Advice for a Miller 110v on Craigslist

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Here is the ad:https://baltimore.craigslist.org/tls/4644318714.htmlIts a Miller 130XP MIG. Guy is asking $350 and says he added a new torch for 150. Looks kind of old. I'm sure it's at least 10-15 years old. But folks keep telling me to stay away from shiny new import welders...I was originally looking at an Everlast MIG for the same price that's an IGBT.However to get the full potential it needs a 30amp time delay breaker WTF? Are all 115v machines spec to hit the top end on 30amp or is that just a Chinese import issue?
Reply:The 130 is an older unit.  They replaced it with the 135 now 140.  115VAC is going to be limited no matter what brand you buy.  Even on a 30A breaker, which I would recommend, it still is only going to be good for 1/8" steel.  The labels all say 3/16 or more with fc, but in the real world, it is not enough heat and the duty cycle at those limits is ridiculously low.I would think 250 is max for the welder.  It doesnt matter if he just put on a new mig gun, because it would be worth 100 or less without a working gun.  It doesn't seem to come with a regulator or flow meter so that will be additional to run gas.Multimatic 200Ellis 1800Haberle S225 9" cold sawMM 300;  Spoolmate 30A w/ WC-24TB 302GDynasty 280 DX Tigrunner
Reply:It should run fine on a 20 amp circuit. That is what it was made to run on.
Reply:Check with MILLER for parts. This same question was on the MILLER site a while ago. It had a response that parts are not available any more.
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1Check with MILLER for parts. This same question was on the MILLER site a while ago. It had a response that parts are not available any more.
Reply:Really nice arc. That model replaced the standard MM-130.(nice improvement over the 130) It heavy, built decent but takes a smaller Miller pin. Might be hard to find a gun, although it's got a new gun on it. Miller put the OXO/Hobart style gun on some of those, and it sure was nice to use. Better gun then anything out now. (IMO)$350.00 is way too much for the shape of it.. These were right at $500.00 brand new/perfect..Last edited by Brand X; 10-06-2014 at 08:36 PM.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:Thanks folks! Thought it was a bit high on price. Performance definitely low. I've been checking on CL for months and nothing good comes along in my price range anyway. People ask way to much IMO. Would a DC TIG stick in the 140-160 amp range allow for thicker steel than 1/8?
Reply:Don't buy it!A Hobart handler 140 is way better and can be found cheaper.And a 115 mig is only good to 1/8" in the real world.Hacks sometimes think otherwise.A 140amps of DC stick welding will weld anything 3/16"and thicker steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopDon't buy it!A Hobart handler 140 is way better and can be found cheaper.And a 115 mig is only good to 1/8" in the real world.Hacks sometimes think otherwise.A 140amps of DC stick welding will weld anything 3/16"and thicker steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XIt's not way better, just newer..  The Thermal-arc 141i on 120 volt is good for 3/16 mig..(Probably best with self shielded .030 wire) Tig is 140 amps too. Great little unit with a hot arc that wets out very nice. I use a 12 ft Binzel gun, and it welds sweet. I like the fact it's great on power input, and runs on CO2 great.. love the 5 pound co2 bottle I carry with it.
Reply:Originally Posted by SeawalkerAre all 115v machines spec to hit the top end on 30amp or is that just a Chinese import issue?
Reply:Price all wrong on that.  $150-200 tops.  Hey, a guy by me has a 110V Miller sidekick on CL for $999.   Won't budge on the price.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by SeawalkerWould a DC TIG stick in the 140-160 amp range allow for thicker steel than 1/8?
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopAnd a 115 mig is only good to 1/8" in the real world.
Reply:Lincoln 135 with cart for $300. in Clarksburg:http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/m...688161260.htmlThermal Arc 95S stick/TIG kit for $250. in Hanover, PA:  http://york.craigslist.org/tls/4701433200.html"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI can think of a welding forum you best not make that statement! Guys there think you can build a bridge with 115-volt Mig machines.
Reply:The American obsession with 120 volt welders is a total mystery to me. We stopped trying to use 120 volts for ranges, clothes dryers, and water heaters about 100 years ago. With one welder, a 120 V, you spend the rest of your life with a machine almost big enough to be useful. I did meet a guy with a Lincoln MIG 120 who loves it. Of course beside it is a Lincoln 255 MIG for most of the work. I say if you don't need a welder, go for it. If you do need a welder get a good one, and have it connected to 240 volts.
Reply:Handler 140 refurbished currently in stock by hobart. I've bought refurbished from then, would never know it wasnt a new machine and comes with full warranty.http://www.hobartweldshop.com/servle...welders/Detail Originally Posted by Willie BThe American obsession with 120 volt welders is a total mystery to me. We stopped trying to use 120 volts for ranges, clothes dryers, and water heaters about 100 years ago. With one welder, a 120 V, you spend the rest of your life with a machine almost big enough to be useful. I did meet a guy with a Lincoln MIG 120 who loves it. Of course beside it is a Lincoln 255 MIG for most of the work. I say if you don't need a welder, go for it. If you do need a welder get a good one, and have it connected to 240 volts.
Reply:[QUOTE=AKweldshop;4772651]Yes,You can weld 3/16", but its asking a lot of the machine.....opinions are very rarely the truth.Right, but when you have owned Miller passports.120/240 volts/141i, and both miller machines,  used most of the 135/140 machines, it's a bit more then a uneducated guess. Not sure how many bridges are made of 3/16. but probably not too many..The 141i, and Miller passport machine really have a great duty-cycle for the small wire they run. Fan kicks on, and off with out any issues on just about anything you can weld on 120 volts. Never throw a breaker either. Inverters take it to another level on all fronts..Last edited by Brand X; 10-07-2014 at 10:47 AM.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauYou better beleive it's possible. We have a member on here that builds rail road bridges with his 110v MIG, using it as the only welding source. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...dge-for-the-RRThis is just one example of his work, he has posted several of them.
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauYou better beleive it's possible. We have a member on here that builds rail road bridges with his 110v MIG, using it as the only welding source. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...dge-for-the-RRThis is just one example of his work, he has posted several of them.
Reply:[QUOTE=Brand X;4773651] Originally Posted by AKweldshopYes,You can weld 3/16", but its asking a lot of the machine.....opinions are very rarely the truth.Right, but when you have owned Miller passports.120/240 volts/141i, and both miller machines,  used most of the 135/140 machines, it's a bit more then a uneducated guess. Not sure how many bridges are made of 3/16. but probably not too many..The 141i, and Miller passport machine really have a great duty-cycle for the small wire they run. Fan kicks on, and off with out any issues on just about anything you can weld on 120 volts. Never throw a breaker either. Inverters take it to another level on all fronts..
Reply:Oldendum, thanks for those links. Tough choice on the two for me.I would be building a trailer and hitch with the Thermal Arc 90 amp TIG ... I kid I kid! 90 amps is a little low, like to be able to TIG up to 1/8. V * A = watts. I just never thought do do the math. 30 amp breaker, I was under the impression that was a no no for 115v. But, I plan to build a circuit just for a welder. So 115 or 220 makes no difference. I would put in a dedicated 115v 30 amp .  Just the price of welder and what I'd be doing are the factors.
Reply:Another quick question....TIG vs MIG on steel only. From what I think I know:Thinner gauge than MIGMore precision, like if I making a hand tool??? Stronger welds than MIGCan weld stainless with same gas, where as with MIG I would need tri mix.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPWell, I stand corrected again. But in my defense, I was thinking more on the lines of these types of bridges.Oh, and no spatter, which I like, might get away with welding in my basement
Reply:Originally Posted by SeawalkerAnother quick question....TIG vs MIG on steel only. From what I think I know:Thinner gauge than MIGMore precision, like if I making a hand tool??? Stronger welds than MIGCan weld stainless with same gas, where as with MIG I would need tri mix.
Reply:DSW, thanks for all the help. I have a welding text book, but obviously its  no substitute for an instructor such as yourself.So, you are saying it takes special equipment and experience to MIG weld 20 gauge and below? Or do you mean TIG? If I remember correctly, the chart on most 110v MIGs have settings down to 22 gauge steel. For TIG, 18 gauge and below is going to require much more skill than MIG, and special equipment meaning foot pedal?  I'm looking forward to practicing TIG, especially since all the mechanics in my family MIG and no nothing about TIG  but if its going to take a year to weld 18 gauge steel or something I'm not so sure... Sorry for all the questions. As soon as I decide on a machine that meets my needs for the time being , I find out another caveat holding me back.
Reply:Originally Posted by SeawalkerDSW, thanks for all the help. I have a welding text book, but obviously its  no substitute for an instructor such as yourself.So, you are saying it takes special equipment and experience to MIG weld 20 gauge and below? Or do you mean TIG? If I remember correctly, the chart on most 110v MIGs have settings down to 22 gauge steel. For TIG, 18 gauge and below is going to require much more skill than MIG, and special equipment meaning foot pedal?  I'm looking forward to practicing TIG, especially since all the mechanics in my family MIG and no nothing about TIG  but if its going to take a year to weld 18 gauge steel or something I'm not so sure... Sorry for all the questions. As soon as I decide on a machine that meets my needs for the time being , I find out another caveat holding me back.
Reply:In one of your other threads you mentioned that you could run 240v. This is where you should start. 120v Migs can do their job but are limited as mentioned in this thread.If you can get the 240v situated then you'll be ahead of the game and can purchase a Mig welder with some balls.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by SeawalkerOldendum, thanks for those links. Tough choice on the two for me.I would be building a trailer and hitch with the Thermal Arc 90 amp TIG ... I kid I kid! 90 amps is a little low, like to be able to TIG up to 1/8. V * A = watts. I just never thought do do the math. 30 amp breaker, I was under the impression that was a no no for 115v. But, I plan to build a circuit just for a welder. So 115 or 220 makes no difference. I would put in a dedicated 115v 30 amp .  Just the price of welder and what I'd be doing are the factors.
Reply:A man who wants to own one tool and no others needs a knife. A man willing to own two tools should add a hammer. At three, add a Crescent Wrench. As this essay compounds we come to a stick welder, or a skilled man I.E. Zap has no need for stick, MIG, or a Crescent Wrench. TIG requires skill, but it can do it all, with the possible exception of tight places where the torch won't fit. Lacking the skill of Zap, or the Professor from Gilligan's Island, I need to fall back on a big tool box. Except for an engine welder where there is no power, I would not have needed a stick welder in years. Processes that enable me to send out bills to customers usually involve MIG. TIG is more challenging, therefore, fun. Thus far no one has paid me to weld anything I needed TIG for.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Amps don't care what voltage they sleep with. 10,20,30,50,100amp breakers for 120v exist.  Above 30amps- not common but they do exist.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Amps don't care what voltage they sleep with. 10,20,30,50,100amp breakers for 120v exist.  Above 30amps- not common but they do exist.
Reply:Originally Posted by asmActually, it does.  30A with on 120v lose more energy over the same length of wire when comparing to 30A with 240v.
Reply:I deal with 100amp 120v products every day.100amp 120v rated cords, connectors, circuit breakers.The OP mentioned he thought 30amps on 120v is a "no no"Just simply stating that 30amp 120v is common. Above that you don't see it because of what ya mentioned.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BThe reason utility power lines are run long distances cross country at high voltage is that lower voltage / same power means very large wires. It isn't impossible to build a 120 volt welder with great output. For a 120 volt welder that does the job for example of my Dynasty 280 you would need a 100 amp circuit. The gimmick of 120 volt welders is to plug them into household outlets. Even a heavy duty 20 amp 120 volt outlet is capable of delivering 2,400 watts. Typical welder outlets supply 12,000 watts. In every case, the UL listing on 120 volt welders is contingent on the instructions being followed. Those instructions call for a dedicated circuit. When Scooter goes down to Harbor Freight and buys a 120 volt MIG, and 100' of cord, he limits himself to even less output than the wimpy thing is designed for.I can think of no advantage in cost of installing a 20 amp 120 volt GFCI protected outlet over a 20 amp 240 volt non GFCI outlet.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Yes, see post 30
Reply:The Victorian era battle between Edison and Westinghouse / Tesla included Edison's claim that AC was dangerous. AC is dangerous, as is DC. The odds of being seriously injured or killed with electrocution when exposed to 240 is greater than 120. I'm guessing this is the reason for 100 amp 120 volt cords in your industry?In the late 19th century, Edison used 90 volts, Westinghouse used very high voltages then transformed down to 120. I doubt Edison's claims were valid at 120. Even Edison's system killed a lineman in NY city, he lay dead for an extended period supported by the multitude of overhead power lines until Edison figured out how to turn them all off so the body could be retrieved.
Reply:What I mean is there is no 30 amp rated 110v household recptical. Only 20 amp. I know there is 30 amp RV and Marine 110v 3 prong . Even though Its a dedicated circuit is it still OK to use a 20 amp receptical for a 110v welder? If so, is that because it has its own overload protection? I mean, my house is certainly not to code and I'm not worried about it as long as a 20 amp receptical is not going to be a problem with resistance or too much heat ...
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1In one of your other threads you mentioned that you could run 240v. This is where you should start. 120v Migs can do their job but are limited as mentioned in this thread.If you can get the 240v situated then you'll be ahead of the game and can purchase a Mig welder with some balls.
Reply:If you get a commonly available 120v mig, 12 gauge sheet metal will be the top limit of what you can do.  1/8 would be pushing it.  See the thread below.  http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...w-does-it-lookIf you must, I would skip porta band and pick up a used oxy setup on CL for cutting.
Reply:Here is a thread about 20 amp vs 30 amp circuits. http://weldingweb.com/archive/index.php/t-280331.htmlConclusion seems to be 20 amp  not 30. Ugghh I'm still curious how MIGs can reach 140 amps on 110v... I'm going to assume its voltage going up (CV) vs (CC). What do u guys think?
Reply:Ugghh I'm still curious how MIGs can reach 140 amps on 110v... I'm going to assume its voltage going up (CV) vs (CC). What do u guys think?
Reply:Originally Posted by asmThat's hard to do with a inverter type of welder.   It's all in the math...140A x 21v = 2940 watt2940 watt / 120 v = 24.5ASo assuming no lose conversion, 24.5A would be required from the 120v side.  In real life, its probably around 28A.  Here is one 120v mig that will do 135A on 120v.  But do pay attention about the duty cycle.  It's only 35%.  http://www.everlastgenerators.com/pr...wer-i-mig-140e
Reply:Volts don't melt metal. Watts melt metal. An electric heater is 100% efficient. The watts it allows to pass through are converted to heat. each watt per hour generates 3.4 BTU of heat. A BTU is the amount of heat energy needed to raise the temperature of one pound of water from 70 degrees Fahrenheit to 71. A 120 volt welder in a 20 amp receptacle at 100% efficiency can generate enough heat in an hour to produce 8160 BTU. A proper welder outlet; 40,800. A circuit feeding a Dialarc 81,600 BTU. The principle is simple: it takes a lot of heat to melt steel, and an awful lot to melt aluminum.
Reply:@seawalker.  breaker doesn't trip the moment you reach the rated amperage.  With common household breaker, there will be time delay.  If you only go over by 5A, say 25A on a 20A, it will take some time before it would trip.  Now, if you go over by large margin, say 100A on a 20A, it would probably trip right away.  Since many of the 120v welders are only rated 30% or less at 140A, it is likely that 20A circuit would work just fine.  As for the Everlast I have posted, keep in mind that those inexpensive may not spend as much money on R&D (if any), I would not be surprise that their spec. may be little off.   Duty cycle may be on the optimistic side, while the circuit requirement on the input may be on a generous side.  If you are buying this for hobby, I would over think it and go with inexpensive import.  Everlast give you 5 years warranty any way.  Now, if this is how you make your living, you better pony up and get one of the major three welder brands.  .
Reply:Asm, that makes sense. I didn't know the delay lasted that long for 5amp over draw.I don't like the aspect of the import, doesn't seem like there's good quality control and a pain to get parts . but it would see low use, its light, and I plan on getting cylinders for my torch too
Reply:All these companies play the numbers games trying to make their machine sound better on paper. That's why often you'll see in the fine print they are run off 30 amp circuits. That removes the limitations of "standard" household outlets. Also when you hit max output, most machines, duty cycle would be listed in seconds, not minutes. Most machines are rated at 90 amps 20%. Take them to 140 amps and it's easy to understand why you can get by for a very brief period and not trip a breaker.Also one thing to remember is many of these small machines use capacitors to help "extend" the time you can weld. The caps act like batteries and give the system a small boost of power for a brief period before the caps are depleted and power drops of noticeably ( at least to someone who knows what to look for).  On max power, those caps don't last long at all before being drained. After that extra "boost" is gone, power output drops down to only what the line voltage can supply and that's usually less than max output..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Most circuit breakers have two mechanisms to sense overload. Magnetic sensing uses an electro magnetic/ trigger. Heater/bimetallic triggers are slower to respond. A very quick breaker would be a nuisance starting motors as the inrush current is high. They are built for time delay. As an example a Miller Diversion 180, a $2000. welder has a published duty cycle at full output of 12% That means at full output you are good for 72 seconds. Of course you cant get full output at 120 volts!I believe the sales pitches used to sell 120 volt welders borders on fraud. It is a rare consumer who will be happy with a 120 volt welder. Broccoli makes the point you can build a 120 volt machine with a higher amperage circuit. I've only seen the 120 volt units built to appeal to uninformed consumers who believe they can plug in to their bed room outlet and weld. This won't work, and is hazardous to try. At LEAST, you need a dedicated circuit installed for the purpose by a competent electrician before you can begin to be disappointed in the performance of your new Harbor freight battery charger labeled as a welder.