new yoke/u-joints = drive shaft damage

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My drive shaft is aluminum and the u-joints have a nylon lock injected in from the factory.It seems as though the only way to remove them is to heat them up and they squirt out.Well, I brought my stuff to a shop because I don't have a torch. I explained my concern with the heat and everything and they said no worries.So, I dropped it off and waited for them to call me when it was finished. A couple of hours later, they called. I picked it up and to my surprise while loading in my car, I noticed that the tech melted the end of one side. I brought it back in and showed them the damage. The owner said no worries, its fine, if anything happens bring it back and the work is free, including a new drive shaft. What concerns me is it a 2wd 4dr Tahoe, not the lightest vehicle and would be rather violent if it were to let go.Am I overreacting about this?Should I fill it in and grind it down?
Reply:Ruined the heat treat in the aluminum.  It's soft as butter now.  I would not take it back.  The drive shaft end appears to be a forging.  Heating it that much would certainly alter its properties.
Reply:Was this a driveline shop that did this?
Reply:Originally Posted by 76GMC1500Ruined the heat treat in the aluminum.  It's soft as butter now.  I would not take it back.  The drive shaft end appears to be a forging.  Heating it that much would certainly alter its properties.
Reply:Not excusing the work by any means cause this is a dumb *** move heating it that hot but I have seen ones come in the shop worse than that done by other shops and the customer opted to keep running it and they are still on the road. It is true though you do have to heat them to get the nylon ring to melt out but that is way too hot. In the event that some how a dumb *** hack took over my body and I did something like this I would make it right replace the drive shaft and go home feeling just a lot dumber. I would ask for a replacement sometimes in the car world stuff happens that is just unavoidable but this is not one of them. In the event that after the ring was out and they were having difficulty getting it apart and continued to heat a call to you first should have been made to explain what was happening before this point but I doubt that was the case.I could be wrong also and please if anyone knows for sure but I would be will to bet that the drive shaft was not heat treated after it was welded.Last edited by KD Welding; 08-30-2014 at 07:48 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by sqznby I brought it back in and showed them the damage. The owner said no worries, its fine, if anything happens bring it back and the work is free, including a new drive shaft.
Reply:Originally Posted by sqznbyMy drive shaft is aluminum and the u-joints have a nylon lock injected in from the factory.It seems as though the only way to remove them is to heat them up and they squirt out..................................
Reply:To me it looks like dings from POUNDING out the cups with a hammer. I am OCD on this stuff and always use a press or use sockets to support shaft and a bench vise to push out cups. I hate when people beat the shaft like they hate it to remove cups.
Reply:Originally Posted by tig dummyTo me it looks like dings from POUNDING out the cups with a hammer. I am OCD on this stuff and always use a press or use sockets to support shaft and a bench vise to push out cups. I hate when people beat the shaft like they hate it to remove cups.
Reply:Easiest way to deal with u joints is to cut the cross apart so you don't have to press 2 sides at once. I heat the cap rather than the yoke to get the plastic out. It really doesn't take much heat. While being a Fup the yoke should be fine.
Reply:Originally Posted by sbchp355Not excusing the work by any means cause this is a dumb *** move heating it that hot but I have seen ones come in the shop worse than that done by other shops and the customer opted to keep running it and they are still on the road. It is true though you do have to heat them to get the nylon ring to melt out but that is way too hot. In the event that some how a dumb *** hack took over my body and I did something like this I would make it right replace the drive shaft and go home feeling just a lot dumber. I would ask for a replacement sometimes in the car world stuff happens that is just unavoidable but this is not one of them. In the event that after the ring was out and they were having difficulty getting it apart and continued to heat a call to you first should have been made to explain what was happening before this point but I doubt that was the case.I could be wrong also and please if anyone knows for sure but I would be will to bet that the drive shaft was not heat treated after it was welded.
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DEasiest way to deal with u joints is to cut the cross apart so you don't have to press 2 sides at once. I heat the cap rather than the yoke to get the plastic out. It really doesn't take much heat. While being a Fup the yoke should be fine.
Reply:I'm sure you won't get a new one but a good used should be in order. No they shouldn't have had to get midevil on it that's why I said that I doubted that it was that stuck. Based on your location. A friend of mine whom I worked with at a dealership in VT moved to NC and said the shop fire wrench never got used and collected dust where here is a daily necessity. I don't believe that they are heat treated. The drive shaft yoke end are cast aluminum. Again I'm not a expert in the metallurgy but I thought cast hardness was more based on the alloy used. Also you wouldn't want to use a rose bud to heat the end of that drive shaft. A regular o/a setup with a 00 tip is better. Aluminum displaces heat so fast there is no need to heat a large area with a rose bud. Just have to keep the heat moving.
Reply:Really crappy what they did to this. For future reference, there is a bit for an air hammer that makes removal quite easy. I bought one for swapping joints in my 2000 Silverado (my 1st vehicle with an aluminum drive shaft).GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Almost looks welded to me, what with what appears to be cracks or something.  I see differences between materials I think, coupled with some grinder marks.Might just be my old eyes, but the valley at the top of the yoke, where you think there's been heat damage, looks to be dissimilar materials.  Dunno"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by sqznbyShould I fill it in and grind it down?
Reply:Advise the lousy shop owner you don't feel comfortable with that and you plan to Bring it to a state certified vehicle inspection center, to have them stamp-it approved or rejected, just that might make them move... edit: I don't think it will fail suddenly and cause catastrophic damages, vibrations and other sounds will announce it...where and how long is another questionLast edited by snowbird; 08-31-2014 at 09:47 AM.
Reply:I've been taught to never use a press on u-joints because you can bend an ear. I always use a hammer.
Reply:Originally Posted by sqznbyThe yoke is not aluminum, only the drive shaft.
Reply:Some cast aluminum alloys are heat treatable to improve strength and toughness others aren't.   A good over view of the subject can be found here...     http://www.heat-treat-doctor.com/doc...20Castings.pdf
Reply:A bad burnout with wheel hop should take care of that. Just make sure the shop will cover the damages when that piece of freshly made scrap metal fails.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTI've been taught to never use a press on u-joints because you can bend an ear. I always use a hammer.
Reply:I would not use that driveshaft because if it fails it could  "Pogo Stick" your truck and cause significant damage. Due to it being at the front where the yoke is. Hell, that thing might vibrate so bad, you wont be driving hwy speeds for long.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyWell you have to , or at least should, make sure that bottom 'ear or lobe' is supported against the push. I have a few short cutoffs of right sized tubes and such that I've accumulated over time that work for supporting the ear and pushing the cup through. If nothing else you can push with the bottom ear against a flat plate untill the cup hits. By then you've broken the worst of the crud & friction seal that these build up with time. Anything like that is all about watching and feeling what's going on. But yeh, I've seen guys bend the ears just using a BFH and drive pins. Lay the drive shaft over a 4x4 and whack away till something gives. I saw one guy egg shape the drive shaft tube putting it in the vise and super cranking it down. Some guys can and will screw it up if at all possible.
Reply:This is what I was talking about. A little patience guarantees no damage.http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-18980-Pn.../dp/B000TSU1BGGravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.Originally Posted by VPTBut even with the lower ear flat on some surface, if the upper cup is stuck in the upper ear while pressing that upper ear will bend inward. There is no real way to hold BOTH ears stationary while pressing any of the caps out or in.With a hammer the idea is that the "jolts/shock" will break the caps free and drive them out. Really a guy shouldn't be using a hammer big enough or enough swing to bend an ear but yes I am sure it happens. I have been using the hammer method for many many years and could say I have changed well over 100 joints and have yet to bend an ear.I do have presses but like I said I was taught not to use them for u-joints. My teacher was a 45-50 year old shop instructor (if alive yet would be 75 years old+) at an actual automotive institution not just a highschool shop guy. While I was young I do remember him to be very knowledgeable and everything he took the time to show me or teach me was spot on even to this day.More than one way to skin a cat either way. If the press works, have at it.
Reply:I used to use my shop vise, and a two sockets the right size and slowly close the vise on it and they would push through alright.
Reply:I've used most methods and after years of doing it prefer a smallish hammer (about 12oz-16oz). It's got the least chance of tearing anything up. I've had a LOT more damage done while using a press than any other method I've used. Just to easy to get to rough. As for the vise well I've seen a lot of broken vises doing it that way.   After doing it so much I've got a very detailed method worked out. The very first thing after getting the snap rings out is to take a die grinder and slightly enlarge the area outside the snap rings. Makes a HUGE difference in getting them out and putting them back in more than one way. I have two different work benches setup with a vise level with the top of the table. Lay the drive shaft on the table so that the cups can go down between the vise jaws. Use a punch at least 3/4" dia and go to town. Once out when putting them back together always make sure that the cross is inserted into the cup before hitting it. Drive the first cup through the first ear all the way or at least nearly so. Insert snap ring on that side. Turn over start second cup on sticking through cross (because it was drove through extra the cross will be sticking out or at least close enough that you can lift it slightly to allow it to be started) drive back till the first side hits the snap ring. Insert second snap ring.   Takes less time that writing it down in many cases.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:I doubt it will break. But that sucks that they melted it. If it were my car, I'd ask the shop to give me a written warranty on the shaft, and any associated costs, like towing, missed work, etc. Their reaction to the warranty request will be the best indicator of what they really think.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Originally Posted by sbchp355I'm sure you won't get a new one but a good used should be in order. No they shouldn't have had to get midevil on it that's why I said that I doubted that it was that stuck. Based on your location. A friend of mine whom I worked with at a dealership in VT moved to NC and said the shop fire wrench never got used and collected dust where here is a daily necessity. I don't believe that they are heat treated. The drive shaft yoke end are cast aluminum. Again I'm not a expert in the metallurgy but I thought cast hardness was more based on the alloy used. Also you wouldn't want to use a rose bud to heat the end of that drive shaft. A regular o/a setup with a 00 tip is better. Aluminum displaces heat so fast there is no need to heat a large area with a rose bud. Just have to keep the heat moving.
Reply:Gravel I saw the post and bought one ,it is one of those tools you don't use until you need it, then you don't know how you lived with out it  gxbxc.
Reply:Originally Posted by gxbxcGravel I saw the post and bought one ,it is one of those tools you don't use until you need it, then you don't know how you lived with out it  gxbxc.
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelAnd if you wait until you need it you might wind up melting the ear off.
Reply:I'm following this thread.  I had a dealer destroy a drive shaft changing a U-joint under warranty.  They swore there was nothing wrong with it for 3 years, and instead replaced tail shaft seal after tail shaft seal and slip yoke after slip yoke.  It wasn't until the warranty was up that I figured out what had happened and found the hammer marks on the drive shaft tube.  I put it on a balancer and the balancer was about to walk across the room at super low RPMs until we shut it down.  This was on a 07 Classic GMC CCLB 4x4 2500HD LBZ.  I bought it new and figured it was there problem while under warranty.  The days and weeks that I was without the truck made it my problem.  I changed tires, suspension components, cab mounts, added Sulastics, Bilstein shocks and on and on.  I could not make the vibration go away.  I took the dealer on their word, that was my mistake...  I'd find a reputable drive shaft shop.  A shop that builds and balances drives shafts in house and have them look at it.  They'd be qualified to evaluate the "repaired" shaft.  I know it doesn't feel good, but that just isn't right.  Good luck.
Reply:We do that stuff ALL THE TIME and whoever did this job is what we call a "Butcher"....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by irish fixitI've used most methods and after years of doing it prefer a smallish hammer (about 12oz-16oz). It's got the least chance of tearing anything up. I've had a LOT more damage done while using a press than any other method I've used. Just to easy to get to rough. As for the vise well I've seen a lot of broken vises doing it that way.   After doing it so much I've got a very detailed method worked out. The very first thing after getting the snap rings out is to take a die grinder and slightly enlarge the area outside the snap rings. Makes a HUGE difference in getting them out and putting them back in more than one way. I have two different work benches setup with a vise level with the top of the table. Lay the drive shaft on the table so that the cups can go down between the vise jaws. Use a punch at least 3/4" dia and go to town. Once out when putting them back together always make sure that the cross is inserted into the cup before hitting it. Drive the first cup through the first ear all the way or at least nearly so. Insert snap ring on that side. Turn over start second cup on sticking through cross (because it was drove through extra the cross will be sticking out or at least close enough that you can lift it slightly to allow it to be started) drive back till the first side hits the snap ring. Insert second snap ring.   Takes less time that writing it down in many cases.
Reply:I've done a lot of these with a regular old propane torch, they don't take that much heat to squirt the glue out and couple minutes with the hammer. Any yes I am in one of the rustiest places around, road salt from late October through April sometimes May.
Reply:Rust like this one?
Reply:About the shop that melted the drive shaft ears ,is there a dealer&repair license bureau .Make a complaint to them about unsafe repairs.     I have never seem any thing as ugly as that rusted drive shaft.gxbxc
Reply:Originally Posted by gxbxcAbout the shop that melted the drive shaft ears ,is there a dealer&repair license bureau .Make a complaint to them about unsafe repairs.     I have never seem any thing as ugly as that rusted drive shaft.gxbxc
Reply:Originally Posted by kingstonI'm following this thread.  I had a dealer destroy a drive shaft changing a U-joint under warranty.  They swore there was nothing wrong with it for 3 years, and instead replaced tail shaft seal after tail shaft seal and slip yoke after slip yoke.  It wasn't until the warranty was up that I figured out what had happened and found the hammer marks on the drive shaft tube.  I put it on a balancer and the balancer was about to walk across the room at super low RPMs until we shut it down.  This was on a 07 Classic GMC CCLB 4x4 2500HD LBZ.  I bought it new and figured it was there problem while under warranty.  The days and weeks that I was without the truck made it my problem.  I changed tires, suspension components, cab mounts, added Sulastics, Bilstein shocks and on and on.  I could not make the vibration go away.  I took the dealer on their word, that was my mistake...  I'd find a reputable drive shaft shop.  A shop that builds and balances drives shafts in house and have them look at it.  They'd be qualified to evaluate the "repaired" shaft.  I know it doesn't feel good, but that just isn't right.  Good luck.