Overhead:

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Any shortcuts or tricks to overhead welding with stick? What rod is favored? I need to replace the coupler and neck on a trailer and part of the welding is overhead, part vertical, and part horizontal. I've never welded overhead with stick. The trailer was severely overloaded and the neck fatigued to the point of digging into the street. It's now on stands ready to be cut off.I have mig in the shop but the trailer is broken several miles from the owner's place so needs to be repaired with a portable machine.Thanks,SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Welding over head is the same as welding flat. You just have to get over the fear factor! Guess what you're going to get burned, get over that right now. If you can, keep your elbows tucked into your rib cage.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:what he said /\, and i would say to use 7018 3/32 or 1/8 depending on thickness of what your working on, and before you actually make the weld get as comfortable as possible and make a few dry runs and once you start try to keep a short arc as possible so you dont get a big pile of slag right in your face
Reply:The signature and vague question don't match. Repairing a cheap trailer that was junk to start with is a waste of time. Considering how the trailer was damaged in the first place I would not touch it if it was only for farm use.6011 if it was steel.
Reply:The one tip I can add (to treating it like flat welding) is push that rod up there.It will feel like you are pushing because when welding flat you are letting gravity do the work of dropping your hand.If you don't concentrate on it, you'll long-arc and get porosity and worm tracks.Set up at the bench and burn as many rods as you need for it to become natural - it will be harder stuffed up under the trailer.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Ear plugs.
Reply:Super tight arc and like said it's the same as flat. With alot more burns tho. Easy burns, like bacon kisses in a pan. Open that arc up and like you got lava dropped on you and your machine went buckwild smocking crack! That about sums it up. I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Originally Posted by mikecwikThe signature and vague question don't match. Repairing a cheap trailer that was junk to start with is a waste of time. Considering how the trailer was damaged in the first place I would not touch it if it was only for farm use.6011 if it was steel.
Reply:When welding over head. Welding left to right, or right to left, makes no difference to me. If I have a choice, I'd much rather weld going away from me. Instead of moving towards me. Welding away from me I can see with no problem the amount / size of the weld I'm getting. When welding towards me I have to look through the rod to see the size of the weld. Is that about as clear as mud?Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:If your not confident, don't do it. I'd use 7018 on a trailer and nothing but. Set up some practice pieces. Wear a full leather welding jacket.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I was just going to say like Snoe maybe you should find a way to mig it.I don't know if I find other the same as flat. You can get away with a lot flat that is pointed out elsewhere.
Reply:Cover your neck.GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by snoeproe Set up some practice pieces. Wear a full leather welding jacket.
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelCover your neck.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWForget your neck, make sure to cover your Azz.
Reply:Last time I welded overhead (6011 on some rust and concrete) I learned what it is like to get embers down the back of your neck, down your back and in your crack......     Protect you neck and keep your welding out in front of you as much as possible.Thermal Arc  Power-Tech 10/270  stick welderLincoln buzz-boxPurox O/A setupNothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool
Reply:Here is some real world welding. Now you know why pipe liners make the big bucks! Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelLast overhead I did left burn marks on the front of my neck (the recessed middle part). OUCH, but I didn't stop welding because I had a good bead going.
Reply:My wife just got back from the farm oriented department store and I now have a full leather jacket, and "bib" to attach to the bottom of a welding helmet via snaps so it's removable. I also have a new "skull" cap but it's some type of fabric material. I already have a new can of 1/8th" Atom Arc 7018 in the sealed can of which I'll probably use. While she was gone I was "playing" with the G-258 and must admit I'm impressed with it. It does a good smooth bead in both flat, and vertical up although I need a bit more practice. I'm going to set up with some overhead after supper using 3/16ths material. Don't have anything pressing to do so will get a bit of free time in the shop tonight. The trailer is about 240 miles distant at a towing company's yard whom doesn't mind us working on the weekend and I'd like to head out early tomorrow morning. I may forego hauling the G-213 as the G-258 seems to be stable at this time. It certainly runs much better with the fuel tank flushed, fresh fuel and rebuilt carburetor. The vacuum idler solenoid works perfectly and when an arc is established, it readily accelerates without stumble.I've been building this 258 welder into a portable and self sustaining unit. It has torch tanks, fire extinguisher, vise and stand, tool boxes for consumable storage, and I'm going to build an overhead rack for carrying working stock, and a chop saw on board. The first thing I noticed after mounting the tanks, (large ones) is the tongue jack does not have enough retract travel to set onto my Jeep, (soft suspension). I'll need to remount the jack as the added weight of the tanks caused this. I could mount up a set of smaller tanks but the tank holder would require refab so don't know what I'll do in the end. I'll probably drive my pickup for this trip but my Jeep is primary so need to setup for that. I'm pretty confident I can get the job done but I'll at least get it done enough to get home. I can bring it into the shop once here and as mentioned earlier flip it over for mig welding if need be, but am looking forward to the challenge of this "real world" experience.Thanks again for the help and guidance.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:I would go with 6010 on DC or 6011 on AC. This rod is a feast freeze rod which means it cools quick as you move rod from puddle.  IT maybe easier to position the rod straight into the END of the stinger. The rod will be straight with the handle. If this feels uncomfortable you could BEND the rod to suit for the angle you want , OR try the set groove positions in the stinger . It maybe easier using 3/32 instead of 1/8. If you don't like ear plugs turn the brim of your hat to cover your ear. Sometimes it helps to make a sling for stability with the welding cable to place you arm in. It's easy on pipe, just throw it over and make a half hitch. You might even try a pipe stand to set our arm in. Tack a piece of steel to where the weld is for arm support. Anyway you can get some support to help keep you steady.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveHaha!  I know the feeling Or out of the corner of your eye you can tell you are on fire, but it looks small, and the bead is almost to the end
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelI figured that by the time I could jump up and dance it would have quit burning me anyway.
Reply:Alright, had a little fun over a couple of hours tonight and my confidence is good enough to tackle it. I followed many instances of advice the best I could including 7018 in both 3/32, and 1/8th, 6010 in the same sizes, 6011 in both sizes on DC only, and placement of the electrode into the stinger. I was using 4X4X1/4" angle for a base test so it would be heavy enough for anything I wanted to do in this instance. In the end I feel I learned quite a bit. The suggestion by BD1 of using the electrode in the very end of the stinger worked great and CEP's suggestion of welding both away, and to you both worked well. I discovered the importance of maintaining the short arc characteristics as Dave suggested which seemed to be extremely important in the overhead welding position. This 258 machine has enough "finesse" to it that dialing it in doesn't take too long. I'm very grateful to the respondents of this thread. I didn't even get burned as I really wasn't under the weldment but a bit distant from it. The weldment was about 30" from the floor which was high enough to experience the need to "push" the rod into the arc zone to keep it consistent. I was kneeling on the concrete floor at all times. Glad I had a long sleeve shirt on under that new leather jacket as it really would rub a guy raw until it gets broke in. My wife also purchased a set of "chaps" but I didn't wear them this time as the jacket was rough enough and I didn't want to wear both sets in at the same time. During this learning I noticed the welder was not idling down but continuing to run at governed rpm. Some quick evaluation and thinking of 12V71's post explaining how the vacuum idle worked, it was quickly ascertained this unit had ceased to function. I operated the plunger while the engine was running and there was vacuum but rapid bleedoff. There was not enough pull to the diaphragm unit to overcome the governor spring rating to pull it back to low idle. Figuring the diaphragm was blown due to age, I removed the assembly from the engine and took it apart. I found the solenoid plunger sticking from carbon buildup, and a film of carbon tracking on the sealing washer that seats against the sliding piston precluding a seal allowing vacuum to bleed off. A quick clean up of these parts and reassembly/installation back onto the engine, it works much better than it did.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveHaha!  I know the feeling Or out of the corner of your eye you can tell you are on fire, but it looks small, and the bead is almost to the end
Reply:Originally Posted by SlobIn the end I feel I learned quite a bit. ... I was kneeling on the concrete floor at all times. Glad I had a long sleeve shirt on under that new leather jacket as it really would rub a guy raw until it gets broke in. My wife also purchased a set of "chaps" ...Originally Posted by DSW Sounds like  comment that ought to be on a porn site... Ah it's always fun to pull things like this out of context....
Reply:'' I didn't even get burned as I really wasn't under the weldment but a bit distant from it. The weldment was about 30" from the floor which was high enough to experience the need to "push" the rod into the arc zone to keep it consistent.'' OK, remove all clothing and weld in jacket and chaps. This may help you enjoy the ''burn  experience ''. It might be really interesting in the chaps.   No picture required.
Reply:I actually suffered the burn experience more than once but the one I'm the most fond of involved me and my then 44 year old truck crane, (still have it). I was welding a cable guide back onto the rusty boom with my mig and because gloves are so overrated, wasn't wearing any. I was at about head level welding horizontal using my right hand to squeeze the trigger, and left hand to steady the gun while standing on the ground. Long story short is that I no longer wear a wedding ring as the welding wire ran through a rusty spot on the boom and exploded. The molten slag ball attached itself to my wedding ring and didn't quite incinerate it 3/4 of the way through along with the finger that it surrounded. I still sport that burn which was very deep when fresh. It is still evident on my finger 22 years later.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Ok, I think that I'll revive this thread since it is only a month old.I weld flat, horizontal, and vertical decently, but not up to professional standards. My welding is occasionally and mostly on farm equipment when necessary, once or twice a month.Well, I had about 24" in length overhead to do crawling under a disc. It was a nice easy corner joint (overhead 4F) but it didn't have perfect fit-up due to bent materials. My plan was to fill in the gaps with 1/8" 6011 (90 A) and cover with 7018 (130 A) just like I might do flat. The welds turned out to be a complete pile of crap that would embarrass a raw beginner.The first problem was extinguishing the arc. It was as if the arc was choking on the flux. Both with the 6011 and the 7018. I had to long-arc it to keep it lit and that lead to clumping, dripping, and globs. If I didn't long-arc it the rod would extinguish and stick solidly. The rod had to be bent back and forth to get it free. The rod was being dragged 80° to 90°. It was being held 45° directly into the joint. Arc force was at 70%, hot start at 90%.So I tried:>greater stick angle (45° to 60°)>faster speed>max arc force>max hot start>more amps 6011 (100 A), 7018 (150 A)>combinations of the aboveNone of this seemed to make a bit of difference in the lack of quality of the weld. Tomorrow I'm going to grind the poop out and start over. Any hints or advice are welcome! I'm guessing that there are multiple issues to correct.(I did search and watch videos but they didn't seem to be much different than what I was trying.)Lincoln AC buzzboxLincoln AC/DC buzzboxHobart 125EZ (110V flux-core)Everlast PA200 (stick)Everlast PA300 (stick)Everlast PP70 (plasma cutter)O/A outfitSeveral Metabo, Bosch, HF grinders set up differentlyMisc tools
Reply:Crank it up 15-20 amps more than you do flat. Spray it in with the 6011 to seal the root and push it in with the 7018.
Reply:This will be a big help.Jody to the rescue again!!http://welding-tv.com/2012/07/17/arc...ith-7018-rods/
Reply:Yeah, I'm a big fan of Jody and watch his weekly videos. That particular video was the one I watched prior to starting the job on the disc. Looking at it again is enough to make me cry!! It looks so simple that I think that I was overconfident.Next try will be with setting much less arc force, even though it is supposed to be the factor that keeps the puddle in place and the arc lit. Also, 150 A will be maintained. It seems like a different set of settings, or more skill (or both), is needed.Trying an overhead practice mode before climbing back under the disc needs to happen first. Maybe by next spring when the disc is needed I will have figured it out!Thanks for the replies.
Reply:My dentist has some stuff that would help me weld overhead. He won't let me use it. Other anesthetics affect the brain, make it tough to make a good weld.