¿SA-200 Engine Swap¿¿¿

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Has anyone ever done one of these? Maybe a diesel or small 4 cylinder OHV gas motor?Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:i think hybriweld sells kits to put a 4 cyl diesel eng into a sa 200   www.hybriweld.com
Reply:Originally Posted by joethemechanicHas anyone ever done one of these? Maybe a diesel or small 4 cylinder OHV gas motor?
Reply:Are you thinking of the OM-616 or OM-617?Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:A YanMar engine swap is the easiest. It's not so much the flywheel, as long as it fits under the lincoln generator housing. the holes for the rotor flange mounting still have to be drilled and tapped into the flywheel anyways. It's more of the way the generator has to attach to the new engine case. they all have to be drilled and tapped for fitup. It's alot more fun than it looks.
Reply:Originally Posted by joethemechanicAre you thinking of the OM-616 or OM-617?
Reply:Originally Posted by CruizerA YanMar engine swap is the easiest.
Reply:I think with the way the price of fuel is going, I better plan to put a Lister CS in itOr maybe a steam engine so I can power it on old broken palletsEven better yet maybe a waterwheel or a windmill.Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:If you are going to try for the 'standard parts' route, probably the best choice would be the 3.152 Perkins or TMD20 or TMD27 Continental since these engines will allow you to use the existing flywheels and engine backing plates as well as standard starters. Keep in mind the rpm's of the SA200 is 1550 which is quite slow for most small diesels. weldersales
Reply:Perkins maybe if I got one out of a forklift or something cheap. Continental TMD engines I don't think I would use. I have rebuilt a few of them over the years and parts are very pricey and availability is really poor. I think the last one I did was in 2005 for a case skid steer. It spun a rod bearing and had a score in one cylinder. If I had done it all the way it would have been cheaper to buy another skid steer. I had the crank welded and cut, bored one cylinder, put in one new piston and rod, all new rings, and bearings and still the parts alone ran over $1000 as far as I remember. I told the guy to start looking for another machine. He is still running it.The Mercedes has one big advantage. It has a bosch inline injection pump. they are a very tough unit.Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:YanMars are what $3500, kitted up and ready to install from Hybrid welders are something like $5500. That way everything is ballanced and ready for fitment. Your not going to fit a Mecedes engine into a SA 200 frame for starters, and your still going to have to fabricate some sort of bellhousing for the generator to attach to. Warranties on Yanmars are 3 years. Honestly I've never seen one fail, and they are major fuel mizers. You've got to really push them hard all day to burn off even a couple gallons of diesel
Reply:YanMars...   kitted up and ready to install... something like $5500. ...Your not going to fit a Mecedes engine into a SA 200 frame for starters...
Reply:7 grand for a sa 200 diesel isnt bad vs the continental. you should save roughly 80 dollars a week in fuel with the diesel=pays for itself in a few years and is less maintenance
Reply:Originally Posted by j-rod7 grand for a sa 200 diesel isnt bad vs the continental. you should save roughly 80 dollars a week in fuel with the diesel=pays for itself in a few years and is less maintenance
Reply:[QUOTE=denrep;172139]True, that's a good point, but the operator who can save 80 per week in fuel, probably shouldn't even be thinking about working with swaps or old used machines and engines.YES but you try tellin a die hard sa 200 user to give up his red face and just buy a new 200D.
Reply:Lets see, I can import direct out of Japan, or a buddy in China, these engines would cost around $2800 landed There is no duty on this stuff, just shipping & tax. I'm my own broker as well. A SA200 generator costs me $1400 on a full rebuild. Just figuring out the bellhousing adaptor. So with a bit of engineering and time, I could probalbly build it and make pretty good profit, while still providing a 3 year warrranty.
Reply:I have to get a look at the back end of one of those OM-616 engines.  From what I remember most of the ones I have seen in 240Ds were standard trans.Where is the starter mounted on that OM-616?I was thinking that it would be nice to use a plate just like the standard F163 plate but something more like the earlier one with a low mounted starter.Now this is just a thought, and a before my coffee thought, but what if you turned the engine around and drove off of the front of the crank, and just modified the brush holders in the generator for reverse rotation. The brushes do hit the commutator on a slant don't they? Now I forget and I just had mine opened up to check the brushes about a month ago. I'm really getting senile.I better go make some coffeeJoewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:OK, after some coffee and checking todays oil prices, this is a preliminary drawing of what I came up with.Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:Originally Posted by joethemechanicOK, after some coffee and checking todays oil prices, this is a preliminary drawing of what I came up with.
Reply:What does an F163 pot out at 1500 RPM? anybody know?I think they were rated 34HP but that was up a bit higher.Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:Originally Posted by joethemechanicWhat does an F163 pot out at 1500 RPM? anybody know?I think they were rated 34HP but that was up a bit higher.
Reply:Originally Posted by CruizerNot really so much the HP, I'd be concerned with, more of the torque at 1500 rpm under say a 300 amp load. The 200d puts out around 325 amps loaded.
Reply:OK how about this. We cut a grove in the rear tire and run a belt over to the SA-200. Take the engine out all together, and add a front bearing and sheave  to the front of the generator Notice the air intake for very dusty environments. That will be an extra cost option.Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:NEMA standards state that a welding machine capable of 200/300/400 amps must do the following28 volts dc @ 200 amps dc32 volts dc @ 300 amps dc36 volts dc @ 400 amps dcLast edited by Cruizer; 03-13-2008 at 11:57 AM.
Reply:9.6 KW or 12-13 HP. A  good rule of thumb on small generators it to provide 2 HP for each KW of power you want to produce. 20 to 25 Hp @ 1500 is probably about right.Here is something else I just read,The famous 'Mercedes' OM-616 engine made under licence has been further developed with Force Motors's own R & D and with assistance from M/CS. Ricardo of UK & M/s. AVL of Austria, to create a large and modern facility of IDI, Direct injection, turbo / intercooled and Tractor Engines.http://www.forcemotors.com/html/powerpack.aspxJoewww.CummingsHauling.comHas anyone ever done one of these? Maybe a diesel or small 4 cylinder OHV gas motor?Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:i think hybriweld sells kits to put a 4 cyl diesel eng into a sa 200   www.hybriweld.com
Reply:Originally Posted by joethemechanicHas anyone ever done one of these? Maybe a diesel or small 4 cylinder OHV gas motor?
Reply:Are you thinking of the OM-616 or OM-617?Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:A YanMar engine swap is the easiest. It's not so much the flywheel, as long as it fits under the lincoln generator housing. the holes for the rotor flange mounting still have to be drilled and tapped into the flywheel anyways. It's more of the way the generator has to attach to the new engine case. they all have to be drilled and tapped for fitup. It's alot more fun than it looks.
Reply:Originally Posted by joethemechanicAre you thinking of the OM-616 or OM-617?
Reply:Originally Posted by CruizerA YanMar engine swap is the easiest.
Reply:I think with the way the price of fuel is going, I better plan to put a Lister CS in itOr maybe a steam engine so I can power it on old broken palletsEven better yet maybe a waterwheel or a windmill.Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:If you are going to try for the 'standard parts' route, probably the best choice would be the 3.152 Perkins or TMD20 or TMD27 Continental since these engines will allow you to use the existing flywheels and engine backing plates as well as standard starters. Keep in mind the rpm's of the SA200 is 1550 which is quite slow for most small diesels. weldersales
Reply:Perkins maybe if I got one out of a forklift or something cheap. Continental TMD engines I don't think I would use. I have rebuilt a few of them over the years and parts are very pricey and availability is really poor. I think the last one I did was in 2005 for a case skid steer. It spun a rod bearing and had a score in one cylinder. If I had done it all the way it would have been cheaper to buy another skid steer. I had the crank welded and cut, bored one cylinder, put in one new piston and rod, all new rings, and bearings and still the parts alone ran over $1000 as far as I remember. I told the guy to start looking for another machine. He is still running it.The Mercedes has one big advantage. It has a bosch inline injection pump. they are a very tough unit.Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:YanMars are what $3500, kitted up and ready to install from Hybrid welders are something like $5500. That way everything is ballanced and ready for fitment. Your not going to fit a Mecedes engine into a SA 200 frame for starters, and your still going to have to fabricate some sort of bellhousing for the generator to attach to. Warranties on Yanmars are 3 years. Honestly I've never seen one fail, and they are major fuel mizers. You've got to really push them hard all day to burn off even a couple gallons of diesel
Reply:YanMars...   kitted up and ready to install... something like $5500. ...Your not going to fit a Mecedes engine into a SA 200 frame for starters...
Reply:7 grand for a sa 200 diesel isnt bad vs the continental. you should save roughly 80 dollars a week in fuel with the diesel=pays for itself in a few years and is less maintenance
Reply:Originally Posted by j-rod7 grand for a sa 200 diesel isnt bad vs the continental. you should save roughly 80 dollars a week in fuel with the diesel=pays for itself in a few years and is less maintenance
Reply:[QUOTE=denrep;172139]True, that's a good point, but the operator who can save 80 per week in fuel, probably shouldn't even be thinking about working with swaps or old used machines and engines.YES but you try tellin a die hard sa 200 user to give up his red face and just buy a new 200D.
Reply:Lets see, I can import direct out of Japan, or a buddy in China, these engines would cost around $2800 landed There is no duty on this stuff, just shipping & tax. I'm my own broker as well. A SA200 generator costs me $1400 on a full rebuild. Just figuring out the bellhousing adaptor. So with a bit of engineering and time, I could probalbly build it and make pretty good profit, while still providing a 3 year warrranty.
Reply:I have to get a look at the back end of one of those OM-616 engines.  From what I remember most of the ones I have seen in 240Ds were standard trans.Where is the starter mounted on that OM-616?I was thinking that it would be nice to use a plate just like the standard F163 plate but something more like the earlier one with a low mounted starter.Now this is just a thought, and a before my coffee thought, but what if you turned the engine around and drove off of the front of the crank, and just modified the brush holders in the generator for reverse rotation. The brushes do hit the commutator on a slant don't they? Now I forget and I just had mine opened up to check the brushes about a month ago. I'm really getting senile.I better go make some coffeeJoewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:OK, after some coffee and checking todays oil prices, this is a preliminary drawing of what I came up with.Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:Originally Posted by joethemechanicOK, after some coffee and checking todays oil prices, this is a preliminary drawing of what I came up with.
Reply:What does an F163 pot out at 1500 RPM? anybody know?I think they were rated 34HP but that was up a bit higher.Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:Originally Posted by joethemechanicWhat does an F163 pot out at 1500 RPM? anybody know?I think they were rated 34HP but that was up a bit higher.
Reply:Originally Posted by CruizerNot really so much the HP, I'd be concerned with, more of the torque at 1500 rpm under say a 300 amp load. The 200d puts out around 325 amps loaded.
Reply:OK how about this. We cut a grove in the rear tire and run a belt over to the SA-200. Take the engine out all together, and add a front bearing and sheave  to the front of the generator Notice the air intake for very dusty environments. That will be an extra cost option.Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:NEMA standards state that a welding machine capable of 200/300/400 amps must do the following28 volts dc @ 200 amps dc32 volts dc @ 300 amps dc36 volts dc @ 400 amps dcLast edited by Cruizer; 03-13-2008 at 11:57 AM.
Reply:9.6 KW or 12-13 HP. A  good rule of thumb on small generators it to provide 2 HP for each KW of power you want to produce. 20 to 25 Hp @ 1500 is probably about right.Here is something else I just read,The famous 'Mercedes' OM-616 engine made under licence has been further developed with Force Motors's own R & D and with assistance from M/CS. Ricardo of UK & M/s. AVL of Austria, to create a large and modern facility of IDI, Direct injection, turbo / intercooled and Tractor Engines.http://www.forcemotors.com/html/powerpack.aspxJoewww.CummingsHauling.com