SA-200 Ammeter Reading

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On my SA-200 F163 1975 welder was having problems with it "not" idleing down. The machine was not used much over the winter, only started ever now and then and  even then it would idle down. I basicly just cleaned and lubricated all moving parts in-addition to cleaning out the gas tank and changing oil and filter. Did not mess with any of the wiring etc. Got the machine to crank up ok and idle down. I do not know what the ammeter was reading prior to all this, but now the ammeter is reading a positive 22 - 23. I do not profess to be a mechanic or engine person, I would appreciate someone explaining to me the purpose of the ammeter and what it means when reading such a high positive reading and what if the meter shows a negative reading. Have the wiring diagram from Kaye at Bills Welding and will be going over the welder to make sure everything is in its proper place but in the meantime if help me I would be very grateful. And I promise to be very patient in waiting for a reply knowing the post may not be read by everyone immediately.
Reply:Originally Posted by JayRayAnd I promise to be very patient in waiting for a reply knowing the post may not be read by everyone immediately.
Reply:Duane does the positive reading being so high indicate a load on the machine? Seems like a high reading to me with the machine just running on idle. I am not that familar with what the ammeter reading should show at idle , high idle, arc struck, or will there be a difference? Just trying to understand what is going on here. The gauge that is on the machine has max. positive / negative reading of +/- 30 so the gauge is almost pegging out is why I am concerned.
Reply:I suspect it's just showing a higher charge rate as the battery voltage is probably low from sitting over the winter and cranking the engine.  Providing the battery is good and accepts a charge properly and there is no other load on the battery system, the charge rate (positive reading) will go down as the battery voltage increases.  As a rule of thumb, a good fully charged battery properly sized for the application takes an average of 7 minutes to be restored to a full charge after starting an engine.I don't know what amp output the generator/altenator is on your unit but 25-30 would be my guess and a full output to the battery system as registered on the ammeter would equal that of the charging device rating so 22-23 amps is just indicating the battery system is taking a 22-23 amp charge due to a low voltage condition.  I would assume you cranked the engine quite a bit while checking it out today (yesterday), correct?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:To add to what Duane said, you could check the output voltage to the battery just to be sure the regulator is functioning properly. You should read approx 14 volts across the battery terminals with the engine running.Gary Haunemail  [email protected]  http://haunsystemsrepair.com
Reply:Thanks for the replies; to my limited understanding; the alternator output keeps the battery charged. If the battery is good condition should show anywhere from 13 - 14 volts (know the ones on my boat show something around there when checking them) and if during cranking (and yes sometimes it does take abit of turning over to get the engine to initially start) the battery voltage is brought down, the alt. will recharge the battery. Will check my battery this morning to see what it is reading. Once the engine has run for say 5 - 10 min. it usually cranks right up most of the time. This leads to another question: I have been wanting to add the murphy gauges (oil and water), would it not be out of reason to add a voltmeter to show battery level or am I barking up a wrong tree? I have a set of three ganged gauges just not the murphy gauges and thought I could mount them just underneath the face plate where they could be easily read. (just a thought). Anyway thanks for the replies.
Reply:Voltmeters became popular because of the need to correct an unsafe practice in vehicles.Bringing a high-amp supply into the cabin of your vehicle brings a whole host of risks with it.  I have never found a voltmeter to be useful when using it to monitor battery condition on a running engine and was happy to see an ammeter on my SA-200Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:The more I mess with this the more confused I get. I charged my battery...after charging read 12.78 - 13 volts. Rechecked all my wiring connections..all seem to be ok. Run the welder..still shows +23 or more on the ammeter. Question 1: under "normal" operating conditions - fully charged battery and all other things working correctly what should the ammeter be reading?  Q2: Going by the wiring diagram I am using; the + from battery goes to the solenoid large nut terminal, a blk wire on that terminal goes to the - side of the ammeter. Don't understand that part..why come off a + terminal to a - terminal..it is probably right but I been trying to read all I can on how all this works and I seem to be backing up. As far as the voltmeter..not a real concern just want to make sure my machine is working correctly and I have the proper instruments to tell me such. How do you tell if the alternator is working correctly..I have a meter but not sure how to properly set it for a reading off the alternator (motorola 35 amp). tks for replies.
Reply:Originally Posted by JayRay The more I mess with this the more confused I get. I charged my battery...after charging read 12.78 - 13 volts. Rechecked all my wiring connections..all seem to be ok. Run the welder..still shows +23 or more on the ammeter.  Sounds like the alternator is overcharging due to the field being fed too much current. Is the regulator still in the circuit? Question 1: under "normal" operating conditions - fully charged battery and all other things working correctly what should the ammeter be reading? As the battery reaches full charge, @ 14 volts, voltage regulator should reduce alternator output and ammeter reading should taper to zero.  Q2: Going by the wiring diagram I am using; the + from battery goes to the solenoid large nut terminal, a blk wire on that terminal goes to the - side of the ammeter. Don't understand that part..why come off a + terminal to a - terminal..it is probably right but I been trying to read all I can on how all this works and I seem to be backing up.  So far, ammeter wiring sounds correct. Ammeter Neg is not the same as chassis Neg.  As far as the voltmeter..not a real concern just want to make sure my machine is working correctly and I have the proper instruments to tell me such. How do you tell if the alternator is working correctly? Charge rate tapers to zero as battery voltage approaches 14 volts.  I have a meter but not sure how to properly set it for a reading off the alternator (motorola 35 amp). tks for replies.  Charging voltage can be read between Pos and Neg battery terminals. Amp readings are mostly not necessary, for routine checks. Anyway, inductive ammeter can be clamped around alternator's "Bat" wire. For more accurate readings,  keep some distance from magnetic fields. Old school ammeter can be placed in series with alternator's "Bat" wire.
Reply:When the engine is not running the battery voltage should be 13 vdc to 13.2 vdc, when the engine is running and charging system working properly you should read at the battery around 14vdc to 14.4vdc
Reply:Well, first off, thanks for replies; answers just about all my questions. I guess you can say good news or bad news - just depends on how you look at it....not only was the voltage regulator not working, the alternator was not also shot. I had to order new alternator, was cheaper to get one from stumps than from local people here. So, when get everything back operational will post update. As mentioned, thanks for the "enlightment". jt
Reply:Is only an alternator/reg so that will be an easy fix.  Now you will have a good machine that works without a flaw. Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:Got my new Alternator/Voltage Regulator in today and got everything "re-wired" according to diagram that Ms Kaye has on her web site. Did have time to start it up..ammeter now is reading right at the "0" mark. Will finish putting new spark plugs and wires on tomorrow and "if" I understand this correctly; I need to check my battery voltage before starting then while engine is running check battery voltage to see if alt is charging battery.If there is no movement on ammeter or very little and battery is showing an increase in voltage then I have should have this under control. Thanks for all the help on this, just trying to get problems cleaned up on the machine. tks again.