To learn the hard way?

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So I've been digging around and found a thread on old welding pics and it got me thinking. For some reason unknown to me I have never been blessed with the option of taking the easy way out of anything, I've always taken the stubborn, hard headed (if they did it why can I do it better?) blood sweat and whiskey approach.  But I realized it made me understand what I was doing a little better, because learning things the hard way means you learn and understand things that may not seem important when being performed by a mechanical gizmo,but become invaluable tools of the trade when it needs to be done by hand! So that's my .02 cents about learning things the hard way.I've always had an old soul and have an appreciation for the dying art of hand fabrication. You will never take the same pride in buying something you can make.    No Matter how many times I grab a hot piece of steel, bust my knuckles, hammer my thumb, get something in my eyeball, and throw every tool I own while singing an opera made of every foul word I know..... It's always worth it when the project is done!!!!I would love to hear your guys opinions and thoughts in the subject maybe even a few war stories from the fab floor. and I ask  !! Is it better to learn the hard way or take the easy rout !!??Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:After reading that I would say you should try and benefit from a more thoughtful approach."if you're gonna be dumb, you'll have to be tough...."Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Trust me I've heard that more than once!!Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:Originally Posted by Dantheharleyman99Trust me I've heard that more than once!!
Reply:It doesn't have to be one or the other. I take my learning anyway I can get it. "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyIt doesn't have to be one or the other. I take my learning anyway I can get it.
Reply:The reason i brought this topic up was not to say learning with new equipment isn't a good thing. It definitely helps to have the proper tools for the job! My intention is to get peoples creative minds jump started and to learn that techniques and tricks seem to stick a little better when they are not taught but learned by overcoming the obstacle with your own hands, plus it's really gratifying when you have that (eureka) moment after figuring something out !  I also will take my learning any way I can get it !! I love learning new thingsThis is my opinion, yours may differ!Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:Originally Posted by Dantheharleyman99The reason i brought this topic up was not to say learning with new equipment isn't a good thing. It definitely helps to have the proper tools for the job! My intention is to get peoples creative minds jump started and to learn that techniques and tricks seem to stick a little better when they are not taught but learned by overcoming the obstacle with your own hands, plus it's really gratifying when you have that (eureka) moment after figuring something out !  I also will take my learning any way I can get it !! I love learning new thingsThis is my opinion, yours may differ!
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveSlow learner!
Reply:Some of us have no choice but to learn the hard way (or read how to do it here). I have what you might call "an idiot for a teacher"....... Me.My neighbor has taught me the basics but he too is self taught and learned by necessity........he has a 200 acre ranch to keep up. I this area, I have learned a lot more about life than welding from him.
Reply:I've never figured out the easy way to do anything.
Reply:Learn when to learn the 'hard way' and when to defer. "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:all my life it's been the hard way but have to say like myself it's getting old.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:good post steve.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:The "hard way" is buying a kite and string and going out in a thunder storm, jumping out of a plane without a parachute, poking the bear in the azz with a stick,,,, .Of course you could always learn the "hard way" that the easy way doesn't necessarily work out either. Like asking Bubba how to build a parachute. "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:the hard way to me is the best way, in a slightly different context.learning to perfectly cut by hand before being introduced to the cnc tablelearning to bevel with grinder before learning the lathelearning out of position welding before learning the positionerhaving to lay out angles full-scale on the floor before attempting any mathI could go on forever! but the moral of the story is I learned and understand much better what I am doing since I was forced to take all the baby steps. that guy was a pain in my butt back then but I learned to appreciate him. I wouldn't have it any other way.bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:Now we're talking.. This thread is starting to take shape, let's hear some life experiences here guys, how not having a tool forced you to build a better one by hand, or when you burned through a whole tank of argon because you left your bottle on with a leaky valve on your torch! What kind of problems have you run into and had to figure them out on the fly or on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere. Or maybe you learned something new by someone showing you the easy way!! I think our life experiences make us who we are and reflect in the decisions we make!Thanks to everyone who has shared a story! Or what they thought!Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:The hard way , Dan. Hands on, dirty, greasy, hot, cold. I think the hard way is the easy way. You don't forget. 27 years as a heavy equipment mechanic, over 50 years burnin rod. No formal training in either. Certified stick, and for a long time #2 man in maintenance for a 2000 piece paving co. All learned hands on. The hard way. But maybe that only worked in my case cause I WANTED to learn. I taught younger guys that some unskilled assembler in a factory put it together, we can take it apart and put it back. Tried to make the young pups understand that there is always a way! Wheather you got to make a tool, or spend hours rigging, or use 4 come- alongs, Dont give up. It is a problem to be solved, and it is the problems that teach us. That we should learn something everyday, that when everything is going good its boring and we haven't learned anything.   A few of the most important things I have learned in the hard knocks school are: Don't be embarrassed to say "I don't know". Somebody does, lets ask them. That Iron feels no pain, and only bleeds fuel or coolant or hydraulic. Make sure everyone goes home safe everyday. That when a problem has you stumped, a fresh set of eyes sometimes see what we cant. And when you work in the field by yourself, THINK. You may lay a long time before someone finds you, and all bleeding eventually stops.       Looking back Dan, I never really did the wrenching and welding for the money. Granted I was paid, and well. But the personal satisfaction and pride in a job well done was the real reward. And the young guys that I helped train that are carrying the ball now, that called for help a lot then, and rarely now. Proud of em!   Yep, the hard way school worked for me .    Thanks for letting me ramble, ChuckTo ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth. This was the ancient law of youth. Old times are past, old days are done, but the law runs true oh little son.Winpower 180 DCSA-200 redfaceXMT-304
Reply:All learning is hard.Parroting everyone else is much easier.It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
Reply:At times the hard way is out of necessity. When you learn that way it is seldom forgotten.
Reply:personal experiences: too many to list. I think I learn the hard way every day.I don't have every fitting-take-off memorized (butt-weld is easy though)I cant do fractions 100% all the time in my headmeasure twice, cut oncethat grout-line wasn't square at allto never say, "I don't miss"one experience that always stuck with me, and I will never forget, is safety related. I was tasked with standing on a ladder and signaling the rt lift operator while my co-worker stood on a ladder 20ft away to set this 10" header with 8" taps about 24" long. header length was about 15' by memory.somehow, this thing ended up being set down on stands (about 8' tall) one tap off if that makes since. so, telling the operator to go "up" to fix the problem effectively decreased the boom length and put a pull on the pipe that I couldn't see from my vantage point nor could operator or my co-worker. as soon as that tap cleared the stand It was hung up on, this piece of pipe took off like a rocket toward the wall I was leaning against. the next tap back caught my co-worker's ladder and pinned it against a stand, but somehow managed to hold it up and keep him from falling, and the end of the pipe simultaneously hit the block-wall inches from my face. we all get down and come together to see who is hurt. my coworker who got the worst ended up with a broken pinky nail, and that was the worst of the injuries.I learned the hard way that day that even a "simple" set deserves caution and looks from multiple angles. I had set much bigger equipment than that little pipe before and took it for granted. I learned that day that most people don't get the chance I did, much less what my co-worker did. a subtle difference in the circumstance would have meant death to him, by MY direction.. . . .sounds small but apparently those are the ones that get youmy younger brother called me on Friday in a tone of voice I had only heard from him once before. he's a lineman's apprentice. he told me this time about a mistake made by a previous installer that led to a huge arc-fire for him and his journeyman. scary thing is, the "journeyman" wanted to tie this in by hand, but my bro convinced him to use poles. if it weren't for that odd occasion of pro listening to amateur, they both would have been dead in a bucket. it was a "small" line of 13.8kv so it was rare to tie-in remotely. luckily they only ended up with burnt shirts and a slight "sunburn"I told him the same thing I have learned. .  . .your lucky to have got one. don't forget it.bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin