More road bore pics

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Thought I'd start a new thread, instead of keeping posting this stuff to the Lincoln board.  SA200 is still working great, homemade remote is working good, and making this MUCH more enjoyable... Got some new shoes for the truck, but other than that everything pretty much the same... Rolled over 20,000 miles on the truck yesterday (bought January 24th, 45 miles on it when I drove off the lot...)Still waiting on ROW issues to be settled on next real job... Supposed to be a go next week.  These two 60' 12" bores came up, literally just about 3 miles from the house... It's for a new 8" waterline that we normally would have bid on, but were tied up on the last pipeline when it bid.  Trying to get away from water and sewer, focusing on pipeline anyway.-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:I did get some new 12" lineup clamps... Made it much easier.  I would say I should fire the operator that dug this pit..  I prefer to not have to stand on my head, or be jammed up against the track.  BUT, if I fired myself, I don't know who would do it...lol.  Seriously, we had working space issues is why I dug the pit so small.  In fact, we had to take a 10' section off the track for this one, and run 10' pieces of casing instead of 20'.  This is .375" wall 12" pipe.  I'm running 1/8" 5P+ for the bead, hotpass and cap with 5/32" HYP.-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:Nice work. I hate this type of lineup clamp.We mostly TIG root here even on pipelines and this type of clamp gets in the way too much.
Reply:Thanks for keeping this going Randy.Are you using 3 different rods, or just different sizes?And when you gonna start on your flatbedLincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:htp; great pics. that remote is home made? looks good to me. love the 110 outlets on the back. must come in very handy.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Originally Posted by taz00Nice work. I hate this type of lineup clamp.We mostly TIG root here even on pipelines and this type of clamp gets in the way too much.
Reply:Originally Posted by dubl_tThanks for keeping this going Randy.Are you using 3 different rods, or just different sizes?And when you gonna start on your flatbed
Reply:Originally Posted by docwelderhtp; great pics. that remote is home made? looks good to me. love the 110 outlets on the back. must come in very handy.
Reply:When I say sometimes it just me, I mean literally.  I've done road bores like this, all by myself before.  It's NOT fun.  And it will wear you out.  A lot of the time even when I have help, it's not someone you really want setting pipe in with the hoe, so I'll run the hoe until we get the pipe in the clamps, then get in the hole to weld it.  My partner and one other guy that's worked for us for years i'm comfortable with running the hoe.  otherwise, I do it myself...-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:your helper must really appreciate that remote. i would hate to climb in and out of that hole all day.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Wow, I really can't imagine doing pipeline work by yourself.Yeah these clamps suck for TIG. The following pic is from a welder's qualification. Clamp stays on and cannot be moved or rotated until at least 50% of the root is completed, not an easy task.IMG_4339 by Taz00, on FlickrThat said the way we weld pipelines here is way over-engineered, when welding manually it is almost always TIG root and low hydrogen electrodes fill and cap.Cellulosic electrodes are not so popular in Europe and some companies have developed low hydrogen basic electrodes that can be used for downhill root pass.Last edited by taz00; 11-08-2014 at 05:04 PM.
Reply:Got to ask how long does it take in Europe to runs say 1 mile of 12 inch if it's all uphill with lohydrogen electrodes. And what is the preferred pipeline welding machine. Interesting to me. Just like to know how different parts of the works do it.Last edited by specopswelder; 11-08-2014 at 06:00 PM.
Reply:Welding a 24" 10mm pipe usually takes 2-3 hours for a pair of welders. I have seen guys that do it in less but it is not the norm. I qualified recently this guy on a 10" 8,8mm pipe in the 6G position, it took him a little more than one hour.I can't make an estimate on how long it takes to lay down a mile since it depends too much on terrain and the equipment of each contractor. Welding by Taz00, on FlickrAs far as prefered pipeline welding machine, at least in Greece there is none in particular. Most companies use inverters that run off diesel generators.If I had to pick a few brands I would say Kemppi, Lincoln and some Rilon (cheap-ish Chinese welding machines with a very good record). The only welder generators I have seen used in the pipeline recently are some Triodyn. In the refineries you also see Genset and a few SAE 400 but these are scarce, most have moved on to inverters due to their small size and portability.Last edited by taz00; 11-08-2014 at 06:08 PM.
Reply:I must clarify that all this is for natural gas pipelines (80 bar design pressure), 100% xray and a second repair leads to a cut-out of the joint according to the applicable standard.
Reply:The road bore looks like a lot of work to do solo. Just finished stringing out and welding 34 joints of 12 inch today for a road bore. Luckily it isn't a solo job. Have to many people. That 200 looks good in that dodge. taz00 do you do hot cuts and hot tie in welds over your way. I mean with gas to purge if the valve leaks? I ask just because I could see that getting a little warm tigging or putting the root in with lohi. A typical 24 inch weld with two guys over here on .375 wall pipe is about 45 min weld depending on the pair.We were averaging about 15 min to fit and weld that 12.
Reply:Originally Posted by specopswelderThe road bore looks like a lot of work to do solo. Just finished stringing out and welding 34 joints of 12 inch today for a road bore. Luckily it isn't a solo job. Have to many people. That 200 looks good in that dodge. taz00 do you do hot cuts and hot tie in welds over your way. I mean with gas to purge if the valve leaks? I ask just because I could see that getting a little warm tigging or putting the root in with lohi. A typical 24 inch weld with two guys over here on .375 wall pipe is about 45 min weld depending on the pair.We were averaging about 15 min to fit and weld that 12.
Reply:Originally Posted by taz00Wow, I really can't imagine doing pipeline work by yourself.Yeah these clamps suck for TIG. The following pic is from a welder's qualification. Clamp stays on and cannot be moved or rotated until at least 50% of the root is completed, not an easy task.IMG_4339 by Taz00, on FlickrThat said the way we weld pipelines here is way over-engineered, when welding manually it is almost always TIG root and low hydrogen electrodes fill and cap.Cellulosic electrodes are not so popular in Europe and some companies have developed low hydrogen basic electrodes that can be used for downhill root pass.
Reply:Grades are anything from API 5L X52 to X70, most of the main pipeline is X65. Up to 24in it is HFI welded and over that HSAW.TIG and low hydrogen electrodes are also used for hot cuts and hot tie ins.For hot tapping and plugging the circumferential fillet weld is made using low hydrogen electrodes uphill and the longitudinal butt weld can be either tig root and low hydrogen electrodes fill and cap or low hydrogen electrodes all the way if using backing strip.I am aware of the huge differences it takes to weld TIG +xx18 vs XX10 downhill.I understand that in the US pipeline welders work as subcontractors using their own vehicles, welding machines etc and they sort of specialize in that field.Here welders work as employees and pipeline welding does not pay well compared to petrochemical and power plants.A welder might work on the pipeline until a better opportunity comes along.There are excellent and very fast welders here but most of them are limited to TIG and SMAW for pressure welding. MIG/MAG is almost exclusively used in steel structures and ship building.The only welders that can produce decent welds with cellulosic electrodes are some old timers nearing retirement, a few foreign welders that decided to stay and live here after a project and some guys that work on water pipelines (most of the latter cannot produce weld that comply with natural gas pipeline standards).
Reply:Crazy how different parts of the world do the same job but use such a different means to achieve the same end result. Have tones of guys crying over here if mainline pay was cut and you could not use your own rig. Very cool thanks for the info.
Reply:We had a largish pipeline run under a state highway near here.  Turned out to be interestingI don't know what happened, but a short time after they bored under the road, it started to collapse in the lanes on the North side.  They first dumped a lot of asphalt into the hole.  But it still kept sinking.  Then they tore up the asphalt, and poured a coupla trucks worth of concrete down the hole, then asphalted over it again.It's held up fairly well, but there's still a dip there.Somebody had a bad day"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Farmersamm, someone may have had the auger head out to far from the end of the pipe. A lot of spoils come through the pipe and out the boring machine. Experience teaches what to look for. Got to feel the machine and know what it is doing. There are special sections of auger to add or subtract to keep the auger head in the correct position. Know the type of soil, helps. The state highway department is not doing their job as there should have been a permit and a responsible party.They also could have directional drilled it, and washed it out with too much water.  I kind of got out of road bores for several years.  Too many people that didn't have a clue saw dollar signs, leased or bought boring rigs, and dropped the bottom out of the prices.  Some of them had experience from working for contractors doing bores.  Some of them didn't have any idea of what they were doing...  CAT220 is right about you need to know how to position your head for soil conditions.  Especially in loose/sandy type soil.  stick the head out in front of the casing in sand and you can create a huge cavity under the road.-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:It was epic I'm tellin ya.  EpicRoadbeds are mostly fill dirt, and I'd guess the stuff was soft, or not adequately compacted when the road was built"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Oklahoma is pretty well known for not having any kind of suitable base under the roads.  I don't know why.  We certainly pay enough tax dollars for quality work to be done.-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion