Quick Trailer Jack Modification.

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So I needed to make a quick modification on my 16 foot car trailer. We've always had problem with the jack situation with it, tried the side mount swing down types and they never worked out. We ended up going back to the straight shaft type that goes behind the tongue in between the frame. The only problem we had with this is that when the jack is fully up, it still sticks out beneath the level of the channel crossmembers by about 4". This was no good since everytime we would go up a driveway or deep dip, the jack would scrape horribly and bend towards the back.The solution: I found an old piece of dont know what size rectangular tube laying around the shop from some sort of implement. cut that to the height where the bottom of the jack would be level with the bottom of the channel, and then used a 2 1/2' Holesaw to cut a hole in the middle for the jack to slide through. Then i welded it onto the trailer and after that i marked where my holes neede to be, pulled the jack out and drilled away. Then just simply bolted the jack in and we are back in business!The jack still has enough travel to lift the jack high enough to mount on any of our trucks, loaded or unloaded. If this becomes a problem we can always place a 4x4 beneath to give more lift. Hope you guys enjoy this quick welding fix! If you look closely, you can see I also welded the tongue part back onto the crossmember as this 1" part was never welded on in the first place and was bent above the surface after the jack bent the tongue slightly. Sorry for not having the greatest pics but its something! Thanks for looking guys!
Reply:Looks great!!!
Reply:Repair looks good. That is always the way with jacks isn't it, if it folds out of the way they are weak and unstable, like yours they drag. Good solution. Just a note, if you are in an area where the DOT looks at those trailers you will want to replace the safety chains, drug chains are an "out of service ticket" which means they have to be replaced before they will let you go once you are stopped. Some states they don't hassle too much, but others are getting tough on trailers lately.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjRepair looks good. That is always the way with jacks isn't it, if it folds out of the way they are weak and unstable, like yours they drag. Good solution. Just a note, if you are in an area where the DOT looks at those trailers you will want to replace the safety chains, drug chains are an "out of service ticket" which means they have to be replaced before they will let you go once you are stopped. Some states they don't hassle too much, but others are getting tough on trailers lately.
Reply:Does the chain need to be bolted/welded directly to the tongue?
Reply:Nice job, good improvment vettelvr.welderj can you be more specific about what's wrong with these chains  frankly to me they seems way better than many i have seenLast edited by snowbird; 08-13-2014 at 09:52 PM.Reason: typo
Reply:Originally Posted by TIGguyDoes the chain need to be bolted/welded directly to the tongue?
Reply:Originally Posted by snowbirdbice job, good improvment vettelvr.welderj can you be more specific about what's wrong with these chains  frankly to me they seems way better than many i have seen
Reply:Safety chains may be bolted to the tongue(the bolt/bolt head must be of sufficient diameter to hold the chain without the use of a washer), or pass through a piece of cold roll that is welded to the tongue that is full diameter to fill the chain link.  Under no circumstances can you weld the chain itself to the tongue.Working strength of the chains must equal the GVWR of the trailer, either single or in combination.  (On my trailer I used Grade 43 chains with a single strand working load of 5400lbs,,, 10,800 combined working load 2 strands)  Hooks must match working load.There were no aspects of my trailer that weren't in compliance, and in some instances the design/equipment exceeded requirements.I'm interested in a quote from the exact Rule that allows enforcement jerkoffs to red flag a trailer for chains that show signs of possible road contact.  I can't seem to find such wording in the Rules.  Only references I find are concerning chain length."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:In addition, for what it's worth..........................Your trailer doesn't rise to the standards, for enforcement purposes, of a CMV.  Anything under 10,000 GVWR is not considered a CMV, and subsequently escapes a lot of the regulations applicable to CMV's.At 3500 GVWR you're subject to some general rules though.  Brakes required, lighting requirements, etc.  But some rules don't apply to you."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:It's not my job to do your research for you, but you might want to check out some of the SAE standards incorporated in the Fed Rules, these will fill in the blanks that the Rules don't cover specifically, but which you are subject to"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Aw crap, I'm thinking of another thread when I'm thinking about 3500 GVWR trailers.............I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR GVWR IS.  So ignore parts of post #10 , however if you're under 10,000 GVWR some of the post applies.  Life is easier when you're not pulling a trailer 10,000 GVWR, or a combination exceeding 26,000 CGVWRLast edited by farmersamm; 08-14-2014 at 09:03 AM."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:All of that is out the window if you're using the trailer for business reasons though and you default to the higher standardsVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by DualieAll of that is out the window if you're using the trailer for business reasons though and you default to the higher standards
Reply:Unless of course the hot tub falls offa the back of the trailer, bounces three times, and lands on top of the local sheriff's car  Do we have a cargo securement violation in this instance?I can just see the deputy fumbling for his bullet (they're only allowed one ya know, and it has to be kept in the glove compartment) while juggling his donut and coffee"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Same scenario...........but with a twist.  Grammy, and Gramps are in the hot tub business.  Gramps makes them out in the barn when not punchin' doggies.  Uses hand tools he's made on his own forge, uses wood from his own property, all other components from own property.  And sells them only to local folks.  Local folks have to supply the plumbing stuff.  He's strictly intrastate in terms of commerce.  Fed is out I'd imagine,  and unless the Fed rules are incorporated in State statutes..........................................  .....And bein' a geezer, he only drives on back county roads, never on blacktop...........................It's early, my only relax time today, and I'm using it to full advantage"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:My work here is done"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Wow, I must have missed something as the reasons for the numerous postings. The thread starter simply showed a quick, easy, and very functional modification to improve on a problem experienced. Pretty simple from an outsider's view.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:That's looks good.PlasmaCam CNC cutterLathe and Band SawClamps
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammSafety chains may be bolted to the tongue(the bolt/bolt head must be of sufficient diameter to hold the chain without the use of a washer), or pass through a piece of cold roll that is welded to the tongue that is full diameter to fill the chain link.  Under no circumstances can you weld the chain itself to the tongue.Working strength of the chains must equal the GVWR of the trailer, either single or in combination.  (On my trailer I used Grade 43 chains with a single strand working load of 5400lbs,,, 10,800 combined working load 2 strands)  Hooks must match working load.There were no aspects of my trailer that weren't in compliance, and in some instances the design/equipment exceeded requirements.I'm interested in a quote from the exact Rule that allows enforcement jerkoffs to red flag a trailer for chains that show signs of possible road contact.  I can't seem to find such wording in the Rules.  Only references I find are concerning chain length.
Reply:[QUOTE=farmersamm;4543511]Safety chains may be bolted to the tongue(the bolt/bolt head must be of sufficient diameter to hold the chain without the use of a washer), or pass through a piece of cold roll that is welded to the tongue that is full diameter to fill the chain link.  Under no circumstances can you weld the chain itself to the tongue.There is no regulation that dictates what the head size for a bolt needs to be or requires cold rolled steel. And some states do allow welding the chain to the trailer frame, others say no. What the regs state as far as strength goes is that each component must meet the requirements, so if you need 5,000 pounds of chain strength and use 6,000 pound rated chain, but use a bolt to fasten them to the trailer that only has 2,000 pounds of strength, then you only have 2,000 pounds worth of safety chains. Here is a link to a list that covers most of what you need to know on the subject.http://www.expediter.com/natm%20pdf%...Laws-Table.pdfYeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Keep in mind that a lot of this has to do with each state or entities enforcement philosophy, ie., getting into the implied certification of what "is" or is "not" adequate for the task. That would go right down to the individual officer doing the enforcement. Once they get to the point of telling you that this bolt, nut, weld, chain is "not" adequate, then they obviously must be able to supply the answer of what "is" adequate and accept the liability should that answer prove wrong. It is much easier and/or safer on their part to pen a rule that states the device must be "tuff enuff" for the task. That leaves the onus on the manufacturer/owner/operator. If it fails it obviously wasn't tuff enuff."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Over the years I've seen the results of the DOT cops hanging out on the county back roads busting the locals on their way to the dump with their crappy dump runners or on their way home with 3,00 pounds of sand in a 1,200 pound trailer. Bent tongues, floppy fenders, one tail light or no lights, 1/4 inch bolt on the 5/16ths chain, sagging springs and a wiring harness that was drug off ten years ago, cracked bald tires.. About 50% of those getting a ticket are going to call the county supervisor when they get home and raise he11. The county supervisors are going to call the local Highway Patrol office and tell them to back off and you won't see them again for another five years. The message is "stick to the major highways" and stick to the "big ticket items" and the locals know that."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:The chain thing still puzzles me.  "From the CVSA out of service handbook" regarding chains................................Could you take a pic of the page that says the thing about abrasion, kinks, wear, etc.  I think, pardon me if I'm wrong, that the section you're quoting sounds strangely like rules applied to BINDER chain"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I don't believe you can 'after-manufacture' weld ANY chain, maybe I'm wrong, and not degrade the strength of the chain  Degrade the chain, and you have created the "weak link" in the system I'd hazard a guess................."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/Originally Posted by farmersammThe chain thing still puzzles me.  "From the CVSA out of service handbook" regarding chains................................Could you take a pic of the page that says the thing about abrasion, kinks, wear, etc.  I think, pardon me if I'm wrong, that the section you're quoting sounds strangely like rules applied to BINDER chain
Reply:I guess it's a "universal" thing with the chains.  DunnoFrames are of particular interest to me right now.  Getting ready to do major surgery on a truck frame in about 3 weeks.  Ooooomph"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammI don't believe you can 'after-manufacture' weld ANY chain, maybe I'm wrong, and not degrade the strength of the chain  Degrade the chain, and you have created the "weak link" in the system I'd hazard a guess.................
Reply:Most manufacturer built trailers have the chains welded on. I don't think a lot of the technicalities matter since it is usually subjective to the cops take on it anyway.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammGee Samm, you're right  It does appear that such wording is associated with cargo securement http://www.ccjdigital.com/out-of-service-criteria/I suppose the donut boys could extrapolate the binder chain into the safety chain thing sorta
Reply:Your right M J D, I only mentioned it in the first place because  the OP is from MN. like me and I know that both Mn. and Ia. are cracking down on this type stuff lately. The sad thing is that the national rules don't apply unless they are under CDL rules so even that little uniformity is lost. Even with the new push on this there is still very little actual enforcement unless you are in an accident, then watch out.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:I have seen semi tractor-trailers written up that basically left the showroom floor. The problem is its all interpretation of the law. Air hoses for example, if you pull on one its real easy to say its making contact with something it shouldn't. It seems like the DOT gets on a certain issue for a while, milks it dry then moves on to the next.
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DI have seen semi tractor-trailers written up that basically left the showroom floor. The problem is its all interpretation of the law. Air hoses for example, if you pull on one its real easy to say its making contact with something it shouldn't. It seems like the DOT gets on a certain issue for a while, milks it dry then moves on to the next.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjYour link is incomplete, the rules for tie down chains are slightly different.
Reply:Most fatality accidents are caused by drivers.  Idiots are behind the wheel these days, we ran with junk back in the day, and had good safety records."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammMost fatality accidents are caused by drivers.  Idiots are behind the wheel these days, we ran with junk back in the day, and had good safety records.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammMost fatality accidents are caused by drivers.  Idiots are behind the wheel these days, we ran with junk back in the day, and had good safety records.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjAgain a complete false statement from you. I'm not really surprised, but this one is not only wrong, but is actually the opposite of the truth. The accident rate has been steadily falling for big trucks since 1975.This link sums it up as well.http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/809-690.PDFThis paragraph pretty much sums it up. "The trend in the number of fatalities in crashes involving large trucks does not appear to be similar to thetrend in travel for large trucks. Large truck travel has more than doubled during the 1975 - 1995 periodwhile the number of truck-related fatalities has not changed appreciably during the same period."Apparently you old timers weren't all that good at your jobs."
Reply:Well said and all too true. This is about what I wrote earlier but deleted it because I though it was getting too far OT. I'm glad you said it tho because it's what my experience has been as well. Your likelihood of gettin written up is directly related to your attitude towards the officer. I have been inspected all over the country and have rarely been written a violation, but then I too keep my equipment up properly and treat the officers well. I can't tell you when my last violation was, or how many times an officer has looked at something then said "I'm going to look at something else and come back to that", giving me time to replace a bulb or something.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:That "looking the other way" by DOT enforcement happens more than a lot of folks like to admit. A guy/gal trying to run older equipment with their pride reflected in their equipment and operation is usually recognized quickly. It's most unfortunate that people tend to think and remember only negative(s) for the most part. I can't count the number of times one of my trucks has been waved around as we ran mostly the same routes constantly so the trucks were known. Had a scalemaster tell me over the intercom there was a cab clearance lamp "flickering" when I rolled onto the scale but steady when stopped. I pulled over to the side just after clearing the scale on their ramp and repaired the problem with a new bulb. It was burning steady when I stopped to ascertain which bulb position was problematic. Had they not said something, I'd have not know vibration was the culprit as it was standard practice to check bulb operation prior to starting the run. Been told many times the brakes, or drums were "getting close or thin" so that was always taken as brake job time. I'd always rather put the money into repairs as opposed to municipal coffers by running the gauntlet.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:I still maintain that it's the idiots that kill.I went to Owasso on Saturday to pick up a load of hay.  You have to go thru Tulsa to get there.I generally slow it down in traffic, and allow at least 60-100 feet between me, and the vehicle ahead of me.  Sometimes it's impossible in really heavy traffic, but I just keep backing off when cars jump in front of me.  Might get there a little later, but I'll get there.Anyhow...........I continually see these cowboys running up peoples asses with big trucks like mine, they think they'll force the cars to get out of their way, or they're just plain ignorant.  I probably saw at least half a dozen cases of this during the trip.  The radiator grill with the big chrome teeth thingy tells the world "Moron in the house" from as far as the eye can see.A large truck has a double whammy when it comes to stopping.  The brakes don't grab when the truck is empty (big tendancy to skid), and the brakes are generally insufficient to REALLY slow down if the truck is fully loaded.  Either way, it requires driving at least as far ahead as you can see to allow sufficient reaction time.  Following 10 feet behind someone at 65mph ain't the way to do it  These guys eventually (sometimes never, if they're lucky) kill or injure someone.  That has absolutely nothing to do with the condition of the vehicle.My old International is on the edge of compliance, and same with the float, but I drive accordingly.  It just takes a bit of brains, and some experience.Most of my "professional" driving career was either in the city, or the mountains.  Neither are as forgiving as the open highway kind of driving.  In the old days the city drivers were the ones who had seniority, and knew how to handle the equipment.  Novices were kept on the road.The mountain guys,,,, were well,,,,,,mountain guys  If they knew you had a lot of mountain experience, they KEPT you running the mountains unless you got fed up and quitAnd there were idiots back then too.  Easy to spot them in the hills, they were the ones with a nice cloud of smoke coming outta the brakes halfway down the hill  The idiots in town came back with torn off trailer doors, or were fired for rear-ending some poor sap.  Always been morons."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Only time I got REAL Dot'd  was back when they built Denver International Airport.  I was working for an outfit that had the contract to haul the aggregate to the concret batch plant on the site.The set up portables just outside the gravel pit, and just pulled over whomever they felt like pulling over.  It was always "cha ching" .  We were always pushing 90KUsually just a overweight fine, turn around and dump it at the pit, reload, and go on your way.This time I got the white overall treatment  Little fatass copper with his O-FISH-AL inspectors creeper  And they actually did wear white overallsCrawls around under the truck, after telling me to kill the engine once the air was built up, and shut it down, and apply the brakes when he blew his O-FISH-AL little fatass whistle  "AND DON'T START THE ENGINE"I didn't start the engine, but I was still in my early twenties (real early), and had some fun.  I hit the button, and applied the safety brakes.Little jerkoff came scrambling out from under that trailer  like a striped *** ape  " I thought you meant the safety's"  No ****, I was a real idiot back in the day when it came to copsThat dude wrote up that truck for everything except for a defective cupholder  I got shut down right on Tower Road, or Buckley (been a long time), and they had to tow the thing back to the shop  Try that little trick today, and the moron would probably draw down on you.  The real danger back then was that the guy might just drag you out of the cab, and do a tap dance on your head.  You'd of had it coming, and nothing said.  People were more real when I was growing up.  Was an old narrow nose Pete, those were good looking trucks!!Didn't have that pre-trip bull**** back then either.  You made sure the tires were up, applied the brakes to see if they worked, then hit the road.  Common sense, and a walkaround, told you what you needed to know.Last edited by farmersamm; 08-18-2014 at 04:42 PM.Reason: applied"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Still laugh, you really don't want to be near the valves when you pop the safetys"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Not a half bad start to a trucker story, but you didn't put in the critical component to any REAL trucker story. Without that you'll never be allowed to sit at the truckers only counter at the boofay.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Alright....EVERYBODYBack to the benches and take a break.Or Else....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Thanks guys.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....