Help Me Decide On a Starter TIG / Stick Welder

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Hello, gang !  Looking for some input as to a good starter TIG / Stick machine that I can grow with.  My welding background : I am employed as a service manager at a machinery dealer, where we do MIG and stick welding.  I don't weld very often, but can run a good 7018 bead, and can run a MIG welder as well as anyone in the shop.  I don't have a lot of time behind 6010/6011, but want to get more experience.  I have used a TIG welder a grand total of 30 minutes in my life, welding aluminum with a water cooled Syncrowave 250.  The guy that was letting me try it out had me try to build an arch with filler rod, and I was able to accomplish that (it wasn't pretty, but worked), and he said I should be able to pick it up easily with more practice.  I currently own a Hobart 187 Handler, and want to buy a TIG / Stick machine for my shop.  My wants in a machine are : 200-250 amp range, DC and AC, HF start, something that runs stick well, and the potential to go with a water cooled torch later down the road.  I have been looking at CL daily, and TIG machines in my area are few and far between (I haven't found anything in the last month within 200 miles that would work for me).  So, a new machine may be in the cards.  The LWS is a Lincoln and Miller dealer, and I've priced a Syncrowave 210 so far.  Also considering a Lincoln Precision TIG 225, and POSSIBLY an Everlast 250EX.  I believe the Syncrowave is limited in amps for stick, so that may be an issue or not....  My first question is, should I give consideration to an inverter unit over a transformer based unit ?  Portability is not a major factor for now, as it'll be used mostly in my home shop.  Any other good suggestions for a machine that would be comparable to the ones I have listed above ?  I like that the inverter units require less input power, as I'll have to upgrade my service in the shop to get anything above a 50 amp circuit.  Any other features I should be insterested in for a good unit that I won't outgrow in a couple of years ?  Any input is greatly appreciated !
Reply:I went from a P&H (Linde/Chemtron/etc) 350 transformer machine to an Everlast 250A and Never looked back...I'll still TIG with the P&H anything thicker than 1/4" Alum but, when I do, I miss so many of the inverters features (0-250 pedal, freq adjustments, etc)
Reply:Hello and welcome. Take a minute and add your location to your profile so we know where you are located at. You may find someone here who knows of a machine near you for sale. I use Searchtempest to search CL listings over a large area. I usually use the search term "welder" and sot the list manually to find "deals" many times people will sell older machines when family members pass on and only list the machine as a "welder" and show a picture. A syncrowave 250 would fit what you want perfectly. Used they are about $1500-2300 depending on what is with them. Older Miller 330/320's and their Airco counterparts made by Miller would also fit the bill. They start around $450-900 typically. Syncrowave 200's would also fit on the lower end of your scale. Drop the AC requirement, and things open up more, say an nice XMT 304 thaht will do mig, stick and DC tig with the right accessories..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks for the replies !  I have added my location, hopefully that helps.  There is a SW 250 listed on ebay that's about 200 miles from me that looks nice, but I'm concerned that I'd need to update my electrical service to my shop to use it at full power.  I need to get out to the shop and see what gauge wiring is coming into the breaker panel.  I can do the wiring in the shop myself, but am concerned as to cost if I have to pull larger wires from the meter to the shop panel (it's about a 50 foot run).  I'm pretty sure I currently have 30A breakers on the 230v wiring, and when I made another wiring run to the other side of the shop for the lathe and rotary phase converter to run my mill, I used 10g wire, so pretty sure that would need to be replaced with heavier stuff....
Reply:To get weld output like you want, you really are going to have to pay some where. Either you pay up front with the electrical service, or you pay when you buy an inverter type machine at a higher cost.50-60 amps of 230v power isn't all that expensive to run. 100-125 amp can start to get pricy, especially if you need to upgrade your service as well. Keep in mind at "full power" both the Syncrowave 250 and 330 A/BP's are over 300 amp machines. Unless you are into some seriously heavy stuff, most average guys will never max one of those machines, or if they do, only for short periods on very rare occasions.While the wires coming to the panel are key, the easiest thing to check at 1st is the breaker size. If your main to the shop is 100 amps or bigger you should be good to go. I doubt you would be running all that much others stuff with the machine running unless your shop is air conditioned. Lights usually have a small draw and you seldom run the welder flat out all the time. At worst shut down all the nonessential stuff until your heavy welding project is done..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:The power hungry machines I've owned over the years, I just bought large SO cord, and hard wired right into the breaker. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Just checked the breaker panel in the shop.  I should be good to go.  The main breaker is a 200A, and the wiring from the meter to the shop appears to be 4ga (the ground wire coming from outside is clearly labeled "6 ga", and the power wires are definitely larger than the 6 ga).  I'd imagine I'd need to install larger breakers for my 220v service (one is a 20A, the other is a 50A), and run heavier wire to the machines.  I'd imagine direct wiring the welder in is the way to go over about 50 amps, yes ? I'm guessing a receptacle and plug rated for higher than 50 amps is not inexpensive...    On a side note, I dropped by the LWS this morning and priced the Precision TIG 225.  The owner was there, and told me since we buy so much stuff from him at work, I could order any welder I wanted for $100 over his cost.  I'm going to keep looking for used for now, just incase something pops up on CL that's a good buy, but haven't ruled out a new unit after my discussion with the owner of the LWS this morning.  Thanks for all the input !
Reply:I'd be surprised if it's a 200 amp breaker on 4 gauge wire.Miller Dynasty Dx 200Miller bobcat 250Esab Miniarc 161
Reply:Get a 100amp breaker to run that SW250...I'm trying to get one put in for mine.It'll blow your 50amp breaker at 205amps AC tig....
Reply:Budget is the deciding factor. Want a perfect machine equal to any skill level you may attain? Buy a Dynasty 280DX. If you're not willing to spend that much? Plenty of people are upgrading from Syncrowaves to Dynasty, selling their Syncrowaves. I would look for at least a 250. Factor in the cost of a proper upgrade in wiring. Still too much money? Dialarc HF was a great old school machine that can do everything. All but the Dynasty lack desirable features. There is a good chance you'll have to ship a machine from half way across the country, all part of the process.
Reply:Originally Posted by iongarI'd be surprised if it's a 200 amp breaker on 4 gauge wire.
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Reply:The green ground wire in the middle pic is clearly marked 6GA, the other 3 black wires are the service coming from the meter.
Reply:It looks like 6 gauge ground with 3/0 lives.Miller Dynasty Dx 200Miller bobcat 250Esab Miniarc 161
Reply:So, ok with the 200a main breaker ?
Reply:Yes definitely,  just making sure you weren't using vastly  b undersized wires and burn your shop down.Miller Dynasty Dx 200Miller bobcat 250Esab Miniarc 161
Reply:Ok, so based on what I've learned so far, my current choices for a machine that fits my needs are 1. New Syncrowave 2102. New Lincoln Precision TIG 2253. Used Syncrowave 2504. Older used machines like the 330 A/BP 5. Used Lincoln machines similar to the SW 250 (not sure what they were called, Squarewave maybe?)I don't know if I will ever do any Aluminum over 1/4", so these should all be decent choices, yes ?The other thing I need to weigh is, the 210 being an inverter based machine, would any of you give preference to this unit over the Precision TIG 225 or a Sync 250 due to the added features / power consumption / DV capability ?Are all of the above capable and decent stick machines ?Thanks again, as everyone has been incredibly helpful !
Reply:I have myself an older syncrowave 180,  my shop i work at has larger syncrowave transformer based machines. They have great stick characteristic. The new inverters also are very good. If i had the money i would buy the syncrowave 210 inverter. Great welder and uses very little power. And it will have no problem with 1/4 aluminum.  Transformer based machines are more reliable long term but if your buying new than no worries. If your on a tight budget an older syncrowave you can't go wrong with if you have the power. You dont need any of the fancy settings unless your doing very specialized work.
Reply:Another machine I'm considering is the HTP Invertig 221.   Any opinions on that one ?   There was another thread on the SW 210 vs the Invertig 221, and there was a post that stated the 210 was a better welder for stick.  Anyone know why this might be the case ?   Seems like weldusa should be having their "Black Friday" sale anytime now, so for the range I'm in ($2500 or so), this is also an option.
Reply:Originally Posted by matchAnother machine I'm considering is the HTP Invertig 221.   Any opinions on that one ?   There was another thread on the SW 210 vs the Invertig 221, and there was a post that stated the 210 was a better welder for stick.  Anyone know why this might be the case ?   Seems like weldusa should be having their "Black Friday" sale anytime now, so for the range I'm in ($2500 or so), this is also an option.
Reply:For the price the Thermal Arc / Tweco 186 is a good buy
Reply:Went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Syncrowave 210 at the LWS today.  Thanks to everyone for their contribution to this thread !  Another quick question, buy or lease a bottle ?  200 or 330 cubic feet size ?LWS quoted me a purchase price of $316 on a 200 CF full bottle....  Not sure how this price compares to other gas suppliers.  The lease price for a 330 CF bottle is $44 per year - not sure what a fill costs....
Reply:Its cheaper to fill a large container vs a small one, also cheaper to buy if your gonna keep it long term. Make sure you will be able to easily get your tank filled by your supplier If you go the buying route. Also see if your gonna be hauling around that tank or be stationary on a welding cart.Also let us know about the 210! I'd buy one in a heartbeat if i didn't have my 180.