SA 200 exciter problems

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I checked all the brushes in my welder and everything looked fine, still welds smooth as butter. But after that I took my grinder and plugged it in and when I pulled the trigger it made a god awful noise in the cone end. I took the nose cone off and watched it as I pulled the trigger on the grinder and it through sparks out and was arcing bad onto the exciter armature! I checked the brushes and theyre seated fine but its never done this before. Is my grinder too big, or is my exciter about to short out on me??  Im hoping someone has seen this before because its scaring the hell outta me. Maybe I'll just never use my 115 plug  I think a rewound exciter armature will run me about $450 so I hope it aint that. I'd like to hear some opinions My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Originally Posted by bigblueI checked all the brushes in my welder and everything looked fine, still welds smooth as butter. But after that I took my grinder and plugged it in and when I pulled the trigger it made a god awful noise in the cone end. I took the nose cone off and watched it as I pulled the trigger on the grinder and it through sparks out and was arcing bad onto the exciter armature! I checked the brushes and theyre seated fine but its never done this before. Is my grinder too big, or is my exciter about to short out on me??  Im hoping someone has seen this before because its scaring the hell outta me. Maybe I'll just never use my 115 plug  I think a rewound exciter armature will run me about $450 so I hope it aint that. I'd like to hear some opinions
Reply:The grinder im using is a big ingersol rand DC grinder. It says its a 12 amp 110-125 volt grinder. I'll check out the brushes more closely next time im at the shop. How many amps should the welder be able to put out from the 115 outlet?My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Originally Posted by bigblueThe grinder im using is a big ingersol rand DC grinder. It says its a 12 amp 110-125 volt grinder. I'll check out the brushes more closely next time im at the shop. How many amps should the welder be able to put out from the 115 outlet?
Reply:Originally Posted by Rhyno..............  The exciter current goes through your Rheostat and then to your coils, through the selector and out the welding leads..............
Reply:15A limit on the auxiliary outlet bigblue.Also check the tension on the exciter brush springs.  If the spring tension is weak the brushes will spark more and seeing as you're pushing it at 12A (more on start up as Rhyno points out) that could be the cause.  If needed, put a little more twist in the spring(s).MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Here is a pic of the small "spark line."  If you look closely, the exciter brushes haven't seated, yet.  I try not to use a Comm stone, but instead I use 1 Part vinegar and 2 parts water.  After they are seated, I rinse with 100% water.  The other is a pic of the bearing and the different "factory Lincoln" coils. Attached ImagesLast edited by Rhyno; 03-08-2010 at 12:14 AM.07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....
Reply:Post a pic of your grinder.  I am curious, because I thought IR was an air tool manufacturer.-Rhyno07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....
Reply:I figured that I'd post this follow up to the pictures above.Here is another pic of the exciter brushes, fully seated.  The other pic shows the appropriate sparks coming off of the back side of the brush.-Rhyno Attached Images07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....
Reply:Originally Posted by RhynoI figured that I'd post this follow up to the pictures above.Here is another pic of the exciter brushes, fully seated.  The other pic shows the appropriate sparks coming off of the back side of the brush.-Rhyno
Reply:I got around to the shop today and took the nose cone off again and started the welder up. I could see the brushes on the exciter armature bouncing a little and the generator end of the welder is shaking a good bit. Since I got the thing going its always shook a good bit but I didnt think anything of it. I checked the brush holders and they hold the brushes pretty tight and the brushes are sitting in the middle of the contacts of the exciter armature.  IF the bearing is going out would the main brushes be bouncing and arcing just like the exciter brushes? The armature bearing is original to the machine meaning its around 53 years old! I grabbed the end of the armature shaft and couldnt feel any slop in it though?My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Checked the machine and it seems as though the bearing is good? The shaft has a movement of around .009 and doesnt really sound as though its going out. Wouldnt it sound god awful if it was? When we plugged a flood light into it there was a few small sparkles on one brush but I just need to seat it better with fine sand paper. I guess my grinder may be at the end of its brushes and is pulling more power than its rated at or maybe its just too big a honking grinder?My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Originally Posted by bigblueIm curious, how do you use vinegar and water to seat the brushes? Ive always used a fine piece of sand paper against the contour of the armature and let the brush set against it as I pulled the sandpaper back and forth until it seated. I'll get some pics of the grinder as soon as I can, Ive been stuck at home with the flu for about a week now Feeling better today though.
Reply:Originally Posted by bigblue........................ I could see the brushes on the exciter armature bouncing a little and the generator end of the welder is shaking a good bit. ...............
Reply:The output available on the older shorthoods is only 1000 watts at 115 volts D.C. so 8.7 amps. Not sure when it was increased.
Reply:Thanks for all the help rhyno. I built the machine myself and I bolted up the generator to the engine just as I was instructed. I made sure all the bolts were put in tight and that the armature was locked into the "dogs" on the backside of the flywheel. Could it be because the engine is a 77 and the generator is a 57? maybe they balanced the flywheel for using with that generator. Im using the engine and flywheel off the 77 with the 57 generator. It doesnt shake violently it just has some vibration like a large tractor engine running. Maybe the whole shaking thing is me just being paranoid.My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Originally Posted by bigblueThanks for all the help rhyno. I built the machine myself and I bolted up the generator to the engine just as I was instructed. I made sure all the bolts were put in tight and that the armature was locked into the "dogs" on the backside of the flywheel. Could it be because the engine is a 77 and the generator is a 57? maybe they balanced the flywheel for using with that generator. Im using the engine and flywheel off the 77 with the 57 generator. It doesnt shake violently it just has some vibration like a large tractor engine running. Maybe the whole shaking thing is me just being paranoid.
Reply:I correctly disassembled and reassembled the generator to the engine. I got the instructions from AWS from Bills welder repair. Im not one of those guys who takes the short cut and cuts fins out of the generator. Im just glad the generator didnt have fins cut out already signaling that some idiot had beat me to it.  My engine is getting smoother as I run it more it hoovers at idle but occasionally has a pop and the cap taps the exhaust pipe. I always thought these old flatheads would occasionally do that? It runs real smooth except for that.My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:I know this thread is old but I finally got some time off work and tinkered with the sa 200 again. I removed the nose cone and found that the exciter armature was loose enough on the shaft to turn by hand! I tightened the nut snug and bent down the sheet metal washer to hold it and voila no more sparks with a grinder and no more noise.  I guess any noise I heard was the armature moving around a little and when any load was put on the thing it would stick and let the armature spin causing it to spark violently.My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Good to hear!-Rhyno07 Fowler 200D65 RedFace04 Miller TB 302, 22hpMiller 12RCMiller HF 251-1Lincoln SP135HyperTherm PM 380and a few others... Originally Posted by RhynoBut, if I "all of a sudden disappear....  ...." hopefully I didn't suffer too much....