rail road track is real soft, Its starting to look like the surface of the moon. I was thinking I would put down a layer of 6011 or 6013,  build on top of that till its flat with 7024, then run the 7018, 5/32 washington alloy over the top. Then if that 7018 is not hard enough put down a layer of hard facing rod.7018 washington alloy, I dont really use for anything because I hate the way they run.
Reply:I thought about getting a piece of hardened steel, but this is one of those things that doesn't have to be done right away and was going to save it for one of those days when I am in the mood to crank up the machine and burn a bunch of electrode hot and fast and dont really have any big projects. Plus I never have an excuse to layer any more these days.I will save the 6013 for something else.I have about 4 pounds of 5/32 inch 7018 washington alloy I want to get rid of and some new hard facing rod I have not tried yet.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Dave,Here is my big boy.160hp.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopDave,Here is my big boy.160hp.
Reply:You should see it with duels.20.8-38'sPull anything.I got another one too.110hp 4wheel drive.And a Minnie.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:I just have the one Chalmers - it's my yard tractor for heavy stuff, brush hog, blade, etc.But a wide front and more horsepower would be excellent Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:These aren't my tractors though, mainly farmers I do work for, they always park them at my place so we can work on them.I guess you could say there mine.Lots of farm repairing to do around my neck of the woods.Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:@ kctgb - the dominant chemicals constituents in 7018 flux are calcium carbonate (shielding gas), iron powder (deposition rate), flourspar (slag former), and ferrosilicon (deox'r).  The Flouride and Silicon elements are the key Hydrogen rippers during metal burn-in and weld pool interaction.  Several of these compounds act secondarily as fluxing agents.  No cellulose present in 7018s a la 6010/11s.  The distinct smell of burning paper when running 10/11s is a tell of the cellulose.  Solid state chemistry of 7018s :: http://aws.org/wj/supplement/wj0907-273.pdfLast edited by ManoKai; 04-05-2014 at 06:16 AM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKai@ kctgb - the dominant chemicals constituents in 7018 flux are calcium carbonate (shielding gas), iron powder (deposition rate), flourspar (slag former), and ferrosilicon (deox'r).  The Flouride and Silicon elements are the key Hydrogen rippers during metal burn-in and weld pool interaction.  Several of these compounds act secondarily as fluxing agents.  No cellulose present in 7018s a la 6010/11s.  The distinct smell of burning paper when running 10/11s is a tell of the cellulose.  Solid state chemistry of 7018s :: http://aws.org/wj/supplement/wj0907-273.pdf
Reply:@ kctgb - no worries bro.  I probably make three mistakes per each half-day.  Ha!  It's all good.  Ran a few 3/32" Lincoln (NASCAR box) 7014 rods today on a long section of used angle and scrap 1/4".  Fillet weld, vertical DOWN.  Solid wetting, flat:flat profile, and the slag self-peeled simultaneously from the middle with a perforated-like coating.  Dust off.  For 3G down on thinner steel (non-code work) and for teaching humans how to weld, we're adding to 7014s to the quiver.  Interestingly, the arc "ferocity" and spatter fallout mimics a 6010 yet the dig in is milder than both an XX10 and XX18.  "14s" are sweet .Last edited by ManoKai; 04-05-2014 at 12:12 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKai@ kctgb - no worries bro.  I probably make three mistakes per each half-day.  Ha!  It's all good.  Ran a few 3/32" Lincoln (NASCAR box) 7014 rods today on a long section of used angle and scrap 1/4".  Fillet weld, vertical DOWN.  Solid wetting, flat:flat profile, and the slag self-peeled simultaneously from the middle with a perforated-like coating.  Dust off.  For 3G down on thinner steel (non-code work) and for teaching humans how to weld, we're adding to 7014s to the quiver.  Interestingly, the arc "ferocity" and spatter fallout mimics a 6010 yet the dig in is milder than both an XX10 and XX18.  "14s" are sweet .
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKai@ kctgb - no worries bro.  I probably make three mistakes per each half-day.  Ha!  It's all good.  Ran a few 3/32" Lincoln (NASCAR box) 7014 rods today on a long section of used angle and scrap 1/4".  Fillet weld, vertical DOWN.  Solid wetting, flat:flat profile, and the slag self-peeled simultaneously from the middle with a perforated-like coating.  Dust off.  For 3G down on thinner steel (non-code work) and for teaching humans how to weld, we're adding to 7014s to the quiver.  Interestingly, the arc "ferocity" and spatter fallout mimics a 6010 yet the dig in is milder than both an XX10 and XX18.  "14s" are sweet .
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcALRIGHT MANO!!!!!   Where's MinnesotaDave, because we have another 7014 convert!?!?!!!!! Try it on AC too, because it just runs better!   Don't know why, but it does for me as well as others here that have made the same claim!   Running vertical down is just soooo dang purrrrty!For some real 7014 fun, get a box of 7014 5/32" and run that flat, then vertical.  It's like applying frosting on a cake!!!!   If you need some 5/32 7014, let me know and I'll be happy to mail you some.   On a side note, I have some Washington Alloy 7024 that comes in...... Drum roll please..... 5lb BOXES!!!!   That is awesome fun.  It burns and wets out identical to the Lincoln 7024-1 "Jetweld", which ONLY comes in 50lb boxes.