"Best Practice" -- Grounding Shop for HF TIG

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So, I ordered a new Syncrowave 210 yesterday, and I downloaded the manual from Miller yesterday.  When I got to the section on "Best Practice" for grounding components of my shop building I was surprised.  How critical is all the grounding that they suggest for lights, overhead door track, electrical conduit, outside of shop metal sheeting, work table, shop frame work, etc.  The suggestions seem excessive to me, but I have no idea how critical all this stuff really is.....
Reply:can't hurt. That said I haven't done it, and haven't seen many deleterious effects.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:I think a lot of it is just CYA. Look at the lead sizes and input breaker sizes they suggest, often worst case scenario.GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:When I TIG my sprinkler starts running.  Every time I hit the pedal you can hear the sprinkler solenoid.  Maybe I need some of that extra grounding.
Reply:Originally Posted by SteveooWhen I TIG my sprinkler starts running.  Every time I hit the pedal you can hear the sprinkler solenoid.  Maybe I need some of that extra grounding.
Reply:The good thing is the shop is at least 75 feet from the house, and there's very little in my shop it might mess with (fluorescent lights, fridge, occasionally have an FM radio or CD player running).  Maybe the alarm system in the shop could be effected ?   It has a wireless transmitter that sends info to the house.  Just thought of that.  On another note, anyone HF tig near a mill or lathe DRO ?  Don't have one yet, but going to buy one for the mill in the next year or so.
Reply:If your building electrical was done to code you should have no problems.Measure with a micrometre, mark with chalk,  cut with a torch.Never force anything...just get a bigger hammer.RoyOld Airco buzz box approx 1974Lincoln mig pack 15Lincoln 175 square wave1954 9" south bend lathe
Reply:No problems when I weld with my 210
Reply:I have read the best practices section in the Miller Manuals and it is wrong! Though it is common from equipment manufactures to show this type of setup its still wrong and dangerous.The National Electric code and IEEE have very specific codes and language for grounding. In the Miller best practices you have two grounds with in a structure and that can cause a serious electrocution hazard. The correct way is to think of your electric system as a tree with one trunk. In a residence this is no problem in a commercial setting were there are sub panels there maybe problems depending on who installed the wiring. If you have problems with high frequency effecting electronics you need to check your ground wire connections in your wiring or you may need a bigger ground conductor. If you are getting shocked on your welding table run a wire from your conduit or water pipe to your table.If you want to read more on this (waring its kind of boring technical drivel)http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdf.../grounding.pdf
Reply:Yeah. Your machine is on wheels.Plug machine into outlet. Clamp ground clamp on part or table. Weld.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by matchSo, I ordered a new Syncrowave 210 yesterday, and I downloaded the manual from Miller yesterday.  When I got to the section on "Best Practice" for grounding components of my shop building I was surprised.  How critical is all the grounding that they suggest for lights, overhead door track, electrical conduit, outside of shop metal sheeting, work table, shop frame work, etc.  The suggestions seem excessive to me, but I have no idea how critical all this stuff really is.....
Reply:gmakra is exactly right.This drawing shows two ground rods although they are both labeled 7.I think the best practice would be to put the ground rod near the service panel and run the sensitive circuits directly from the panel and the welder circuit directly from the panel keeping the two separate after the panel.I would ground the weld table to the welder ground which then goes to the panel ground.   The HF currents will want to find the quickest way back to the welder not the earth ground.millermatic 130XPharbour freight 180 amp mig with added caps.hobart stickmate ac/dcpowerarc 200
Reply:oof!  THE "GROUNDING"   That is depicted in the Miller manual is to mitigate HIGH FREQUENCY problems.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by matchSo, I ordered a new Syncrowave 210 yesterday, and I downloaded the manual from Miller yesterday.  When I got to the section on "Best Practice" for grounding components of my shop building I was surprised.  How critical is all the grounding that they suggest for lights, overhead door track, electrical conduit, outside of shop metal sheeting, work table, shop frame work, etc.  The suggestions seem excessive to me, but I have no idea how critical all this stuff really is.....
Reply:This is from a repair tech"Do you self a big favor. At you main panel drive a grounding rod into the ground and run two separate 6 AWG or bigger wires from the ground lug in the main panel to the grounding rod and to a water line.Yeah....... not a good idea, and how is a water line mounted ,to rebar maybe. And where does the rebar go. As for a ground rod, what are the soil conditions. Wet maybe, so where does the HF go, hmmmm, every F'ing where. You just can't generalize these situations. I've mentioned this before, MANY TIMES. simply tywrap the first 2' of tig and work cable together after leaving the machine. This solves the problem on EVERY transformer based machine. Inverter based machines only have the HF on to start (all materials) so like a tenth of a second so tywrapping may be unnecessary."http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...wrap+gig+leadsEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by matchSo, I ordered a new Syncrowave 210 yesterday, and I downloaded the manual from Miller yesterday.  When I got to the section on "Best Practice" for grounding components of my shop building I was surprised.  How critical is all the grounding that they suggest for lights, overhead door track, electrical conduit, outside of shop metal sheeting, work table, shop frame work, etc.  The suggestions seem excessive to me, but I have no idea how critical all this stuff really is.....
Reply:+1 gmakra! The diagram in the Miller manual doesn't meet current code or practices. Additional ground rods are allowed but they all must be bonded to prevent electrocution risk. I have a lot of cnc equipment. Some of the manuals suggested separate ground rods for "noise". In the end we measured the ground resistance and found it to be acceptable and bonded each machine as per code. No issues with HF interference. Remember, HF travels like radio waves and your metal items, all of them, act as antennas. The purpose of an antenna is to amplify signals. You prevent this issue by bonding those items to ground.As others have mentioned, it's not always an issue depending on your environment, but if your HF TIG it's messing up your wife's TV shows, you'll need to address the issue.
Reply:Originally Posted by matchOn another note, anyone HF tig near a mill or lathe DRO ?
Reply:Used to have issues with HF static in my phone lines. Every time an arc jumped the point gaps and on AC we got the buzz. And I had 4 tigs all working at the same time. Drove a ground rod 10 foot deep where all the machnines could tie into and what a mess. My electrician says the earth is so dry under ground that it acted like an antenna to the underground conduit that passed the phone lines. Those days are over now that we have all impulse start inverter machines. I have a Dynasty 350 and Hypetherm Plasma cutter less than feet from 2 CNC machining centers and DRO including PC that drives my Plasma table.Last edited by shovelon; 11-01-2014 at 10:59 AM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.