Using Lathe for twisting iron

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I recently got a 13x40 clausing lathe. 3phase 5HP ...Would twisting ornamental iron (1" or 7/8") square be doable/wise? I'm concerned about motor load and made load on the spindle because it's really not designed to do an operation like this.ESAB Heliarc 252
Reply:Originally Posted by BlauSchuhI recently got a 13x40 clausing lathe. 3phase 5HP ...Would twisting ornamental iron (1" or 7/8") square be doable/wise? I'm concerned about motor load and made load on the spindle because it's really not designed to do an operation like this.
Reply:It's not good for the tailstock.
Reply:Originally Posted by BrianstickIt's not good for the tailstock.
Reply:I'm gonna puke! Don't even think about it!I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:No.The lathe will not have the torque required to twist a bar that big. And, if you tried, you would likely burn up the motor.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Well that's enough feedback to drop the idea was just thinking out loud what else I could make with my new-to-me lathe. I haven't even got power to the lathe yet.  ESAB Heliarc 252
Reply:Might be doable,I would use 1 or 2 steady rests just to be safe.Do you have a Q/A torch to put some heat on it.
Reply:3 phase 5hp in back gear will have more than enough power to twist 1" square stock even from a dead start. So long as you aren't trying to twist a 3" section of it.The only problem is as you twist the the bar it will want to shrink and pull out of the chuck or tailstock or steady rest.Like mentioned the strain on the tailstock/bed/spindle/and gears would be quite high. Either way it is not something you want to think of trying to do as one of the first operation on the lathe.Do other normal operations for quite some time to get to learn  the machine, its limits, and what kind of carnage it can do before doing odd things with it.
Reply:I've tapped 5/8-11 threaded holes through 2 inch deep stock before. After watching one side of the tailstock lift up off the bed, I would never try something like this on a lathe. There are better ways to twist iron than to risk getting hurt. Something is going to give, and when it does, you might not be able to get to the "off" switch in time.
Reply:You want a Hebo machine, either buy it or build it.http://www.trampoline.ro/hebo/Mostly they are using hydraulic power to do that sort of thing.Some blacksmiths have modified pipe threading machines for that sort of thing too.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPT3 phase 5hp in back gear will have more than enough power to twist 1" square stock even from a dead start. So long as you aren't trying to twist a 3" section of it.The only problem is . . .
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitmanThe only problem is the inevitable ending of a back gear with missing teeth.
Reply:I think what you need (to make) is something like this, don't use the lathe.Lincoln Electric Invertec 170SLincoln Electric Powertec 350C PRO
Reply:This has been posted before with success:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=65621www.lindgrensupercars.comMiller Dynasty 350Miller Dynasty 200DX - retiredMiller Millermatic 210Miller Spectrum 3080Miller "Power of Blue" stool  Miller Syncrowave 180SD - retired
Reply:Here's a post from a while back with a link to a nice homemade unit:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=40915Not that I'd do it on the lathe... it can be done if your lathe is large enough. Note the tailstock movement at 1:10. Last edited by forhire; 08-01-2012 at 05:21 PM.Reason: Looks like kjlindgr beat me to it.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTThat can happen.Most atlas lathes are fairly light duty ( I have a 10"). I would try to twist 1" on anything like my lathe. 1/2", ehh maybe but not very much. I would try to do the twisting many other ways before sticking it in the lathe though.
Reply:Its a popular myth that the metal shrinks in length when you twist it- solid bars DONT get shorter. Square tube does get a bit shorter, because it actually collapses, but solid square only twists on the outside, the inside stays the same, and it stays the same length.Really. I know, it seems like it should get shorter, but trust me, I have been twisting hundreds of pieces for over ten years on a HEBO, and they dont get shorter.A Hebo is not hydraulic for twisting- it uses a low speed, high torque electric motor that goes thru a gear reduction unit, and twists at about 10 rpm or so. It has an electric brake on the motor, so you can literally control degree of twist to within a degree or two. A hydraulic motor will work for twisting, though- the really good angle rolls, like the Roundo, from Sweden, use a separate hydraulic motor for each roll, and they can also twist. The trick is lots of torque, and very low speed. A big enough lathe, that will go really really slow, can work. I have heard of guys retrofitting lathes, by gearing down the motor to run even slower, and it can work fine. Target speed should be 7 to 12 rpm. Many lathes only go down to 100 rpm, some bigger, older ones may go to 30 or 50, but you still need to slow em down even more.
Reply:Hi, you can also twist 1" square solid steel bars by hand without using any heat.....I have seen it done personally.A friend of mine who had a welding business, and other mixed stuff, used to twist 1" hot rolled steel square bars for ornamental iron work by gripping a 3 metre length of steel bar in a bench vice in the horizontal plane, and attaching a large tap wrench with a span of 1-1/2 metre to the far end and twisting it by hand....and he isn't any Superman type.The length of the bar is it's weakness, and short bars would probably be harder to do....can't confirm that, but the long ones I can definately confirm.Contrary to popular thought, when the bar twists it does not attain a spring like tendency to want to spring back.In one session he twisted 4 bars to make a piece of iron artwork for a customer.I would not twist a bar in the lathe, even if it could be geared down to 10 rpm or so as it's too risky, but with the proper safeguards like a steady or two to guide it and a manual clutch in place of a switch I expect it could be done.....there would be no danger of a catastrophic wild spring back occurence happening as the mild steel once twisted stays that way.It's interesting to note that the bar does not shorten when twisted as posted by Ries in the last post.   Ian.
Reply:While I think its a really bad idea to use a lathe to do twisting, there was a post a couple of weeks ago of and old junk Jet lathe, with some mods I think it would be the basis of a project to build a decent twister.I think a hydraulic motor on a chain for reduction would be simplest, but I am sure there are other ways to skin this cat.Just need a junk lathe.
Reply:Fred, you are using overkill....you don't need that much force to twist a bar of steel....and it's a dangerous set-up if you DIY it.Ian.
Reply:" Fred, you are using overkill....you don't need that much force to twist a bar of steel....and it's a dangerous set-up if you DIY it. Ian "Not really seeing the dangerous part of this, a hydraulic or even an air operated motor with high torque, maybe gear reduction dump the gearing or pulley system currently used, speed is not neccessary, rework the tailstock the clamp and hold it.  Really is using the bed and the chuck, high torque and about 20 rpm's. If you put guards on it, and use a decent control its not unsafe.It needs that doner lathe bed picked up for a song, I have seen a couple POS lathes posted here should I buy that would work. Of course you could just make it from scratch and it would be almost as easy.Heres a machine that does it ALL:http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...ture=endscreen
Reply:Do it by hand, here's one I just did. Don't wreck a good lathe.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:" Do it by hand, here's one I just did. Don't wreck a good lathe."No pic, and for me I wouldn't consider using my my lathe to twist, just using parts one step from the scrapyard @ .25 a pound to make something.
Reply:Do it by hand, here's one I just did. Don't wreck a good lathe. Heat, muscle, and a good eye is all you need.  Attached ImagesI hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboyslooks pretty good, how long did it take?
Reply:About an hour.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:" About an hour. "Wouldn't want to built a gate or rail usig 20-40 of those, For a couple say up to 5 or 6 ,  I would do like you did though, good job.