Brand Loyalty

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Are welders brand loyal?I was passing through a Community College on open house day and noticed all the MIG machines were Miller but all the Arc machines were Lincoln BIG BLUE  or BIG RED ? Guess, its like Pepsi or Coke.
Reply:i dont care what you put in front of me to use... i'll make it work.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Zap, I guess you like Dr Pepper.
Reply:...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:i look at it this way...welding machines basically do one thing... stick various alloys of metal together..its all in how you set it up..just like a lathe...they do one thing..spin and cut metal..there are hundreds of diffrent lathes out there..but they all do the same thinglearn one and you've learned them all....now go figure out the diffrence... ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I prefer Miller for customer service.  Plus they more readily respond to the needs of the market, like the Millermatic Passport.I buy Miller because I like consistency, too.  No need to mix up the machines on my truck even when they are equal in price and quality, as they are in most cases.I could easily and happily have a truck outfitted with all Lincoln equipment and get by ALMOST as good (I would miss the above-mentioned Passport...)And FYI, a MIG machine is ALSO an "arc welder."  We assume you meant a Stick machine.  Lincoln confuses people by calling their cheap Stick machines "Arc Welders" on the front label.
Reply:I don't worry about support since my big Lincoln is vintage and I'm close to SOL if it blows up. Fortunately, at the rate that I weld as a hobbyist, I seldom approach its 40% duty cycle or even close. I've yet to cause a circuit breaker to trip, either. I bought a MIG SP175 plus recently just because I already had one Lincoln. As to brands, the majors are all excellent. Just pick a color and go with it!I wouldn't argue with Mac about anything due to his wealth of knowledge. Obviously, it's correct to say that both Stick and MIG are "Arc" processes...so is a TIG welding setup for that matter. That said, I tend to think of an "arc welder" as a stick welder and a MIG welder as a "wire welder". Just usage of the terms in the areas where I picked up my welding knowledge, I guess. My 2 centsLast edited by gnm109; 07-29-2006 at 09:38 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109I wouldn't argue with Mac about anything due to his wealth of knowledge. That said, I tend to think of an "arc welder" as a stick welder and a MIG welder as a "wire welder". Just usage of the terms, I guess.
Reply:I'm brand loyal, but probably not exclusively. Lincoln let me down hard 20 plus years ago. Miller picked up the slack and has taken very good care of me since. Will I buy another Linc? No. If it was given to me, that is another story. Esab and Thermal have peaked my interest as of late. As to whether or not I would actually buy a yellow or purple machine, time will tell. For now, my "fleet" is all blue.
Reply:Originally Posted by DDA52I'm brand loyal, but probably not exclusively. Lincoln let me down hard 20 plus years ago. Miller picked up the slack and has taken very good care of me since. Will I buy another Linc? No. If it was given to me, that is another story. Esab and Thermal have peaked my interest as of late. As to whether or not I would actually buy a yellow or purple machine, time will tell. For now, my "fleet" is all blue.
Reply:"Off" is apparently my favorite brand.  My cereal is labled "CEREAL" and my soup is "SOUP."  For welders, my brand is "USED."  I have a millers, hobarts, and powcons, but they could just as easily be big used welders, small used welders and used wire feeders.I could have included lincolns in that until just recently...a friend talked me out of my old ac225.  That's the only welder I bought new and I never regretted it.I have been eyeballing the htp's and the thermal arcs also...Things I like in a welder are durability, reliability and simplicity.  I like a welder to be durable enought to be handled roughly, reliable enough not to need constant attention and simple enought that I can fix it if something does go wrong.  That last part is becoming tougher to find.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Well if you ask me I would prefer Lincoln if we could go bacvk to the days of the SA 200 that actually burned good.   If I could get one of them I would probably be real happy.  Problem is, unless you are a pipe jockey you probably wont notice the differnce between the old and the new ones and much of what Miller puts out in the area of competition.  The differnce in weight really makes a differnce on the pickup you drive.  With a miller you might be able to swing a 3/4 ton or 1 ton.   1 Ton should be no problem.   I know many guys with outstanding Millers with 1 tons and they haul all they need.   The millers do the same job for these folks that an SA 200 would do.  Exactly the same thing, if not less because the SA 200 has only two 115V aux outlets.   The Millers put out a lot more aux power.   The other thing is the Millers offer much better product service.   I wouldnt buy a lincoln, unless it was a brand new old type SA 200.  Built to the exact same specs, continental engine the works.   And even then, for real its hard to justify it unless you are pipe jockey.   A trailblazer will come close enough you wont know the differnce, or atleast it wont affect you.   The price of gas for both the truck and the machine will.  Another consideration is an SA 200 wont fit sideways in a pickup bed.  To run sideways take a custom built bed.   Running length wise in my opinion looses a lot of space.    As far as brand loyalty, its like Ford or Dodge or Chevy or even honda or toyota.   Some folks buy from whomever cuts them the best deal.  Others based on looks.   Or it is fuel economy.   While others, its strictly brand loyalty.  Some will say, well Chevy like a rock.   Others will say if ya cant ram it, dodge it.   Others say, whatever they say about ford.   My grandad buys ford.   He says he knows how to work on them having owned them for so long.   My sister likes Honda because it makes good mileage and tends to get good reviews by various consumer reporting agencies.  I am biased toward Dodge and the Cummins.   I like the Cummins, and my Pop and Mom's Pop worked for Chrysler Corp and get employee pricing.   Kinda blows during these employee pricing days, but there is still some deal and so its not a total loss.   But ultimately, part of your decision has to remain if buying new in the customer service.   If you are a hobbiest, it may not be as important.  But if you use it often, and it sees hard service and you depend onit, you better bet your britches you need that warranty and serviceability you get from a good manufac.    Anyway, just my thoughtsIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Locally, the high school welding labs have Lincoln ac225/acdc225 stick welders, Millermatic 251 migs,  and Miller plasma cutters.  Tigs aren't available in all the schools the ones I have seen were Miller. The choices are purely economic.They have grinders, chop saws, and cold saws of various brands depending on the best deal available. The welding instructors I have taken classes from or talked with feel they get the best support for their activities from Lincoln.  The Lincoln reps were the only ones willing to come out and talk to students in the Continuing Education welding courses held in the evening for adults.  I enjoyed the visits by the Lincoln Reps to the classes I took and felt they made a real contribution as they had much more experience at Tig welding than most of the instructors.When it came time to buy I got a Millermatic 175.  It was the best deal from a reputable local welding supply house.  I could have gone with Lincoln but it would have cost me another $100.
Reply:I like DDa52 took a screwing on a Lincoln machine in the late 70's and everything has been blue since. I think Miller's service is second to none. Last year while working on a large stainless job we had 3 Millers (302G, bad board) go down, I called the rep. and they overnighted us 3 machines to tide us over until they repaired the ones that went down. Every manufactor has machines that go bad, it is what they do to correct the problem that makes a differance to me. I can put the root in a bad fit (high/low) better with a pipe pro/ trailblaser/ pro300 using the arc control than I ever could using sa200/250 but thats me and not everyone will agree.
Reply:I have no loyalties.  I have or have had Miller, Lincoln, Hobart (pre ITW), Pow-Con, Thermal Arc, Thermal Dynamics.  If it will weld or cut . . .Regarding Miller's great customer service . . .  I have bought four new miller engine drives over the years, each one had problems of some sort during warranty, even one just past warranty, Miller always took care of it.  I bought two used Lincoln Commander 500's a couple years ago, five years old, aside of the factory rep informing me of a factory update (not repair) that they paid for, I have had no contact nor needed any contact or factory support from lincoln, simply because they haven't broke down!!What's better??
Reply:Originally Posted by TxRedneckWell if you ask me I would prefer Lincoln if we could go bacvk to the days of the SA 200 that actually burned good.
Reply:Are they then back to the quality they used to be?IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Originally Posted by FinneyI like DDa52 took a screwing on a Lincoln machine in the late 70's and everything has been blue since. I think Miller's service is second to none. Last year while working on a large stainless job we had 3 Millers (302G, bad board) go down, I called the rep. and they overnighted us 3 machines to tide us over until they repaired the ones that went down. Every manufactor has machines that go bad, it is what they do to correct the problem that makes a differance to me. I can put the root in a bad fit (high/low) better with a pipe pro/ trailblaser/ pro300 using the arc control than I ever could using sa200/250 but thats me and not everyone will agree.
Reply:I wouldn't say that I have any brand loyalty, but I do have brand affinity.  I like Miller wire-fed products for various reasons such as availability in the used market, quality, and availability of information.  I like Lincoln consumables, Hypertherm plasma cutters, and PowCon power supplies because these things have all worked well for me relative to other things that I've tried.  I generally buy most things used and my selection criteria is based on quality and value.  When it comes to replacing stuff, I'll usually start with what I know works well.  However, I wouldn't automatically assume that a Miller engine-drive is going to be better than a Lincoln engine-drive based on my experience with Miller wire feeders.With the advent of the Internet, I think that the type of brand loyalty that was common in years past is going to become much less important.  It's really easy to do some research and determine what people like and what people don't.  With tires for example, I generally go to Tire Rack's website and start out by looking at the most popular tire for a given make and model of car.  That takes about three minutes and will usually result in a tire that works optimally for a given vehicle's function.  Manufacturers generally go through cycles and their products can be either good or bad relative to their competitors at any given moment.One doesn't see many T/A products at the welding supply, but I'd wager that they're doing well because of the high regard the TA185 has gotten on the Internet.  Like Smithboy, I've been eyeing that one or the HTP, but probably I'll end up with the HTP because I've read (on the Internet) that it has a better low end (down to 3 amps).-Heath
Reply:I've got blue and red, they both do the job. The job I'm on ATM has both colours  in engine driven, the red ones have had a bad run (not many hours on the clock) but the service has been great, including loan machines.  So long as down time is kept to a minimum that's all that matter's, I think.StephenI'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:gnm109,   yes I do hold grudges, I know that is wrong but that is just me. The company bought 9 new 302G Trailblaser's for that job. They were the first of that series out of the factory and all of them had a board problem. Like I said they sent use 3 and came to the job and changed out all the boards without any time lost. I like the Trailblaser due to it being multifunction,AC/DC stick & tig, plus running wire feeders.
Reply:It's not so much holding a grudge as you've just never been burned by the people you chose to replace the first ones who did burn you.  No need to go back, whether they've changed or not.Last edited by MAC702; 08-01-2006 at 11:52 AM.
Reply:That is the way I see it as well. Why go back when your every need is being handled? If it ain't broke..........
Reply:Originally Posted by TxRedneckAre they then back to the quality they used to be?
Reply:My opinion is based on personal experience. Married in 1977, bought a house. I was welding on utility lines. I passed mainline test and scraped up enough money and bought a new SA200 and a 1973 1ton Chevy truck in the spring of 1978. By lunch time fine adjustment wide open on the next to highest heat range. By dark highest heat range and fine adjustment wide open. Within 3 weeks by 3 in the afternoon it was so cold you could not weld. Cost me a job. Dealer told me it was out of warrenty, warrenty started at the date of manufactor. Called Lincoln, no help. I had to go back to welding on utility lines for about 1/3 of the money I was making on the main line. In a couple of years I finialy saved enough and traded the SA to a Big20 Miller and went back on the main line. After about 7,000hrs and 2 engine rebuilds I sold it to a fab shop where it is still running. That is what my opinion is based on.Originally Posted by FinneyMy opinion is based on personal experience. Married in 1977, bought a house. I was welding on utility lines. I passed mainline test and scraped up enough money and bought a new SA200 and a 1973 1ton Chevy truck in the spring of 1978. By lunch time fine adjustment wide open on the next to highest heat range. By dark highest heat range and fine adjustment wide open. Within 3 weeks by 3 in the afternoon it was so cold you could not weld. Cost me a job. Dealer told me it was out of warrenty, warrenty started at the date of manufactor. Called Lincoln, no help. I had to go back to welding on utility lines for about 1/3 of the money I was making on the main line. In a couple of years I finialy saved enough and traded the SA to a Big20 Miller and went back on the main line. After about 7,000hrs and 2 engine rebuilds I sold it to a fab shop where it is still running. That is what my opinion is based on.
Reply:Originally Posted by halbrittThat is the perfect definition of anecdotal experience.
Reply:Irrelavant? Since when? It is exactly on topic. It says why he is brand loyal to Miller and not Linc. The thread is not about Pipeliner's arc and such, it about if and why people are brand loyal. That is what the vast majority of the posts are about. You guys went off on a tangent and you are calling his post irrelavant because it was on topic.....
Reply:Originally Posted by DDA52Irrelavant? Since when? It is exactly on topic. It says why he is brand loyal to Miller and not Linc. The thread is not about Pipeliner's arc and such, it about if and why people are brand loyal. That is what the vast majority of the posts are about. You guys went off on a tangent and you are calling his post irrelavant because it was on topic.....
Reply:Nope, I didn't miss it. I just don't think five posts interspersed among 28 are enough to warrant the original topic as irrelavent. That is less than 20% even. Still doesn't sound like a shift to me.  Given that Finney was responding to a question he wasn't asked, that is how his answer qualifies as irrelevant to JTMcC. However, his answer is still relevant to the topic of the thread, which is about brand loyalty.That is what I was saying or trying to.It's often surprising how emotionally invested some people get in a topic, particularly when it comes to engine-drive welders.Yup and it is usually the red ones that start foaming at the mouth first.
Reply:I know this is a very old post ,but given the problems with my Miller Bobcat, thought I'd add my 2cents. In the last 30+ years I used to be very loyal, all I ever had was blue and red, now I'm down to red and for the money, might look at something made offshore, (uggg, thought I'd never being saying that!!). I know to compete, manufactures have to cut corners, but at the cost of customers service and quality?
Reply:HTP FTW.  But I do own a new Millermatic211 that is awesome. And I do buy Lincoln SMAW rods.   1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:I am very brand loyal.What ever brand I am using at the time.www.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:any time you buy a welding machine that stops working after warranty is expired you tend to have bad feelings for any brand that does that. many old welding machines are working 30 or even 50 years later..i had a Miller inverter go on my 2 times, second time warranty was expired. maybe they were still getting the bugs out of a new design. still kind of sucks being a guinea pig buying welding equipment that should have been tested more thoroughly. so do miller welders in general work good ? yes. will i buy another miller ? sure after i buy every other welding machine manufacturers brands and they all fail on me i will give miller another try. might be a few 1000 years for that to happen.kind of makes you think why is warranty not for at least 10 or 20 years?? after all doesnt manufacturer have faith their product will last longer than 3 years and guarantee it longer than 3 years. seems to me it proves they have faith it will only last 3 years. which means they do not have much faith in their own machinesLast edited by WNY_TomB; 12-23-2015 at 01:51 PM.
Reply:[QUOTE=WNY_TomB;6665421]any time you buy a welding machine that stops working after warranty is expired you tend to have bad feelings for any brand that does that. many old welding machines are working 30 or even 50 years later..i had a Miller inverter go on my 2 times, second time warranty was expired. maybe they were still getting the bugs out of a new design. still kind of sucks being a guinea pig buying welding equipment that should have been tested more thoroughly. so do miller welders in general work good ? yes. will i buy another miller ? sure after i buy every other welding machine manufacturers brands and they all fail on me i will give miller another try. might be a few 1000 years for that to happen.kind of makes you think why is warranty not for at least 10 or 20 years?? after all doesnt manufacturer have faith their product will last longer than 3 years and guarantee it longer than 3 years. seems to me it proves they have faith it will only last 3 years. which means they do not have much faith in their own machines[/QUOTETIf the warranty was up on this one I'd understand, but it is still under warranty.
Reply:[QUOTE=BrianC;6665491] Originally Posted by WNY_TomBany time you buy a welding machine that stops working after warranty is expired you tend to have bad feelings for any brand that does that. many old welding machines are working 30 or even 50 years later..i had a Miller inverter go on my 2 times, second time warranty was expired. maybe they were still getting the bugs out of a new design. still kind of sucks being a guinea pig buying welding equipment that should have been tested more thoroughly. so do miller welders in general work good ? yes. will i buy another miller ? sure after i buy every other welding machine manufacturers brands and they all fail on me i will give miller another try. might be a few 1000 years for that to happen.kind of makes you think why is warranty not for at least 10 or 20 years?? after all doesnt manufacturer have faith their product will last longer than 3 years and guarantee it longer than 3 years. seems to me it proves they have faith it will only last 3 years. which means they do not have much faith in their own machines[/QUOTETIf the warranty was up on this one I'd understand, but it is still under warranty.
Reply:I prefer Lincoln MIGs and Miller for everything else. I will say that Miller's customer service is superior. That being said, I just bought a new Millermatic 350p for my school and will more than likely be adding some 252s and Dynasty 210s here in the near future.  That means that my school's lab will have 3 Lincoln C300s (which are PHENOMENAL machines, just pricey). The rest of our equipment is blue and that is absolutely okay with me!   Miller machines are generally less costly than the Lincolns through our supplier.In my personal inventory I have a Lincoln 256 and SP-135, a Miller Maxstar 150STL, and a Miller Spectrum 625 Extreme plasma. All are excellent machines and suit me just fine.Last edited by sr556m9; 12-23-2015 at 05:59 PM.
Reply:2 of my machines are almost twice as old as i am, i dont care what it is. they all do the same thing. every machine ive used at work has been reliable as can be, mine dont get abused like that but they have never given me issues either. i make whatever i have work.Miller ab/p 330Hobart champ 16Miller 140Lincoln Power Mig 255Lincoln SA-250
Reply:Pretty much blue for me, altho I have yellow , red and purple. Mainly so I can appreciate the blue ones more
Reply:Old brass Victor and Harris O/A gear, Lincoln red MIG, Chinese blue TIG/Stick, Miller blue plasma... If it works, why worry about it?
Reply:Loyal to blue as you all know,own 5-Blue machines.Have only 1 Hypertherm plasma,And 2 Ingersoll Rand air power,Lincoln Consumables.All been fine to me 20yrs so staying loyal to them
Reply:The welding lab at our local community college recently struck a deal with Lincoln to switch everything in the lab from blue to red.  All of the Miller equipment was sold at auction for pennies on the dollar.  I never heard the details of the change over just that Lincoln made them an offer they could not refuse.  In this case brand loyalty came down to $$$ not what the machines would do.  On a side note I was able to pick up four XMT 403s for an average of $600 each and a very clean Lincoln Ideal arc ac/dc for $75.  Bought all with the intention to re sell and put the money back in to my welding hobby.  Sorry all gone now.  I wish I had bought more.Dan D.Manipulator Of Metal
Reply:I've used them all. I can set up any brand machine to make a nice weld. That's the key. I'm not brand loyal, I like anything that works well and is dependable.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by DanD78The welding lab at our local community college recently struck a deal with Lincoln to switch everything in the lab from blue to red.  All of the Miller equipment was sold at auction for pennies on the dollar.  I never heard the details of the change over just that Lincoln made them an offer they could not refuse.  In this case brand loyalty came down to $$$ not what the machines would do.  On a side note I was able to pick up four XMT 403s for an average of $600 each and a very clean Lincoln Ideal arc ac/dc for $75.  Bought all with the intention to re sell and put the money back in to my welding hobby.  Sorry all gone now.  I wish I had bought more.Dan D.
Reply:Gray, Red or Blue, whichever I can get a deal on. But I don't think I would be too afraid of trying a Yellow, at a great price. Plasma, Hypertherm."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Of the big ticket tig machines I think Miller is the least reliable. However they are also the brand I make the most money with.It all comes down to service. Miller wins hands down. So does Hypertherm for that matter.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Brand loyalty?FORD...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterBrand loyalty?FORD...zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterBrand loyalty?FORD...zap!
Reply:Brand doesn't matter to me. As long and it works and works well I will rock it.I have never been a big brand type of guy. Owned a few and they worked well but not well enough to justify 3x the price.The thing could be pink and purple with glitter and sparkles and made on the moon for all I care.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer