Help with fifth wheel trailer frame mods

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OK so I picked up this fifth wheel camper frame and I want to use it as a toy hauler with living quarters.The main frame rails are 2" x 6" x 1/8" I can add whatever I need for cross members and where I need them. The "plan" is to build the living quarters up front with the bedroom being on the upper deck and to haul my Jeep on the rear, I am going to add a bit (24" - 30") beaver tail and a third axle. The axles are 3500# axles and with the stuff I want to do I will be at max capacity of the two that are there now. Here are some pics of the trailer as well as a drawing of where things are on the trailer.Thanks in advance for any insight.some sketchesLast edited by dave_dj1; 12-27-2014 at 07:00 PM.
Reply:Now my last car trailer (18' Big Tex) was built about as flimsy as you could build one. I could step on a rear corner and make the opposite front corner come up in the air. The main outside rails were merely angle iron. I will have to upload a pic of a sketch of the living quarters, I was going to buy a truck camper to slide on it but have decided to build it as I don't think a truck camper will be 8' wide. I will build this to the 8' with and 9' long not counting the bedroom.
Reply:Don't add a third axle, they are nothing but trouble. We have one tri-axle trailer and it kills tires all the time. I will let the others comment on the trailer build itself.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:I got a feeling that frame is way to light for what you want to do with it!Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:The third axle is a go, it will help distribute the weight better. I've read extensively on the pros and cons, It won't see a lot of road time, couple trips a year. I have a new car trailer for the day trips. I do appreciate your thoughts on it though.I will be reinforcing the frame where needed, once I add some more 1' pieces outside the two main frame rails I will add an angle iron to them to help. Torque tube is out of the question. I could always take all the outer pieces off and add something the entire length of the frame rails. The rise set up seems to be nice and strong, well built with some triangulation. I can always add more braces. If you look close in the pic you can see the upper deck has the main rails with an outside rail. The camper part will help stiffen the front section as a factory camper does. Thanks,dave
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI got a feeling that frame is way to light for what you want to do with it!
Reply:Agree with DSW.   I've seen used 5th wheel and travel trailer toy haulers for under $3-4k.    Buying an old complete trailer then gutting it and adding a ramp will save you money and time in the long run.   Those trailer frames are just to thin to hold any real load with out the body attachedLast edited by soutthpaw; 12-27-2014 at 09:27 PM.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Think unibody construction. That's what most RV's are.
Reply:Originally Posted by ttyR2Think unibody construction. That's what most RV's are.
Reply:Originally Posted by dave_dj1The third axle is a go, it will help distribute the weight better. I've read extensively on the pros and cons, It won't see a lot of road time, couple trips a year. I have a new car trailer for the day trips. I do appreciate your thoughts on it though.
Reply:Are you going to have side rails back in he haul section? Those would equate to stiffeners. Maybe cap the whole perimeter with angle iron. An angle iron cap wouldn't stiffen it up a terrible lot but would add to the strength as far as having the existing buckle or bow. You're gonna need angle anyway if you use deck lumber."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:I actually saw a trailer last night that had some side rails, they were angle iron and did the trick, it was a cargo container trailer. So to answer your question, yes, I plan on having angle rails down both sides to aid in the trailers strength and rigidity. I don't want something that will end up in the fail thread! LOL That's why I am asking for advice before I start on it. I probably won't do any work on it until spring as I don't have a shop large enough to get it indoors. I have toyed with the idea of building panels in the shop for the camper part.thanks
Reply:You are going to have a hard time getting enough strength in the rear to haul a jeep on that frame. You will at least have to plate the main rails and use a channel or tube for side rails. You will also have to tie your cabin to the main frame, especially the gooseneck. You might get by if you take out all the crossmembers and line the inside the main rails with 6" channel and use a 4" channel side rail with good crossmembers. Your trailer most likely has a double eye spring type suspension and that is the worst possible type for a triple axle set up. If I was doing it I would change out the springs for slippers at least. It's always been my experience that adapting an old trailer to a new design and use is just not cost efective or a good idea. You just don't have things done properly to do the job right.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Well I could run some channel down the outside of the main frames, a 6" x 2" perhaps, I would have to go measure the distance from the tires to the main frame. thanks,dave
Reply:Good luck.I am not gonna try and talk you out of it. I have a toyhauler that was converted from a regular camping rv. The frame is bent. That's why I bought it for so cheap. But I beat the crap out of it taking it offroad. I didnt care that it was bent. Just know what to expect from the project. I think the guys are all giving good advice but don't always appreciate that someone else has an idea and wants to try it.Some guys don't want you to waste your time and money.Some guys dont want your project on the road.I am hoping you do it so good luck. Post tons of pictures too. Both of your successes and your failures.we all learn both ways.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:I got a buddy, well maybe he's a buddy, at least he doesn't run and hide when I show up.  Works downstairs in the shop where K'kins works.Hasn't been a truck, trailer, pulling unit, etc. made that he doesn't think is an accident waiting to happen.  He's either dedicated, or needs intervention..........dunno which.Like above (joker11), you're gonna try it, and more power to ya.  Twas me, I'd pull the axles, and scrap the rest.  The axles are worth about $500 with the springs and brakes.Do it right, and enjoy a good build you can be proud of.Your side rails look to be formed channel.  Not the strongest thing to work with.  Strong when engineered with the accompanying package, but not strong on their own."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Joker11,farmersamm,I appreciate your input and I understand what you and others are saying. I don't want a death trap on the road either. I went and looked the frame over today and I only have about 2.5" between the outside of the main frame and the tire, not enough room for adding much there in my opinion. I am thinking maybe just adding some 2 x 4 x heavy channel on top of the main frame rails and go from there, I don't mind it being higher. I suppose I should track down a factory made goose neck and look it over in person, I have never encountered one. I have a lot of time to work out the details between now and spring.The owner of the place where I buy my steel is pretty smart, I may take a ride up there and visit him and see what he has to say. Plus I need to get some ideas for costs. One thing that baffles me is that factory built car trailers are about as flimsy as things can get and they sell them like hotcakes! My new one is a southern built Leonard brand and it is just as flimsy as my Big Tex was. I think one thing that some are missing is I'm not hauling heavy equipment like most goose neck trailers are designed for. I'm looking at light duty (in the overall scope of things). Maybe I'm just trying to justify it in my mind...lol I'm going to google goose neck equipment trailers now and see if I can find some specs. Just so you all know, this is nothing new, it has been done many times and some of the builds are documented on Pirate 4x4.thanks,daveLast edited by dave_dj1; 12-29-2014 at 08:54 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by dave_dj1 Just so you all know, this is nothing new, it has been done many times and some of the builds are documented on Pirate 4x4.
Reply:I agree with a few others here, Buy a trailer that will suet your needs it will be cheaper in the long run, experience taught me that......
Reply:Been thinking about your project and I still believe that to make this frame do what you want and work you will have as much in it as if you start over and do it right from the start. I've been through that many times. What you do have tho is a really nice 16-18' flatbed similar to Samm's. If I had what you have I would cut that frame down to 16' for a flat deck or 18' with a beavertail. Use 3" channel crossmembers across the top and 4" channel side rails raised 1 1/2" so they are flat with a 2x deck. You will have enough tube left to to make an under slung tongue. Add a coupler, jack, and lights and your done. I wouldn't raise it to go over the tires either, but instead put drive over fenders. When your done you would have a very nice and light trailer that should sell for $2500.00 +/-. You can then use that money to buy the steel and 2-5200lb axles so you can build this trailer right.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw