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I got a call today from I think the dumbest person on the planet but it gets even better, he's a welding teacher! About a year ago he called and wanted to get an XMT 350 and wire feeder package the same as they use at the Canada Skills competition for students. He wants his students to be able to participate and wanted the same machine. Didn't really have a clue what size wire he wanted, what size TIG torch or anything else. He said he had done some stick welding in the past but beyond that seemed pretty clueless. Skip ahead to today and he finally got the machine. He said it worked fine on stick but when he tried to MIG it wouldn't work. The wire feeder worked but there was no welding current. He had the manual right in front of him and couldn't figure it out. I started going through how it had to be hooked up and then he said there was an extra cable on the floor that looked like another ground cable and he couldn't figure out where it went. I said that's the cable that goes from the machine to the wire feeder. Then I explained there should be a bolt by the drive rolls to bolt the cable too and then he asks if it's marked. I said the bolt isn't doing anything otherwise. Here's a guy trying to teach students yet he doesn't know to read a manual, couldn't fathom why he had no welding current on MIG and then needs a label to explain what the bolt (doing nothing) is for by the drive rolls. I challenge anyone to find more of an idiot. It's like buying tires and not realizing you have to put air in them.
Reply:Sounds like a government employee to me! We have millions of them down here.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveI got a call today from I think the dumbest person on the planet but it gets even better, he's a welding teacher! About a year ago he called and wanted to get an XMT 350 and wire feeder package the same as they use at the Canada Skills competition for students. He wants his students to be able to participate and wanted the same machine. Didn't really have a clue what size wire he wanted, what size TIG torch or anything else. He said he had done some stick welding in the past but beyond that seemed pretty clueless. Skip ahead to today and he finally got the machine. He said it worked fine on stick but when he tried to MIG it wouldn't work. The wire feeder worked but there was no welding current. He had the manual right in front of him and couldn't figure it out. I started going through how it had to be hooked up and then he said there was an extra cable on the floor that looked like another ground cable and he couldn't figure out where it went. I said that's the cable that goes from the machine to the wire feeder. Then I explained there should be a bolt by the drive rolls to bolt the cable too and then he asks if it's marked. I said the bolt isn't doing anything otherwise. Here's a guy trying to teach students yet he doesn't know to read a manual, couldn't fathom why he had no welding current on MIG and then needs a label to explain what the bolt (doing nothing) is for by the drive rolls. I challenge anyone to find more of an idiot. It's like buying tires and not realizing you have to put air in them.
Reply:Just wait until the iPhone / ADD generation comes of age.
Reply:I've gotten those calls before.I had a "professional welder" scold me for selling him a 17 series torch that was missing the water line...Had another "professional" yell at me that I sold him a junk TIG torch only to find after listening to him bitch for ten minutes that he didn't have the power cable connected to the welder.Had another guy who acted very knowledgeable thru email call me in a panic that the wire feeder I sold him didn't work.He didn't have the positive lead connected to the drive either.Takes all kinds. Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:One of my friends is a high school shop teacher.I told him to teach them stick and flux core.He said nobody uses that stuff on the job.Took me years to convince him that stick and flux core are important.  He still doesn't teach it and has never come over to learn how.Now he teaches them an online welding course through a college where they learn on a computer....Over the years I've even had to show him how to set migs correctly and turn his check valves the right way on torch lines so they will flow.How hard is that?  There are arrows stamped right on the damn things!The stories are endless....Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveHe said nobody uses that stuff on the job.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPReally? Good to know! I can think of at least a couple hundred guys who didn’t know that either.
Reply:On this job, the first order of self shielded flux core wire was 3,500-pounds. I forgot what the total amount of wire was to weld everything together. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:An online welding class?  Mike ZanconatoZanconato Custom Cycles @mzank on Instagram
Reply:Originally Posted by PipelinerJust wait until the iPhone / ADD generation comes of age.
Reply:Originally Posted by zankAn online welding class?
Reply:Originally Posted by mla2ofusThey'll be so busy getting their feelings hurt and looking for a "Safe Space" they won't have time create problems!! That and tracking everything on social media!! Mike
Reply:Originally Posted by PipelinerMan you're going to get my blood pressure up and swatted for not being in the off topic forum. But eventually the power poles supporting the electrical grid will rott off at the ground and collapse. There will not be enough knowledgeable workers to rebuild it, and it will finally die (social media). That's my only hope.
Reply:It's just as bad when journeyman welders don't have a clue how their machines work or what they can do. I remember I guy that a Vantage 400 and an LN25 and had no clue what the CC/CV switch on the wire feeder was for. Probably a $70,000 welding truck with all the latest technology and has no idea how it works. I can see if you got a new programmable wire feeder or something at it took a while to figure it all out but why have a high end machine if you don't know how to use it?
Reply:I can understand that welder dave ! I have been trying to teach myself how to weld for close to 20 years and decided to finally give up.Now I am the proud owner of one of these.
Reply:I was talking to a high school career center welding instructor and inquired about what processes they teach. He said oxy/fuel, stick, MIG and some TIG. I asked if they teach short arc and spray transfer and he said mostly short arc and they "fake" spray
Reply:Originally Posted by zankAn online welding class?
Reply:Don't even get me started. I work in a weldng supply shop...the amount of DUMB is mindboggling at times.EVERYBODY is a "weldor". Best recent one...dude asks for some aluminum tig rod, I ask what kind..the reply is "Just the regular kind" (you'd be suprised how often I hear that)...I ask what size he needs.... "Just the normal size"..... I ask what he plans to weld with it, his reply..."just regular stuff, sheet metal and engine blocks and stuff"....sigh....Last edited by motochris; 12-09-2015 at 12:22 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by PipelinerMan you're going to get my blood pressure up and swatted for not being in the off topic forum. But eventually the power poles supporting the electrical grid will rott off at the ground and collapse. There will not be enough knowledgeable workers to rebuild it, and it will finally die (social media). That's my only hope.
Reply:Originally Posted by Robert HallI truly believe this is a case of doing far more harm than good. I pray that I never go to a surgeon that has learned the same way.
Reply:Originally Posted by motochrisDon't even get me started. I work in a weldng supply shop...the amount of DUMB is mindboggling at times.EVERYBODY is a "weldor". Best recent one...dude asks for some aluminum tig rod, I ask what kind..the reply is "Just the regular kind" (you'd be suprised how often I hear that)...I ask what size he needs.... "Just the normal size"..... I ask what he plans to weld with it, his reply..."just regular stuff, sheet metal and engine blocks and stuff"....sigh....
Reply:Seems incredibly dangerous. Now he's going to pass on his 'skills' to the next generation.
Reply:Some might say that you are overly-critical, welderdave.'contaminating tungstens like there's no tomorrow'
Reply:Motochris,I understand, I truly do. Everyone ought to have to work with the public for 2 years.I used to sell farm supplies, in the spring the gardeners would come to buy their seed. When I asked how much they needed, the answer was often "enough for 2 rows".  So I would ask, "how long are the rows", and you already know the answer - "right smart".I would just weigh up 5 pounds of whatever seed they asked for. And that is a LOT of turnip seed!!Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.comthat settles it.i want to be a welding instructor!i dont think it's all their fault though. schools are putting less and less into blue collar teaching. the shop i learned in has had the small engines section replaced by classroom, and with new scheduling the kids have enough time to put on coveralls and take them off. i imagine most instructors are only there as that was the only opening available. they are probly degreed in language arts but got stuck with a welding job and no budget to make it "real"bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:Originally Posted by wb4rtMotochris,I understand, I truly do. Everyone ought to have to work with the public for 2 years.I used to sell farm supplies, in the spring the gardeners would come to buy their seed. When I asked how much they needed, the answer was often "enough for 2 rows".  So I would ask, "how long are the rows", and you already know the answer - "right smart".I would just weigh up 5 pounds of whatever seed they asked for. And that is a LOT of turnip seed!!
Reply:You mean tires need air?Welder yep!I is a walder,no need for hands on,i learned it on the puter!God help us all!either you LIKE BACON or you're WRONG!!!! "There are three kinds of men.The ones that learn by readin'.The few who learn by observation.The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves"-Will Rogers
Reply:Originally Posted by castleSome might say that you are overly-critical, welderdave.
Reply:Originally Posted by zankAn online welding class?
Reply:Originally Posted by 12345678910Lincoln has welding video games too
Reply:There are some dedicated, skilled Industrial Arts teachers. Where I, then a generation later, my son went to high school IA was considered failure. Anyone with the inability to learn was sent to study IA. The board made up of bankers, lawyers, and doctors with maybe a stray stockbroker saw little value in working with one's hands. They offered little budget for IA courses. When I was there they had one IA teacher. He only knew about wood rasps, and sandpaper. He wanted students to nail two little pieces of board together, then sand, rasp, stain, and varnish candle sconces. They had some really nice Powermatic machines donated by some corporation when they upgraded. A few of us ignored the teacher, and did some advanced stuff. I still have a set of cabinet end tables I built. A donated engine machine shop sat there gathering dust. I'm told a former teacher used before his suicide.For both me, and 39 years later, my son. The school failed us in Industrial Arts education.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Hell Bill, they don't even offer it around here anymore. It's a damn shame. When I was in junior high in the mid 80s, we had a real nice shop and a very knowledgeable instructor. It was a lot of fun and I learned skills I use to this day.Damn shame it's of such little value to anyone anymore.Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:I went to a trade school for high school and all the shop teachers were experienced journeyman tradesman before they became teachers. The welding teacher specifically came to that school to take over from the original teacher who was retiring. The last job he worked on was the Syncrude Canada facility. He even said that some of the instructors at regular high schools didn't have enough skills to be teaching welding. Sadly this school was converted to a regular high school with a focus on IT. The school built truck campers in one shop and building construction would build garages. I think the biggest job a couple guys in my class worked on was a tandem axle horse trailer. The school even had a service station and gas pumps. They claimed there just wasn't enough interest in the trades and not enough enrolment. I think it was probably more a case of the gov't wanting to convert it to a standard high school and not promoting the trades to junior high students. There were a lot students that had trouble in a regular school but there were also a lot like myself that were more interested in working with their hands. The school had a good reputation and students would get offered jobs because they went to the school. It's sad they auctioned off all the equipment and got rid of the trades.
Reply:I can’t think of anything more disgusting than working where you would get your hands dirty! That’s why I worked as an interior decorator.  Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:You are wearing a Dambodian dress shirt, it looks clean. Where I come from bankers wear that sort of outfit.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:Carl, what on earth would you know about welding, being a hobbyist and all?  Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Carl, what on earth would you know about welding, being a hobbyist and all?
Reply:I figure you must live in a Holiday Inn Express at the rate you're learning Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:In  grade 8 I started taking shops class.  The wood shop tools that we we allowed to use consisted of 2 hand saws 1 hammer and 24 hand planes.  We proceeded to take rough lumber and square the stock with hand planes to start any of our projects.  The teacher told us that is how all construction is done.  Most of the class spent 85% of their shop time with a hand plane.  Their was table saws, routers, power planers, drill presses etc. in the shop but hey never got turned on.  I have helped build 4 garages a 48foot by 72foot machine shed and my own home and cannot think of one lesson from that shop class that I used.  Then I grade 10 I started a 3 year power mechanics course at a different school,  the instructors were all licensed tradesmen and hardly a week goes by that I don't use some of the skills that I was taught in that course.  Nothing annoys me more than when I hear people say " that kid should not go to a trade school he is smart enough for regular school"
Reply:Originally Posted by dmatt... I hear people say " that kid should not go to a trade school he is smart enough for regular school"
Reply:Originally Posted by dmattIn  grade 8 I started taking shops class.  The wood shop tools that we we allowed to use consisted of 2 hand saws 1 hammer and 24 hand planes.  We proceeded to take rough lumber and square the stock with hand planes to start any of our projects.  The teacher told us that is how all construction is done.  Most of the class spent 85% of their shop time with a hand plane.  Their was table saws, routers, power planers, drill presses etc. in the shop but hey never got turned on.  I have helped build 4 garages a 48foot by 72foot machine shed and my own home and cannot think of one lesson from that shop class that I used.  Then I grade 10 I started a 3 year power mechanics course at a different school,  the instructors were all licensed tradesmen and hardly a week goes by that I don't use some of the skills that I was taught in that course.  Nothing annoys me more than when I hear people say " that kid should not go to a trade school he is smart enough for regular school"
Reply:Teachers teach because they cant do.......Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:Originally Posted by roadkillbobbTeachers teach because they cant do.......
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveIf you're a teacher and can't read or have enough common sense to hook up a wire feeder with a manual right in front of you, you shouldn't be teaching. Wouldn't be surprised if half the students could teach the teacher. Not realizing you need a weld cable to the wire feeder and it's laying right in front of you takes the cake.
Reply:Originally Posted by bentThose who can, do.Those who can't do, teach.And those who can't teach, administrate.
Reply:I fear for the future of high quality tradesmen. I see it every day. The reason is twofold (probably more...)...As mentioned, there aren't as many high caliber instructors as there should be. Why not? Some welding programs just require that the students just get "introduced" to a few welding processes and not have to qualify in any of them. So, these instructors are sometimes "forced" into becoming welding instructors. They, and their students will just "dabble" in some basics.My company sent a bunch of our welding instructors, including myself, to Lincoln Electric in Cleveland for a week long seminar. Many of the other instructors there were from all different industries, like agriculture, upstart vo-tech schools, various fabrication companies, etc.Some of these instructors had their degrees in areas other than welding, but were being "forced" into having to start to teach welding. Some had never welded before! Others had tried it, but were not proficient at it. So, what kind of instruction can these types of instructors offer, with only a week long seminar under their belt?Personally, I had been welding for 40 years already when I was sent there. But...I still learned quite a bit! So...if someone like myself learned some new stuff, imagine what an information overload it was for some of the novices?!As far as new, upcoming, quality welders go...I see new students all the time. We trained over 300 of them this past year. Some of them really want to be good. Some of them could care less how good they are, as long as they end up with a job.And passion for the trade along with a good work ethic is something that you cannot teach someone. It has to be in their DNA. I have that trait. I've always wanted to be the best welder that I could. So, when I see these lazy loads come passing through our school, and are lucky enough to pass their bend tests then go on to get hired, it really depresses me.But we need bodies on the production floor.That leads me to another point, here...quite often, the acceptance of lackluster instructors and welders by the industry, is due to the desperate need for them, so we take what we can get.I'm gonna go have a beer, now....Rich
Reply:Originally Posted by dmatt Nothing annoys me more than when I hear people say " that kid should not go to a trade school he is smart enough for regular school"
Reply:Originally Posted by bentThose who can, do.Those who can't do, teach.9And those who can't teach, administrate.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder Dave It's like buying tires and not realizing you have to put air in them.