schooling advice

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so im still only one semester through school, and am also taking several other classes to fill out my credits. today in my machine tool class i was chattin with an instructor and he was emphasizing about how the more i know the more i can      make. i might have failed to let him know that i was in the welding program taking a machine tool class for fun, but he said a dude who has multiple backgrounds has a far better chance out there in the world. Any advice on what other class i can take to become a real well rounded welder((other than the tig, mig, stick, fab, bp reading,metalurgy,  etc....)classes outside a general welding class outline)
Reply:I got sick and tired of welding. I love to build things out of steel. But those mindless high production welding jobs just drove me crazy. Like welding pre-cast concrete deck panels on a container ship dock. Making the same 8-welds, welding rebar to a piece of angle iron for months, and months at a time. I just couldn’t do it anymore, so I went into rigging full time. Only took a welding job if I had to.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:My son started with all the welding classes, then took a lot of the machining classes, CAD/CAM, tolerancing, blueprint reading, QC/QA and stuff.  He did a few months doing TIG weld repairs on turbine blades (boring).  Now he's a machinist."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:I would make sure you get a CAD class in there somewhere, Solidworks is my preference. Machining and welding both have their perks but there is a limit to how much I can take in one stretch. It breaks things up a bit when I can weld the parts and then walk into the machine shop and machine my own parts. It's good to know how to do a lot of things and do them well. It's also easier to find a job if the boss can put you where he wants for a couple of days or weeks at a time. Also, learn how to work/bend sheet metal, if you get in a shop where nobody knows how to do it you'll look like a genius.
Reply:that whole "learn how to bend sheet metal thing" seems like priceless information. anything i can do to stand out is best. very grateful, thanks yall. but yeah were required to take CAD, i often wonder how it would really work being a welder and mentioning that you know how to run drafting programs(we do AutoCad). would they expect it of you?
Reply:tbirkey,     If you apply for a job as a welder they probably won't require or ask you to do any CAD. My advice, don't limit yourself to being a welder. I enjoy welding but I enjoy building things more and welding is just part of the process. There will always be opportunities for advancement but you have to be ready to do the job when the opportunity arises. This includes getting the necessary training before something opens up because they aren't going to wait for you to get up to speed if there are 10 other guys that already have the training. On a weekly basis I might be required to make quality welds on about any material with about any process in any position. I might also be required to run a surface grinder, manual and cnc lathes and mills, bend sheet metal or plate, and numerous machines that I haven't mentioned. In my shop, where I slave away at night and on the weekends, I literally never know what's going to walk in the door. One day I'm signing a confidentiality contract for a part and the next day I'm making a handle for a pushmower. In the metalworking trades in pays to know how to do a lot of different things and do them well. If you don't have access to different things in your place of employment buy a bunch of books and start reading.
Reply:machinist/welder is a good combo.    i found one problem though.  machining kinda turns you into a perfectionist.     which then makes you to picky about your fitting/measuring when it comes to welding.    it doesn't sound like a problem, but in a practical/time/economical sense it does.     sometimes i drive myself crazy because of it, especially when i'm welding/building stuff for myself, cuz if i don't get it just right, it will bother me every time i look at it.     one of my teachers was a union pipe fitter, and later became a pipe welder.     he mainly did pipe fitting, and said he was never temporary laid off/out of work/unemployment, because he could do both trades
Reply:It also depends on where you end up welding. We build Nuclear subs for the Navy. Welders weld. We weld all types of metals, all different thicknesses, in every conceivable position. Nuclear and non-nuclear welding. Structural and pipe. Manual, semi-automatic, and mechanized. Welding in a mirror.The list goes on and on....To do this successfully, you have to become a GREAT welder. This takes years of "practice"....actually JUST welding. Then getting sent back to school for more advanced welding qualifications. Then going out and perfecting that newly acquired qualification / process.The point is....a welder here can work here for 50 years and not get bored JUST welding. So, like I said...it depends on WHERE you end up welding.Rich
Reply:All great info posted for you. As I stated here before, whatever you do today , YOU must sell yourself. No matter what it is . You gotta love what you do and hopefully the $$ will be there too. Most jobs have good and bad but you gotta love either way. I remember welding outside on a bright sunny day with my market umbrella stuck in a pipe stand for shade. It was great ! Next day doing a bellhole getting a wet a$$ , it was fun and the guys made me laugh. Your fellow workers could make or break the day too. Life is too short so do what you love to do and look forward [ well kind of ] to  going to work. Good luck !
Reply:I think it depends on where you want to work. I don't see any machinist in the country making the money that contract welders or rig welders make. The rig welders I knew were pulling in over $100 an hour. Contract welders running outages average $2500-$5000 a week. If you're just wanting to work in a shop, then I can see a machinist or drafter making the same as or more than a shop welder. From my experience, welding is the hard part that you actually need to practice. Machining is something you can pick up quickly with on the job experience. Someone can show you what to do for a certain part and in two minutes you can duplicate it. As far as being able to do CAD and weld, I don't see the two jobs mixing unless it's at a really tiny company. A large company would want a dedicated drafter who is an expert, not someone that is just familiar with it and going between the office and the shop doing other jobs. I've had quite a few jobs where I went in as a shop welder and ended up running a lathe all day sometimes, or bending tubes for two weeks straight, and they just show me what needs to get done and I do it. No formal training needed. I was once told that digging one deep well is better than digging a bunch of shallow wells.
Reply:Ignore this post.... Can't find delete buttonLast edited by TheBFA; 10-29-2015 at 12:00 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by 123weldmachinist/welder is a good combo.    i found one problem though.  machining kinda turns you into a perfectionist.     which then makes you to picky about your fitting/measuring when it comes to welding.    it doesn't sound like a problem, but in a practical/time/economical sense it does.     sometimes i drive myself crazy because of it, especially when i'm welding/building stuff for myself, cuz if i don't get it just right, it will bother me every time i look at it.     one of my teachers was a union pipe fitter, and later became a pipe welder.     he mainly did pipe fitting, and said he was never temporary laid off/out of work/unemployment, because he could do both trades
Reply:Originally Posted by TheBFA... Machining is something you can pick up quickly with on the job experience. Someone can show you what to do for a certain part and in two minutes you can duplicate it...
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumThere's a little more to it than that.
Reply:In contrast to the above post....I am a class A machinist...NO SCHOOLING WHATSOEVER.Regardless of what has been said just watching someone do something don't mean that you "Get It" at all....Machine work is super precise and the diameter of a piece of hair can be the difference in yes its good or nope it got rejected...And after spending X amount of hours on something that gets spit back at you can be a real bummer but that's how it goes sometime..I am also a kick *** TIG welder..No schooling for that either.Everything I learned was on the job.Nobody taught me how to play the drums or play hockey either but the results speak for themselves.When I first got a machine shop job I thought a micrometer was a hi performance C  clamp!You can do anything  if you put your mind to it and don't let anyone say no you can't.I have been at this for almost 39 years now... And it takes YEARS of practice to "Get It Right" but don't let that stop you..Anyone can do anything if you want it bad enough....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Poor office skills kill more small businesses than anything. If you are headed for self employment then try to take an accounting class, or at least a Quickbooks class. Also basic algebra and geometry. When training somebody, I often have to teach basic geometry because they don't know how to square a square, find the center of a circle, find a radius from a chord length and height, solve a triangle, or calculate area of a circle or square.Last edited by walker; 10-29-2015 at 07:49 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by TheBFANot really. To consider yourself a machinist, yeah, but anything that you need machined that you would ask your welder or fabricator to do is most likely going to be simple turning or some simple milling and a basic understanding of how the machines work and using measuring devices is all that it takes. Stuff like facing or beveling a tube or pipe end, or putting a few holes or slots into something, or using a pipe threader are all pretty much "show me once and I got it" type activities. Anything more complicated than that, you're going to have an actual machinist doing it most likely, not just someone who took a class on it once back in college.
Reply:.....cause I got five on it!
Reply:Put me in for 10...I don't think reality has set in yet......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Lol, my brain is confused.
Reply:Originally Posted by mikecwikAre you on dope?
Reply:Continued.....Even turned my own hubs (I used 8mm studs because my hub was already tapped for it, but I later changed it to 10mm.Welded like a machine did itAll the black stuff is just polishing compound I didn't feel like tying to get all off at the time.
Reply:Here's a sort of hermaphroditic union of my handle that I wanted removable for storing. The center 10mm stud screws into the elbow piece but the support comes from the slip fit of the tube. Again, had to turn the existing pretapped standoffs I had to make then fit inside the tubes. I put a plastic gasket inside so that it wouldn't lock itself together.I drilled a hole and inserted a grub screw to lock it in and welded the grub screw in. I still put a small recessed socket weld on the slug to tube but didn't want to make it too beefy and cause interference with the handle fitting. I'd like to point out that I coped all the tubes by hand with a 5in grinder by putting in the dimensions to something I found on the internet that will figure out the sine wave shape for the cut and you can print it out and use it as a template. Works perfectly every time. Oh, and the elbow was a miter joint that I polished the weld out of. I did all this with what I can equate to maybe 10 hours, including the class from 15 years ago with of actual instruction. It doesn't take much at all to learn how to operate a few functions of any machining tools to be able to crank out some work.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterIn contrast to the above post....I am a class A machinist...NO SCHOOLING WHATSOEVER.Regardless of what has been said just watching someone do something don't mean that you "Get It" at all....Machine work is super precise and the diameter of a piece of hair can be the difference in yes its good or nope it got rejected...And after spending X amount of hours on something that gets spit back at you can be a real bummer but that's how it goes sometime..I am also a kick *** TIG welder..No schooling for that either.Everything I learned was on the job.Nobody taught me how to play the drums or play hockey either but the results speak for themselves.When I first got a machine shop job I thought a micrometer was a hi performance C  clamp!You can do anything  if you put your mind to it and don't let anyone say no you can't.I have been at this for almost 39 years now... And it takes YEARS of practice to "Get It Right" but don't let that stop you..Anyone can do anything if you want it bad enough....zap!
Reply:Got an email just yesterday from my kid."In other news. I actually hit a bore tolerance of 1.1248-1.1250 today. Everyone recognizes it wasn't necessary and the engineer responsible is an idiot. Also glue backed sandpaper on a socket. "His Haas VF-7 with several spindle rebuilds wasn't going to get him there.  Had to resort to lapping. This is same kid that welded Inconel turbine blades at an Alstom reconditioning facility in Richmond awhile back. They did have some machinists for reconditioning the huge turbine shafts. (200 ton shaft assemblies ?)"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welderOriginally Posted by burnstbirkey,     If you apply for a job as a welder they probably won't require or ask you to do any CAD. My advice, don't limit yourself to being a welder. I enjoy welding but I enjoy building things more and welding is just part of the process. There will always be opportunities for advancement but you have to be ready to do the job when the opportunity arises. This includes getting the necessary training before something opens up because they aren't going to wait for you to get up to speed if there are 10 other guys that already have the training. On a weekly basis I might be required to make quality welds on about any material with about any process in any position. I might also be required to run a surface grinder, manual and cnc lathes and mills, bend sheet metal or plate, and numerous machines that I haven't mentioned. In my shop, where I slave away at night and on the weekends, I literally never know what's going to walk in the door. One day I'm signing a confidentiality contract for a part and the next day I'm making a handle for a pushmower. In the metalworking trades in pays to know how to do a lot of different things and do them well. If you don't have access to different things in your place of employment buy a bunch of books and start reading.
Reply:Originally Posted by TheBFAI probably was while fabricating my own single sided wheel stand for my Ducati using the lathe to turn multiple pieces to fit perfectly in the rear axle, which included machining my own races in a dual bearing hub I made from tube stock, pressed my own bearings in and machined my own custom made clamp for the removable pin.... All with minimal OJT and one class about 15 years ago. Race bored out for bearingAttachment 1256461Turning out the head of the pinAttachment 1256471Attachment 1256481Turned this scrap piece into my clamp, complete with one tapped side for the screwAttachment 1256491Attachment 1256501
Reply:very grateful for the multiple opinions!
Reply:I hope nobody needs to be told that the more you know the better off you are. You see it all the time guys getting laid off because they don't know other jobs in the shop and then being pissed at the guy that does know that job having it. How are your mechanical skills, that could be something to know about if you don't already. Electrical. Personally you could not pay me to be a welder. I think I would rather sort mail or go into car sales. Or as someone else said rigging would always have you looking at something new.
Reply:Originally Posted by mikecwikI had no idea I was dealing with a fabricator. Considering not all machining needs to be perfect (whatever that means, must be a welder term) it is nice you took the time to make your stuff perfect. Nice custom work and your welding is far better than any robotics I ever laid eyes on. Would you care to send you stand out for testing? NDT of course.My how I hate myself some days but it is hard to let go.
Reply:Originally Posted by mikecwikI hope nobody needs to be told that the more you know the better off you are. You see it all the time guys getting laid off because they don't know other jobs in the shop and then being pissed at the guy that does know that job having it. How are your mechanical skills, that could be something to know about if you don't already. Electrical....