HELP! Did I just blow something in my 12VS?

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I set up the 12VS and my new remote to work on a storage rack. Set the XMT to cc non electrode hot and the remote on. I ran the suitcase last weekend just fine on stick electrode hot mode for the Fabshield wire. When in cc remote on, the remote did not adjust the amperage readout with the contactor control switch on or off. I set the amps @ 160 using the panel dial and turned on the suitcase. It did its normal startup showing the dashed lines and then displayed the ocv & wire speed. When I started a bead it welded for a couple seconds and the contactor clicked and it stopped welding. I immediately looked at the readout and it was displaying dashes. The bead was extremely hot and it looked like the machine was on full output.Wondering what just happened I turned everything off and unplugged the remote. Switched the control dial to panel and the output to stick electrode hot. Turned on the suitcase and it did the startup and looked normal displaying ocv & wfs. Started another bead and stopped before it cut out. The display on the 12vs showed 40 volts! I ran another bead and it cut out just like it did before.One more try with the output set to vs feeder and the switch inside the 12VS on cv. This time it ran fine without cutting out.Did I blow something in the suitcase by having it in cc remote? Can it even be used with a remote?I did not adjust anything while welding.For a test I connected the stinger with output on stick electrode hot. Had remote on and ran a bead just fine. The remote adjusted the amps fine while welding.The only thing other thing that has changed beside the remote is adding a 12" neck to the gun. Everything else is the same.Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.Sent from my SPH-L710 using TapatalkTOO MANY TOOLS & NO MORE SPACE
Reply:Miller tech support just responded to my e-mail and they seem to think it might have been a coiled lead going to the feeder. He said it should have nothing to do with the remote and the XMT can be set to 4 different modes and run the 12VS just fine. I'm going to give it another try after work with perfectly straight 25' leads and see if it does it again.I have access to a Bobcat 250NT, might hook it up in stick mode and see if it still does it.TOO MANY TOOLS & NO MORE SPACE
Reply:OK, I can't figure this thing outHere are the constants of the following tests,30' 1/0 Hot lead35' 1/0 Ground lead @ 500A clampV.S. clamp hooked to ground clamp1/16" Hobart Fabshield 21B self shielded flux core wire1/2" plate flat beads across itAfter work I hooked it up to the Bobcat 250NT on the truck at the shop. Set the machine as follows,DCEN80-200A Coarse Range @ 60-70 FineCC Set on feederRan a couple of beads and it was a little cold, the wire would hit and stick . Turned the fine to 70 and it seemed like the wire was spraying a little far off the top of the plate. Played with the wfs & arc length a little and it worked fine.Got home and hooked it up to the XMT again to see if the problem would come back. Ran it with the following settings.>Stick (electrode hot)No remoteWire running a little hot, ended up at 120aAfter a bead, the feeder said around 18v and the XMT said 20vDID NOT HAVE THE PROBLEM>MIG (non electrode hot)Contactor off=no power to feederContactor on=power to feeder (guess that switch works properly)Remote/Panel to remoteCV on feeder90ipm @ 18vDID NOT HAVE THE PROBLEM>CC (non electrode hot)Contactor onRemote/Panel to remote170a panel-60% remoteFEEDER CUT OUT IF ARC LENGTH CHANGED CONSIDERABLY BUT DID NOT LOOSE POWER AND REBOOT.When it did cut out, the display voltage was around 30v.Went back to stick with no remote just to check and it ran fine. 123a@92ipmThe only thing I noticed is the gas connection on the back of the machine was a little warm. I was welding for a total of about 10 minutes. The problem I was having with power lossand rebootig did not show up tonight. The only difference was yesturday I had my 20' leads connected and the V.S. clamp was on another part of the project from the ground.Dont know what could have happened??????Sent from my GT-P3113 using TapatalkTOO MANY TOOLS & NO MORE SPACE
Reply:Thanks for the tips.Sent from my SPH-L710 using TapatalkTOO MANY TOOLS & NO MORE SPACE
Reply:I think your big issue was piggy backing the VS clamp on your ground clamp. I always clean a good spot to keep my VS clamp away from my weld ground. If you piggyback and your weld ground isn't making a good connection it messes with the VS brain and stuff gets weird. That's been my experience anyway. I had one Idiot that refused to believe that the ground has anything to do with the weld "cuz it aint the hot side"... Next!
Reply:When I had the problem the ground was about 1' away from the sensing lead. They were both on new clean angle. The tests tonight were made with the sensing lead on the ground.When I welded for the first time in ag class the teacher had a student who was "experienced" in welding set up the old Miller Thunderbolt machines. He wondered why the machine would not work, even went back to check the breaker panel. >Keep in mind I had never welded before but had done alot of homework reading welding books and watching videos<I said to him the ground needed to be on what you were welding not the table across the booth.He replied " I've been welding for x amount of years and know how to set a machine. As long as it's on metal it will weld" O.K. After he got tired of screwing with it, I switched the ground to the table and he "saw the light"Sent from my GT-P3113 using TapatalkTOO MANY TOOLS & NO MORE SPACE
Reply:I do plan on running the feeder in mig or vs feeder mode from now on. I just wanted to do some tests on cc to make sure nothing was damaged because I've got a project coming up at work where it will need to be run off the Bobcat.Sent from my GT-P3113 using TapatalkTOO MANY TOOLS & NO MORE SPACE
Reply:@ Chris T - my S32-P Super runs like a wild coyote on VS mode (XMT304) and CV wire feeder VS (TB 301G).  Never planned to run the "32" in CC mode."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Chris,Are you trying to run the suitcase with the SSC Remote attached to the XMT?  If you are, I bet you're screwing with how it was all designed to work, and there's some competing electrical problem.  I run the much cheaper S22P12 off of mine.  Steve 7A749 hooked me up with remote voltage and the control cable and I got zero issues.  You of course have an engine drive that's CC only to contend with.
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255Chris,Are you trying to run the suitcase with the SSC Remote attached to the XMT?  If you are, I bet you're screwing with how it was all designed to work, and there's some competing electrical problem.  I run the much cheaper S22P12 off of mine.  Steve 7A749 hooked me up with remote voltage and the control cable and I got zero issues.  You of course have an engine drive that's CC only to contend with.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Bobcat still has CV. It was made for running VS feeders.  The bobcat lacks a contactor but runs CV just fine.Didn't know if you were aware of that or not. Sounds like you got it going good.
Reply:Here's another thought.  Your XMT selector knob should be set to the 'V-Sense' Feeder setting.  The rocker Switch inside the 12VS feeder should be set to CV, not CC.I'm not certain I understand exactly what settings you were using.  BUT, if you had the XMT set to stick and the feeder switch set to CC, that could be the problem.The 12VS is powered by the welding current.  It siphon's a tiny amount of power from the weld circuit, using the small clamp from the feeder to the workpiece to make that power connection.  It also measures the voltage through that small clamp.  This is why the voltage displayed on the feeder is typically lower than the voltage displayed on the power supply.  The difference is the voltage drop through the welding cable.If you're setting the power supply to a Constant Current mode (CC) like stick, then the voltage on the welding circuit is going to vary all over the place.  If the voltage on the weld circuit drops too low then the VS feeder shuts off.  This could happen in CC mode as soon as you strike an arc, depending on the stickout and resulting arc length.  In a Constant Voltage (CV) process the voltage is held at whatever you set the power supply to deliver.  This generally ensures that there's enough voltage to keep the feeder active.  Make certain you have the power supply set to a process that is CV, NOT CC.  Then set the feeder rocker switch to the CV setting.  The only time to use the CC setting on the feeder rocker switch is if you're using the feeder with an older engine drive or power supply that is CC only.  Understand that using a CC only power supply is going to make the arc stability very dependant on your stickout or consistency of contact-tip-to-work distance.I've also seen issues with VS feeders when someone uses long runs of weld cable that's too small for the amount of weld current.  This creates a high voltage drop that can cause the feeder to shut off.  I've seen some cheap imported weld cable that was as thick as 2/0, but it was almost all rubber insulation.  The conductor inside was maybe as thick as #2 cable.  Even though the power supply was set to deliver 20V, by the time the resistance in the cable was factored in the VS feeder was only seeing 14V.  This isn't enough voltage to reliably keep the feeder itself running.(This doesn't sound like the problem in your case.  Although a tight coil of cable, even if short in length, could create some inductance that might have a negative effect on the voltage delivered through the weld circuit.)Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doHere's another thought.  Your XMT selector knob should be set to the 'V-Sense' Feeder setting.  The rocker Switch inside the 12VS feeder should be set to CV, not CC.I'm not certain I understand exactly what settings you were using.  BUT, if you had the XMT set to stick and the feeder switch set to CC, that could be the problem.The 12VS is powered by the welding current.  It siphon's a tiny amount of power from the weld circuit, using the small clamp from the feeder to the workpiece to make that power connection.  It also measures the voltage through that small clamp.  This is why the voltage displayed on the feeder is typically lower than the voltage displayed on the power supply.  The difference is the voltage drop through the welding cable.If you're setting the power supply to a Constant Current mode (CC) like stick, then the voltage on the welding circuit is going to vary all over the place.  If the voltage on the weld circuit drops too low then the VS feeder shuts off.  This could happen in CC mode as soon as you strike an arc, depending on the stickout and resulting arc length.  In a Constant Voltage (CV) process the voltage is held at whatever you set the power supply to deliver.  This generally ensures that there's enough voltage to keep the feeder active.  Make certain you have the power supply set to a process that is CV, NOT CC.  Then set the feeder rocker switch to the CV setting.  The only time to use the CC setting on the feeder rocker switch is if you're using the feeder with an older engine drive or power supply that is CC only.  Understand that using a CC only power supply is going to make the arc stability very dependant on your stickout or consistency of contact-tip-to-work distance.I've also seen issues with VS feeders when someone uses long runs of weld cable that's too small for the amount of weld current.  This creates a high voltage drop that can cause the feeder to shut off.  I've seen some cheap imported weld cable that was as thick as 2/0, but it was almost all rubber insulation.  The conductor inside was maybe as thick as #2 cable.  Even though the power supply was set to deliver 20V, by the time the resistance in the cable was factored in the VS feeder was only seeing 14V.  This isn't enough voltage to reliably keep the feeder itself running.(This doesn't sound like the problem in your case.  Although a tight coil of cable, even if short in length, could create some inductance that might have a negative effect on the voltage delivered through the weld circuit.)