What material is this? railroad plate...

admin

I have a few of these plates I plan to weld for a project...I am hoping they are just a high carbon steel...    and not something dangerous?I know some railroad material is Manganese? want to be sorta sure before I make smoke...thanks. Miller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:A variant of tie/fish plates.  Perhaps nodular cast iron or Q235.  Reference."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:HmmmCast iron?They dont appear to be castLike any cast ive seenI'd like to stick weld them together /flat side up Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMiller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:take a sledge hammer and beat one of those plates, if it cracks its cast, it could also be malleable steal...Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:Have used 7018 to weld them, its tough material. What are you making? Welding them does make weld zone brittle. Those pieces are nailed to wood railroad ties and the railroad rail sits on top. All nailed with railroad spikes.
Reply:I don't know what they are made from. I used a couple on a backhoe thumb. I lift 3 ton boulders with the thumb, without cracks. I believe I used 80TAC+ cellulose rod DC+.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Yea, as above I'm not sure what exactly they are, but they are not cast. I used one in my upright anvil and I cut it with a torch with no problems. It doesn't seem to be as high in carbon as the rails were.  I've also welded to them with 6013 and 7014 up around 120 to 140 amps AC with no problems. I have seen used ones that have cracked around the square holes from trains running over them, but I've hammered on them pretty hard and never broke one.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Just using wild *** guess technology here, but I seriously doubt whether the tie plates have a high manganese content. Manganese is generally used on the railroad only for repairs to the switch points and frogs because they experience such high sheering loads from the wheel flanges they come in contact with.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Pretty sure any manganese content would have made for some wild sparks during cutting... didn't see anything like that.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by guajilloweld03. What are you making?.
Reply:I believe I saw somewhere that they are on the order of 1050 steel, or at least something a bit more wear resistant than the spikes. However, some guy actually had one tested:Railroad tie plate (surprise here for me; I was figuring on something like 1050):C:0.19 | Mn:0.42 | P:0.005 | S:0.030 | Si::0.04 | Cu:0.24 | Cr:0.05 | Mo:0.009 | Ni:0.07 | Sn:0.011 | V: - | Nb: -I did see mention of AREA and ASTM specifications for both low and high carbon tie plates, so it's mystery metal."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:I used a couple as base plates for stands for holding up the cans on scrapers or dozer bull armsWelded on some 3 x 3 x 3/8..X 30 inch tall  tube used 7018 or dual shield  I used a few for welding students to weld on with my TB Then make them remove the weld with the airarc Weld On ...Weld Off...Backed my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Don't know if this helps but looks like it's steelTie plates[edit]A tie plate, baseplate or sole plate is a steel plate used on rail tracks between flanged T rail and the crossties. The tie plate increases bearing area and holds the rail to correct gauge. They are fastened to wooden ties by means of spikes or bolts through holes in the plate.The part of the plate under the rail base is tapered, setting the cant of the rail, an inward rotation from the vertical. The usual slope is one in forty ( 1.4 degrees ). The top surface of the plate has one or two shoulders that fit against the edges of the base of the rail. The double-shoulder type is currently used. Older single-shoulder types were adaptable for various rail widths, with the single shoulder positioned on the outside (field side) of the rails. Most plates are slightly wider on the field side, without which the plates tend to cut more into the outsides of the tie, reducing cant angle.Many railways use large wood screws, also called lag screws, to fasten the tie plates (or baseplates) to the railroad ties.Tie plates came into use around the year 1900, before which time flanged T rail was spiked directly to the tiesLast edited by akphill; 11-07-2015 at 12:50 PM.trailblazer 302thunderbolt ac dc machine Hobart fluxcoreAHP tig 200x 2015
Reply:I put a square of heavy iron on the top of my upright anvil and I use it to weld small projects a lot. Sometimes it's really handy to be able to walk around it as opposed to working on a bench or large table. I'm 5'9" and I find that 39 to 40" level is great to work with. If you are concerned about the plates breaking apart under severe hammering, just build a sturdy frame to drop them in. Trying to grind the bevelled side flat takes a lot of grinding, but might be an option if you can get them milled and make the surface 2 plates thick.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Well,We will see what happens when I get around to Zapping it. I got the framework square and  tacked up today...It's a good thing I weld for a hobby......   If I did it for a living, I'd be fired the first day....   damn, I work slow. LoL !!  it's good therapy though...    Miller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:Has anyone bitched about steel prices lately?good grief.. I spent $100 today for 4  10' sections of 1"x 2"x 3/16" square tube. and that's pickin through the bargain bin.... $1.00 a LB.Miller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:Get's worse up here.... I ordered a piece of mechanic's tubing in August and I haven't seen it yet. Hope they aren't charging me storage somewhere as well.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:John-TAge tells the tale . . .Your photo examples: #1 & #2 - date from different periods.Example #2 appears to be cast.  If it is: circa 1900, it could be forged/cast - wrought-iron, or semi-steel, but not cast-iron.Inspect the base-perimeter, and the definition of the hole walls.   Especially telling - is the distance [actual meat] from the hole wall tothe edge.  If punched there would be 'a pooch'.Punching holes close to an edge twist the punch to 'the light side', and will eventually 'beaver' the bottom die - then 'shatter the punch'.Example #1 most likely is: a hot-rolled alloy steel - cut/sheared, and punched.  Note: how inboard, the outboard holes have migrated. Tooled with a dedicated bottom die, it is easily punched through the center of the cleats.Your acquisition appears to be modern material.Spark Testing- with a good color/pattern chart is not to be feared.  I offer an OA - control test.Perfectly tune an OA flame for mild steel [0 slag - razor bottom corner] the same gage as the track cleats.Blast or grind - the top and bottom to pure metal - OA cut.If it's a manganese alloy the 'perfect flame' will produced pronounced 'feathers' on the kerf walls.  There is nothing you can do with OA to improve the quality of the cut - it a result of the nonoxidising properties of manganese.- - - -This begs a question for the 'Plasma Jockeys' - does Manganese-Steel [dirt cutting edges] exhibit kerf irregularities when plasma cut?Essentially - oxidation vs an electrically generated plasma reaction . . .Which produces the best cutting result?OpuspsWhether it is: wrought-iron, semi-steel, or manganese-steel, all - weld/well - with 7018..Last edited by OPUS FERRO; 11-08-2015 at 12:41 AM.Reason: i & ts'
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROJohn-TAge tells the tale . . .Your photo examples: #1 & #2 - date from different periods.Example #2 appears to be cast.  If it is: circa 1900, it could be forged/cast - wrought-iron, or semi-steel, but not cast-iron.Inspect the base-perimeter, and the definition of the hole walls.   Especially telling - is the distance [actual meat] from the hole wall tothe edge.  If punched there would be 'a pooch'.Punching holes close to an edge twist the punch to 'the light side', and will eventually 'beaver' the bottom die - then 'shatter the punch'.Example #1 most likely is: a hot-rolled alloy steel - cut/sheared, and punched.  Note: how inboard, the outboard holes have migrated. Tooled with a dedicated bottom die, it is easily punched through the center of the cleats.Your acquisition appears to be modern material.Spark Testing- with a good color/pattern chart is not to be feared.  I offer an OA - control test.Perfectly tune an OA flame for mild steel [0 slag - razor bottom corner] the same gage as the track cleats.Blast or grind - the top and bottom to pure metal - OA cut.If it's a manganese alloy the 'perfect flame' will produced pronounced 'feathers' on the kerf walls.  There is nothing you can do with OA to improve the quality of the cut - it a result of the nonoxidising properties of manganese.- - - -This begs a question for the 'Plasma Jockeys' - does Manganese-Steel [dirt cutting edges] exhibit kerf irregularities when plasma cut?Essentially - oxidation vs an electrically generated plasma reaction . . .Which produces the best cutting result?OpuspsWhether it is: wrought-iron, semi-steel, or manganese-steel, all - weld/well - with 7018.Are you describing a tendency to melt, but not burn the manganese component in the steel? Those I've been picking up for years, all from one source, left as debris at rail road edges are sort of soft. I think of manganese as harder, and tougher than that. I rarely use them for anything where appearance matters, but as feet for almost any utilitarian structure, as in stairs into a storage trailer, or shed. A welding table might be tricky to keep flat, but with press, or flame straightening, it could work..
Reply:Manganese will not weld well with 7018, it may appear to wet in good, but will not hold. Plasma cuts like steel.
Reply:May be too late but instead of welding the plates together you could make the table such that the plates would merely lay into the framework and fit tightly to each other. I made my outdoor cutting table that way, I laid a section of storm drain grate inside the angle frame. I have 5 more feet of that storm drain left and I am making another table right now, however for this one I will also make a solid top of say 1/8" turned down along the edges so I can lay it on top when I don't want the open grates for cutting. Like to use 1/4" but not sure about the weight, putting it on and taking it off. The design of the drain grate keeps it remarkably flat. I paid .35 lb for it at the scrap yard.Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:I was thinking a frame of heavy angle iron as well... you might need some extra supports under the plates to hold them flat.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:That's what I was thinking, from the looks of those plates he would only need a couple pieces of channel or angle and adjacent plates would rest together on one support. I think it would make it very flat as well, and offer the option to easily swap out a warped one. Also would make it easier to move.Last edited by bigb; 11-08-2015 at 12:28 PM.Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:The plates are slightly angled... so I need to grind the outer portions to match the lower insides...   so it will lay flat. (see pics)not wanting to mega-grind any more in my garage.... wanted to move it outside...    I decided to tack the plates together....  against my better judgment, I cranked the Miller 211 balls to the wall and zapped it. the 2 welds failed as soon as I picked it up... basically NO Preparation didn't help any.. LOLSo I used my Big Louie 6011 rods at 100 amps... and it seemed to penetrate well... not the prettiest weld... but WTF. I am thinkin when I'm ready to final zap, I will 6011 ...  trying to lay a hot root pass...   then cover it with a couple 7018 passes ... There will also be room to lay some weld on the top side also...then grind it flat. Pretty happy so far... welp,Off to grinding I go.  Bigb,Thats a slick cutting table.  nice job. Last edited by John T; 11-08-2015 at 12:56 PM.Reason: cuzMiller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:Actually,I think I'm gonna run a center support down the middle... so I won't have to grind and even out that angle...   It helps to stop and drink a beer and think about things...Miller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.looks good, I see why the first welds failed though. Your engineer was sleeping on the job!Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:Originally Posted by bigblooks good, I see why the first welds failed though. Your engineer was sleeping on the job!
Reply:I learned the hard way that the rust on that railroad iron is a lot more of an insulator than you realize. I can understand not wanting to grind those ramps flat, but you really need to clean up where u are welding if you want solid joints. Well...that and have another beer of course...Hmmmm....now you have me thinking about another attachment for my upright anvil, maybe with 2 or 3 of those plates.Last edited by whtbaron; 11-08-2015 at 01:38 PM.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaron, but you really need to clean up where u are welding if you want solid joints. Well...that and have another beer .
Reply:Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMiller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:Looking good.... I like that.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:I ran some 1/8" 7018 x-caliber on the backside...   seems to be penetrating well.... so much so as I'm getting a little twist out of it...    being so thick/heavy.. I didn't think that would happen..  but I had the heat cranked up and really dug it in there..skipping around it pulls it back a bit. I'm not gonna bother trying to clamp it, Like I said originally It's just a portable roll away table/rest etc. gotta thank Louie again for turning me on to these 7018 excalibur rods.. OMG.    It almost looks like I know what I'm doing... LoL ! [ATTACH=CONFIG]1267721[/ATTACH]are the hobart 7018 similar?  I know they are cheaper.. Attached ImagesMiller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:Can't help you on the rods, I don't think I've ever tried Hobarts. Maybe with the welding you need to work in shorter sections and move around to prevent distortion. Similar to what they do with sheet metal when they do tacks every couple inches and jump around filling in between them. Of course you could always stop for more beers...250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Predict the bend, pre bend the other way. Make strips. Joining the strips, do the same. You can heat straighten somewhat. I'd probably do the face first, then if you have to use a heavy weld to straighten, you can put it where it won't be seen.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BPredict the bend, pre bend the other way. Make strips. Joining the strips, do the same. You can heat straighten somewhat. I'd probably do the face first, then if you have to use a heavy weld to straighten, you can put it where it won't be seen.
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROJohn-TAge tells the tale . . .Your photo examples: #1 & #2 - date from different periods.Example #2 appears to be cast.  If it is: circa 1900, it could be forged/cast - wrought-iron, or semi-steel, but not cast-iron.Inspect the base-perimeter, and the definition of the hole walls.   Especially telling - is the distance [actual meat] from the hole wall tothe edge.  If punched there would be 'a pooch'.Punching holes close to an edge twist the punch to 'the light side', and will eventually 'beaver' the bottom die - then 'shatter the punch'.Example #1 most likely is: a hot-rolled alloy steel - cut/sheared, and punched.  Note: how inboard, the outboard holes have migrated. Tooled with a dedicated bottom die, it is easily punched through the center of the cleats.Your acquisition appears to be modern material.Spark Testing- with a good color/pattern chart is not to be feared.  I offer an OA - control test.Perfectly tune an OA flame for mild steel [0 slag - razor bottom corner] the same gage as the track cleats.Blast or grind - the top and bottom to pure metal - OA cut.If it's a manganese alloy the 'perfect flame' will produced pronounced 'feathers' on the kerf walls.  There is nothing you can do with OA to improve the quality of the cut - it a result of the nonoxidising properties of manganese.- - - -This begs a question for the 'Plasma Jockeys' - does Manganese-Steel [dirt cutting edges] exhibit kerf irregularities when plasma cut?Essentially - oxidation vs an electrically generated plasma reaction . . .Which produces the best cutting result?OpuspsWhether it is: wrought-iron, semi-steel, or manganese-steel, all - weld/well - with 7018..
Reply:Update..I am not really happy how this railroad plate is reacting to welding...  not only is it slightly twisting due to heat...  In doing so, It cracked a split right down the middle of a bead of 1/8" 7018  ...  I grooved it and rewelded it...  reinforced it etc..   and I will keep it for...  whatever...   maybe backyard art...   or a back patio table top...anyway,I am very happy with the base framework. So my question is,I would like to use the same material for the top...   as a slotted table top. Question,what should the spacing be to allow for some sort of clamping tool?    stronghand, or similar? the stock is 1"x 2"x 3/16"   If I remember right...  so it should be plenty strong when welded up...any thoughts?thanks.pics comingMiller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMiller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:guess the question is,How do these slatted / slotted? tables work? Is strong hand the only brand available?   they seem pricey....   like to find a cheaper version or make my own if possible...anyway, just talkin out loud. open to ideas. again,   light duty table/auxiliary portable table.  clamp, cut or clamp zap done.Miller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221  True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:Louie1961 brought me over some 7018 and 6011 last night... so maybe I'll use those..
Reply:Any updates on this one? Maybe post some pics up of the plates you abandoned. Possibly someone will have a solution to what was going wrong.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronAny updates on this one? Maybe post some pics up of the plates you abandoned. Possibly someone will have a solution to what was going wrong.
Reply:Looks good... you might wish you had set those castors in further the first time you stub your toe on them though.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronLooks good... you might wish you had set those castors in further the first time you stub your toe on them though.
Reply:You should turn your heat up a bit more.  The weld bead looked a tad cold. I have a ton of these plates and have been welding then for years.   I make inexpensive suspended shooting targets with them and several umbrella stands by welding a vertical pipe on top, perpendicular to the ground. I've been successfully using 6010/6011, 7014, 7018 and 7024's with no problems.   For the holes, I use a copper backing and mig them closed, followed by a light flap disc to get them flush.  For handguns they work great as a gong.  But for a rifle even as small as a .223/5.56mm,  they put huge "moon craters" in the surface.  I don't care about that because they still go "(((GONG))) when hit and last for a long time.   When they finally are destroyed beyond repair, I scrap them at a recycling yard.  I believe they are nothing more than mild steel or very close to a mild steel alloy if you will, because that's how they handled when shooting and when I once did a spark test.   They are dirty but fun to play around with for various projects.  I've never found them difficult to weld with at all.  Just turn up the heat and ensure the joint is clean and beveled if wielding them Together.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member