Stainless sugaring

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After a couple google searches coming up blank I have a couple questionsSugaring would be considered a weld defect?Sugaring would flush from the line prior to commissioning. Here's the background. Double pipe (like a containment pipe) were the inside pipe is pressured oil to a turbine and the outside is a gravity return.  Guy welding it won't use a purge monitor and now when I put one on it he won't follow the below 2% max oxygen limits.  Says sugar will shoot and it won't bother the flush.  Bad attitude if you ask me. Personally I wouldn't lite up til under 1%Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThey call me ... youtube1979 SA 200 RED seal w/ wp26RealGear Mig 140Linde AC 250 Amp StickLincoln AC/DC 225 buzz box w/ #9 flex scratch start Smith precision tig flowmeter
Reply:battlelavaTake a chance - and turn-on the Argon [cover gas] inside and out.Prior to welding.Opus
Reply:I use to have 1 purge line but now have 2. Doesn't seem to help since the welder won't wait for the purge to be in acceptable limits.    Also this was 18" sch 10Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThey call me ... youtube1979 SA 200 RED seal w/ wp26RealGear Mig 140Linde AC 250 Amp StickLincoln AC/DC 225 buzz box w/ #9 flex scratch start Smith precision tig flowmeter
Reply:Battlelava,That photo you posted is bad; real bad.  I see lack of penetration and lack of fill in the photo you posted.  That's usually not acceptable, heat tint or no.  The link below is to a comparison chart from AWS D18.2.  This standard is the general guide for heat tint in stainless welds and what's acceptable.  It's intended for 300 series stainless tubing used in the food and pharmaceutical industries.  But it is often applied to stainless welding outside those industries.The welds in the chart are ranked from 1(perfect) to 10(terrible).  Most companies I've worked with won't accept anything worse than "4" on the chart.  The photo you showed is way, way past 4.  If you look more closely at D18.2, you'll find that the welds shown were made with known amounts of O2 contamination.  1 is 10 ppm, or 0.001%.  If I remember correctly level 4 is 100ppm, or 0.01% oxygen in the back purge.  But double-check this as I'm still in my first morning cup of coffee.I don't know the exact welding procedure you're following and what the requirements of the work are.  But that weld shown isn't well made; and likely won't have the corrosion resistance the designer/engineer/owner expect from the stainless steel that pipe is made of.  The lack of fill and lack of penetration mean that it likely won't have the strength that it should either.AWS D18.2 heat tint color chartBenson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Show the guy the door.
Reply:Boy howdy that's some extremely poor workmanship.   I don't know who's responsible for over seeing that job but it's pretty obvious they're in way over their head.
Reply:That weld needs to be cut out and redone. And no it does not flush out.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by zankShow the guy the door.
Reply:didn't even de-burr the ID of the pipe.  Even I do that when merely practicing! 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Turns out he tacked the inside pipe the same  no purge.  These outside shells are just suppose to be fused no requirements for 100% pen.   Shoulda seen what he did to some p11 root 1 1/2" wall steam pipe. He didn't stop when the remote failed and said the hp will suck back 1/4" mountains.  Needs to be doughed outSent from my iPhone using TapatalkThey call me ... youtube1979 SA 200 RED seal w/ wp26RealGear Mig 140Linde AC 250 Amp StickLincoln AC/DC 225 buzz box w/ #9 flex scratch start Smith precision tig flowmeter
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doBattlelava,That photo you posted is bad; real bad.  I see lack of penetration and lack of fill in the photo you posted.  That's usually not acceptable, heat tint or no.  The link below is to a comparison chart from AWS D18.2.  This standard is the general guide for heat tint in stainless welds and what's acceptable.  It's intended for 300 series stainless tubing used in the food and pharmaceutical industries.  But it is often applied to stainless welding outside those industries.The welds in the chart are ranked from 1(perfect) to 10(terrible).  Most companies I've worked with won't accept anything worse than "4" on the chart.  The photo you showed is way, way past 4.  If you look more closely at D18.2, you'll find that the welds shown were made with known amounts of O2 contamination.  1 is 10 ppm, or 0.001%.  If I remember correctly level 4 is 100ppm, or 0.01% oxygen in the back purge.  But double-check this as I'm still in my first morning cup of coffee.I don't know the exact welding procedure you're following and what the requirements of the work are.  But that weld shown isn't well made; and likely won't have the corrosion resistance the designer/engineer/owner expect from the stainless steel that pipe is made of.  The lack of fill and lack of penetration mean that it likely won't have the strength that it should either.AWS D18.2 heat tint color chart
Reply:Were way past a 10 with some of it. Even the outside is dull and gray. (#8 gas lens 30cfm)  moves to slow and cooks it.   Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThey call me ... youtube1979 SA 200 RED seal w/ wp26RealGear Mig 140Linde AC 250 Amp StickLincoln AC/DC 225 buzz box w/ #9 flex scratch start Smith precision tig flowmeter
Reply:The guy is a hack not a welder.sent while goofing off at workLong after the price is forgotten, the quality will remain.Both of my Poppy's 1954 Short Hoods -Third generation to weld with it and teaching a fourthSA 2## - Bought and sold more than I can remember or care to list, 8 in the shop right now
Reply:Yesterday wasn't Better.  0 purge.   I had to go do something and when I got back and it was at a perfect 20.4%   -.-Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThey call me ... youtube1979 SA 200 RED seal w/ wp26RealGear Mig 140Linde AC 250 Amp StickLincoln AC/DC 225 buzz box w/ #9 flex scratch start Smith precision tig flowmeter
Reply:Is he an employee or an outside contractor?
Reply:What a hack. Tell him they're considering replacing him by me and show him this picture, loluse a pipe purge dam and you don't have to wait very long to purge.Purged and untouched after welding, no cleaning or anything.Last edited by MikeGyver; 07-27-2014 at 09:57 PM.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Mike,That's some really pretty work.
Reply:Awesome inside!  Outside pictures please, if you have some.Jerry30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30"  vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverWhat a hack. Tell him they're considering replacing him by me and show him this picture, loluse a pipe purge dam and you don't have to wait very long to purge.Purged and untouched after welding, no cleaning or anything.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonThat weld needs to be cut out and redone. And no it does not flush out.
Reply:His root should never pass inspection. He doesn't have full  pen all the way around. And the sugaring, unacceptable.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Qc doesn't come by until it's all done.  It's a broken job.   The job lost most of its great welders when they tried to force them to weld a chrome joint that was slammed together in a rack let it sit there collecting water and corrosion and now has no way to clean the inside and everyone is refusing to weld it Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThey call me ... youtube1979 SA 200 RED seal w/ wp26RealGear Mig 140Linde AC 250 Amp StickLincoln AC/DC 225 buzz box w/ #9 flex scratch start Smith precision tig flowmeter
Reply:Um, what is sugaring?  I have never heard the term, but I am also sort of new to welding Aspiring Top-Notch WeldorLooking for work/experience in Eastern Massachussetts
Reply:Originally Posted by akatzUm, what is sugaring?  I have never heard the term, but I am also sort of new to welding
Reply:Hello akatz, in short, when stainless steel is allowed to be heated above a reactive temperature and the atmosphere is allowed to come into contact with it in this state, the material will turn shades of gray or black, or sometimes become puffy looking similar to miniaturized black cauliflower. This usually occurs on the backside of a weld seam or the root of an open-root weld. This sort of result is generally considered unacceptable for most stainless steel welds. It harbors bacteria in food grade welding, reduces corrosion resistance in other applications, and reduces strength in still others. Best regards, AllanaevaldOriginally Posted by storemanAwesome inside!  Outside pictures please, if you have some.Jerry