retirement and future job

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i have wondered about some here who seem to be buying a lot of expensive welding equipment. when i was younger i was saving nothing for retirement for many many years. as you get older welding outside in the rain and snow or welding on high steel or working on the floor gets harder for a older person to do..my question is how many are watching their money and saving for retirement ??.currently i at 54 years old have enough saved for a $2000/ monthly annuity for the rest of my life. so if needed i would never be rich but never have to work a job i hated to do cause a older body can not do it easy anymore..just asking if anybody saving for retirement ?? quite common for people 40 or younger to not worry about it and spending money as fast as they make it often on items not really needed. have a garage full of tools is not going to pay monthly bills easily. that is i know a lot figure they can do paying welding jobs out of their garage but it is rarely steady paying work you can depend on income to live off of..just asking others to consider when they are 55 and older that they might have to quite working or change job types cause when older you often cannot do the work you did when younger. no greater feeling of security when you got enough saved for job layoff or early retirement if you have too. no greater feeling of insecurity than when you got nothing saved for job loss and retirement. many people cannot even be unemployed 6 months without going bankrupt..and i know when i was younger i did not want to talk about retirement and the older guys warning me to save for retirement i did not at the time take seriously. one older welder i learned a lot from one day at 54 years old fell on ice and broke his hip. he never came back to work and years later he comes to my house to have his walker weld repaired. basically he used it to walk and could turn around and sit on it if tired. he was telling me he was constantly in pain ever since he broke his hip. obviously i charged him nothing to weld his walker. he did not have much saved and retired or disabled he had just barely enough to get by..i am just saying consider your future retirement when buying stuff.
Reply:True, you have a valid point..most people dont save..if they dont spend big money on a welder its a 60 inch screen tv.......but I look at a good quality welder or any other equipment as an investment..can one spend beyond there means..absolutely..and if thats the case..you make a good point..not only for a welder..but anything else you purchase....but to buy low quality when you need it to work to make money. makes no sense at all...and we will all have opinions on what we think is quality or not. and we all have favorite brands we like to stick by...fyi..I buy alot from harbor freight..but I know most is china made and treat it as such..example..a set of 3/4 inch sockets I may use once in awhile are china made because SK or snap on are crazy priced..but thats my gamble i will take..if I had a truck shop and used them daily..then it would be SK or Snap on...Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:Originally Posted by roadkillbobbTrue, you have a valid point..most people dont save..if they dont spend big money on a welder its a 60 inch screen tv.......but I look at a good quality welder or any other equipment as an investment..can one spend beyond there means..absolutely..and if thats the case..you make a good point..not only for a welder..but anything else you purchase....but to buy low quality when you need it to work to make money. makes no sense at all...and we will all have opinions on what we think is quality or not. and we all have favorite brands we like to stick by...fyi..I buy alot from harbor freight..but I know most is china made and treat it as such..example..a set of 3/4 inch sockets I may use once in awhile are china made because SK or snap on are crazy priced..but thats my gamble i will take..if I had a truck shop and used them daily..then it would be SK or Snap on...
Reply:I worked 15 years as a non union welder. For that 15 years I had a total of $16000 in a pension.  I knew that was not going to do the job for me at retirement so I left that job and got into a union, I worked union for 26 years . For that 26 years My pension is many times more than I would have had if I kept that non union job. I am not big pro union but I will have to say that the benefits are better than non union. If I had worked for myself I figured I would have had to make at least $150K clear a years to have the health care and pension I have through the union.  I am not wealthy but will be much better off than many that will have only S.S.  Do not short the guys with the garage full of tools though. I work for myself now to have some mad money. I have averaged about $3000 a month working part time out of my garage tools. In the future I believe the tools in a guys garage will be far more valuable than that same amount of money in the bank. I have some property in a 55+ community and I drove myself crazy there. I needed something to do besides drink coffee and play cards. I believe I am healthier working some. It gets me going. Actually I think I still am too lazy. I have been contemplating remodeling the house.Last edited by thegary; 01-07-2016 at 11:35 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by thegaryI worked 15 years as a non union welder. For that 15 years I had a total of $16000 in a pension.  I knew that was not going to do the job for me at retirement so I left that job and got into a union, I worked union for 26 years . For that 26 years My pension is many times more than I would have had if I kept that non union job. I am not big pro union but I will have to say that the benefits are better than non union. If I had worked for myself I figured I would have had to make at least $150K clear a years to have the health care and pension I have through the union.  I am not wealthy but will be much better off than many that will have only S.S.  Do not short the guys with the garage full of tools though. I work for myself now to have some mad money. I have averaged about $3000 a month working part time out of my garage tools. In the future I believe the tools in a guys garage will be far more valuable than money in the bank.
Reply:First off if you have to barrow money for tools you can't afford them.  I do not want to get into specifics but $1300 a month would not cut it for me.  My self pay health insurance is 2/3rds that much for me and the wife.  Working for myself now I do not need the money to live day to day. It is to better my life both health wise and to have money to do things.  I think you are cutting yourself short. 55 is not that old , your life does not need to be in a rocking chair . I know many that stay productive into their 70's. In fact I think it makes them healthier. I retired at 55 the first year I did nothing but retirement, that was not for me. I am now 61 and enjoy working some. I think I will sell my property in a 55+ community. I can always buy one again when I am in my 70s if the Lord doesn't come by then.
Reply:I am saving for retirement.  I started many years ago saving 10% every month, after a few years I bumped it to 20, then 30, now I'm at 40%.  In addition to that I have put 25 percent in my 401K for quite a few years plus a 9% match, and max out a ROth every year.  A little over a year ago I went through a real nasty divorce that cost me 500 thousand cash, it hurt but I WILL recover financially in the long run.  I have accumulated a huge pile of welding/fabrication gear over the years and the day I turn 55 I will have a big sale and ALL of it will go except 1 or two machines, a backhoe, and a few miscellaneous tools, just enough to keep my own crap running and maybe make a few Christmas things for people.  After retirement at 55 I will probably do a lot of fishing and hunting for a couple of years then maybe a little consulting to stay busy..................that's the plan today, but things change daily.6 Miller Big Blue 600 Air Paks2 Miller 400D6 Lincoln LN-25's4 Miller Xtreme 12VS2 Miller Dimension 812 4 Climax BW-3000Z bore welders Hypertherm 65 and 85Bug-O Track BugPair of Welpers
Reply:Originally Posted by ExpatWelderI am saving for retirement.  I started many years ago saving 10% every month, after a few years I bumped it to 20, then 30, now I'm at 40%.  In addition to that I have put 25 percent in my 401K for quite a few years plus a 9% match, and max out a ROth every year.  A little over a year ago I went through a real nasty divorce that cost me 500 thousand cash, it hurt but I WILL recover financially in the long run.  I have accumulated a huge pile of welding/fabrication gear over the years and the day I turn 55 I will have a big sale and ALL of it will go except 1 or two machines, a backhoe, and a few miscellaneous tools, just enough to keep my own crap running and maybe make a few Christmas things for people.  After retirement at 55 I will probably do a lot of fishing and hunting for a couple of years then maybe a little consulting to stay busy..................that's the plan today, but things change daily.
Reply:Originally Posted by ExpatWelderI am saving for retirement.  I started many years ago saving 10% every month, after a few years I bumped it to 20, then 30, now I'm at 40%.  In addition to that I have put 25 percent in my 401K for quite a few years plus a 9% match, and max out a ROth every year.  A little over a year ago I went through a real nasty divorce that cost me 500 thousand cash, it hurt but I WILL recover financially in the long run.  I have accumulated a huge pile of welding/fabrication gear over the years and the day I turn 55 I will have a big sale and ALL of it will go except 1 or two machines, a backhoe, and a few miscellaneous tools, just enough to keep my own crap running and maybe make a few Christmas things for people.  After retirement at 55 I will probably do a lot of fishing and hunting for a couple of years then maybe a little consulting to stay busy..................that's the plan today, but things change daily.
Reply:That Techshop looks like a good thing.  I remember back in the 70's they had that type of thing for auto repair. You could rent a stall by the hour and a lift if needed. they rented tools there too and had a parts store. It did not last very long before the insurance companies made it not feasible any more. I think it was not there more than a year or so.  I would not like having to drive there to do something all the time.  They charge extra if you want storage or a shop too.  If it is like the car shop I used to rent space at in the 70's the supplies store will all be list prices too.
Reply:Originally Posted by thegaryThat Techshop looks like a good thing.  I remember back in the 70's they had that type of thing for auto repair. You could rent a stall by the hour and a lift if needed. they rented tools there too and had a parts store. It did not last very long before the insurance companies made it not feasible any more. I think it was not there more than a year or so.  I would not like having to drive there to do something all the time.  They charge extra if you want storage or a shop too.  If it is like the car shop I used to rent space at in the 70's the supplies store will all be list prices too.
Reply:.better than going to a bar and spending the money on booze.[/QUOTE] There is absolutely not doubt about that. If your are fortunate enough to be close to one it can definatly be a good thing for personal projects.
Reply:thats an interesting concept..nothing in NY yet..heres the link to them...http://www.techshop.ws/locations.htmlOf all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:actually in Rochester, NY they have Makerspace instead of Techshop. the group shop and pay monthly dues for access to maybe over $1,000,000. in shop equipment is slowly catching on. probably there is a licensing fee for using any name just like any chain like Mcdonalds or Burger King..when you do the math $150/month is $1800/year and it sounds not cheap but that is for equipment and the shop. having a home shop is not practical for many people especially somebody renting a apartment. this way people renting a apartment have access to a big shop. also offering training classes is good as that way you can train say on a CNC waterjet cutter or other equipment that ordinarily you would never could afford to buy .Makerspace is $40 / month but i believe they do not have so much equipment. many group shops buy equipment as they collect enough monthly fees and they also get donated equipment from members in exchange for monthly fee credit. Makerspace i believe was started by people building the robot toy cars. so you have computer stuff, automation, shop fabrication, welding, electronics, etc all combined.http://www.rochestermakerspace.org/..Last edited by WNY_TomB; 01-08-2016 at 11:19 AM.
Reply:Tom,I really don't get you, very confrontational, flaming people because they don't buy a Harbor Freight welder. People here buy what equipment they want to for whatever THEY want to use it for. Glad to see you're happy playing with toys. People ask about equipment and others given honest opinions of what they are capable of. Some people go bankrupt from starting a business, some people are wildly successful and employ others like yourself, and a whole lot in between. Just because a $500 harbor freight machine can weld what YOU want it to doesn't mean it can handle what others need it to do. Some people on here tinker with welding, some make a living with it. Maybe let people decide for themselves what they need or WANT. Possibly 9 of the 10 garages you've seen that have tools are a hobby. Some people have a boat and fishing rods, some have a motorcycle, a lot for them never expect it to make them a living either.FYI, my stuff is all paid for, house , cars, motorcycles, tools and welding equipment. I can work tomorrow or not if I so choose, I don't owe the bank anything. Gone are the days where you can get a job and expect them to take care of you. Glad you were able to reap the rewards of others success. "Retirement" is a new post industrial western concept only possible from the wealth created by capitalism, which is the reward to risk, not hiding under a rock.Last edited by xryan; 01-08-2016 at 01:30 PM.RyanMiller Multimatic 200 tig/spool gun/wireless remoteMillermatic 350P, Bernard/XR Python gunsMiller Dynasty 350, Coolmate 3.5 & wireless remoteCK WF1 TIG wire feederMiller Spectrum 375 XtremeOptrel e684Miller Digital EliteMiller Weld-Mask
Reply:Originally Posted by xryanTom,I really don't get you, very confrontational, flaming people because they don't buy a Harbor Freight welder. People here buy what equipment they want to for whatever THEY want to use it for. Glad to see you're happy playing with toys. People ask about equipment and others given honest opinions of what they are capable of. Some people go bankrupt from starting a business, some people are wildly successful and employ others like yourself, and a whole lot in between. Just because a $500 harbor freight machine can weld what YOU want it to doesn't mean it can handle what others need it to do. Some people on here tinker with welding, some make a living with it. Maybe let people decide for themselves what they need or WANT. Possibly 9 of the 10 garages you've seen that have tools are a hobby. Some people have a boat and fishing rods, some have a motorcycle, a lot for them never expect it to make them a living either.FYI, my stuff is all paid for, house , cars, motorcycles, tools and welding equipment. I can work tomorrow or not if I so choose, I don't owe the bank anything. Gone are the days where you can get a job and expect them to take care of you. Glad you were able to reap the rewards of others success. "Retirement" is a new post industrial western concept only possible from the wealth created by capitalism, which is the reward to risk, not hiding under a rock.
Reply:i would advise any young person to start saving early. old age will be here before you know it. i was a structural ironworker for 16 years so my present job as a maint welder is a second career.  in a year or so i will retire at 50% pay. in addition i've been saving 15% of my wages in a deferred comp plan for 28 years. that plus a modest annuity and social security should be enough. i'm going to divide my time between here in nyc and my shack in port charlotte fla. i have no expensive equipment just a modest welding machine and cutting set-up. i'm hoping with that i can keep my hand in because i love the work too much to give it up entirely.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:I have a $250 welding helmet that makes me exactly $0. And a couple blue welders and a cnc mill and all the support equipment. And I'm saving enough to have a cushy retirement. Not everyone that buys expensive equipment is depleting their savings to do so. And those who are aren't the type that are going to listen to your praise of Harbor Freight and change their ways.For me this is all a hobby. And I think it's about the best hobby I could have. Most of my friends spend thousands on video games or computers or going out. With my hobby I use my brain and build a skill. And my tools will resell for about what I paid, even more in many cases. Whereas what is the value in drinking to the bars (not that I never do, I just do so in moderation).I don't want to be frustrated while doing my hobbies, that's not what they're for. That's why I buy decent equipment. It saves me time. I take pride in owning and using my equipment. And I'm the type of person that would rather spend $1000 now than $200 a year for the next 10 years. I also find that used, well built equipment is better than new Chinese 80% of the time. For instance, my $500 50 year old drill press works perfectly and will outlive me, if cared for.Instead of trying to convince everyone to get a cheap welder, why don't you post a review of yours and then stop jumping into threads to convince everyone not to buy decent equipment. Everyone here knows Chinese welders exist. There is a good reason many people aren't interested.Btw, my $250 helmet is AT LEAST 5x better than my $50 Chinese one. Just switching helmets noticeably improved my weld quality.Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Reply:I'm where a lot of guys are, divorced, lost my retirement and had to start over, still paying off the divorce and have to make up $400-$600 that I'm short every month from my regular paycheck - I make about $2000/month so any retirement I eventually build will be very small.I do not have any retirement at age 45 - I barely keep my roof over my head and my $800 car and $1500 truck on the road - they continue to shed rusty metal like champs.I convince myself that I like doing carpentry work, welding and mechanic work on the side (liking two of those are a lie).I buy any tool that makes me money faster than not having it.I decide that my one extravagance, my 2002 Harley is all the toys I'll ever want and that my big old dirty welders count as toys.I consider my situation to be very common, and actually much better than a lot of people I know.My kids are fed and are awesome - I'll worry about "retirement" if I make it that far - I suspect I'll decide I "like working too much to retire."I'm sure many on WW would list a pretty similar story.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Everyone has different wants and needs. When younger and working it can be difficult to buy the top quality equipment you want but don't really need to. Then as you get older, kids done with college, and house paid off you find you may have some extra bucks to buy the stuff you couldn't afford at a earlier age. Sure you can make due with what you have but you know you always wanted better. At retirement age that maybe the time to get what you want while you are still above ground. Each situation is different and I do not like using junk . I used quality equipment and tools at work so why not at home . IF you can afford it, go for it. Why by ONE ELLIS band saw when you could go to harbor freight and buy a dozen of their 4x6 band saws for around the same price. Everybody is different , you need to prepare and choose wisely and be a smart shopper. Oh, I love my Miller Elite hood too.
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1Why by ONE ELLIS band saw when you could go to harbor freight and buy a dozen of their 4x6 band saws for around the same price. Everybody is different , you need to prepare and choose wisely and be a smart shopper. Oh, I love my Miller Elite hood too.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI'm where a lot of guys are, divorced, lost my retirement and had to start over, still paying off the divorce and have to make up $400-$600 that I'm short every month from my regular paycheck - I make about $2000/month so any retirement I eventually build will be very small.I do not have any retirement at age 45 - I barely keep my roof over my head and my $800 car and $1500 truck on the road - they continue to shed rusty metal like champs.I convince myself that I like doing carpentry work, welding and mechanic work on the side (liking two of those are a lie).I buy any tool that makes me money faster than not having it.I decide that my one extravagance, my 2002 Harley is all the toys I'll ever want and that my big old dirty welders count as toys.I consider my situation to be very common, and actually much better than a lot of people I know.My kids are fed and are awesome - I'll worry about "retirement" if I make it that far - I suspect I'll decide I "like working too much to retire."I'm sure many on WW would list a pretty similar story.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveEllis does make a sweet saw I'll get one instead of my crappy little Jet, maybe someday
Reply:Originally Posted by docwelderdave; you had some tough breaks but you're doing 100% better than the 17,000 guys i work around. besides, your positive attitude is money in the bank.
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1Yes Dave, the Ellis is awesome ! Sorry, I just had to toss that in since I just got one end of last year. It took a long time but I have it.math is one of the most powerful tools you can learn to use. how to become a millionaire.a interesting government site with compound interest calculator for retirement savings for example.https://www.investor.gov/tools/calcu...r#.U5MmUnbYmSo.$1. initial investment $300. a month saved on 401K retirement account instead of spend on cafeteria lunch, coffee, pop, etc50 years6% which is average for stock market mutual fund of many stocks combined over many decadesyou get $1,045,227.68 savings.take you pick where you get the $300. from but saving it instead of cell phone plans, cable tv, lunch at cafeteria instead of bringing you own, not buying so many toys like expensive welding equipment (some is ok just dont overdo it), etc
Reply:Originally Posted by zamazzI have a $250 welding helmet that makes me exactly $0. And a couple blue welders and a cnc mill and all the support equipment. And I'm saving enough to have a cushy retirement. Not everyone that buys expensive equipment is depleting their savings to do so. And those who are aren't the type that are going to listen to your praise of Harbor Freight and change their ways.For me this is all a hobby. And I think it's about the best hobby I could have. Most of my friends spend thousands on video games or computers or going out. With my hobby I use my brain and build a skill. And my tools will resell for about what I paid, even more in many cases. Whereas what is the value in drinking to the bars (not that I never do, I just do so in moderation).I don't want to be frustrated while doing my hobbies, that's not what they're for. That's why I buy decent equipment. It saves me time. I take pride in owning and using my equipment. And I'm the type of person that would rather spend $1000 now than $200 a year for the next 10 years. I also find that used, well built equipment is better than new Chinese 80% of the time. For instance, my $500 50 year old drill press works perfectly and will outlive me, if cared for.Instead of trying to convince everyone to get a cheap welder, why don't you post a review of yours and then stop jumping into threads to convince everyone not to buy decent equipment. Everyone here knows Chinese welders exist. There is a good reason many people aren't interested.Btw, my $250 helmet is AT LEAST 5x better than my $50 Chinese one. Just switching helmets noticeably improved my weld quality.Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Reply:'' in my experience over 90% do not do enough welding jobs to pay for the welding equipment they keep in the garage.''I guess it depends on what type of people you know. In doing my art work only, it paid for my complete Miller 140 machine and tank in 6 months . My CST 280 stick machine took almost a year to get paid for making custom push bars for the General Lee cars that a guy was building and selling. It depends on what type of expertise area you work in and people who know you. I did a couple of Equine arena storage wagons and racks that paid for a third of my recently purchased Ellis saw. It makes projects and work more enjoyable to me knowing I have quality equipment and when the customer sees your shop or setup they are impressed. I guess you can do the same stuff with less money invested but quality equipment last longer , can get cutting done quicker and accurately, and BLUE is my favorite color. As you mentioned with the 401 K. I took advantage of it 20 years before retiring and contributed the maximum which I think you can do at 59 until I retired . I hope I don't need to remove any until I'm forced to which I think is around 70.I too tell the young people to start saving for retirement but for many it is hard today like it was when I was young. You need to separate your '' wants '' from your '' needs ''.Good luck to all you guys .
Reply:Originally Posted by BD1'' in my experience over 90% do not do enough welding jobs to pay for the welding equipment they keep in the garage.''I guess it depends on what type of people you know. In doing my art work only, it paid for my complete Miller 140 machine and tank in 6 months . My CST 280 stick machine took almost a year to get paid for making custom push bars for the General Lee cars that a guy was building and selling. It depends on what type of expertise area you work in and people who know you. I did a couple of Equine arena storage wagons and racks that paid for a third of my recently purchased Ellis saw. It makes projects and work more enjoyable to me knowing I have quality equipment and when the customer sees your shop or setup they are impressed. I guess you can do the same stuff with less money invested but quality equipment last longer , can get cutting done quicker and accurately, and BLUE is my favorite color. As you mentioned with the 401 K. I took advantage of it 20 years before retiring and contributed the maximum which I think you can do at 59 until I retired . I hope I don't need to remove any until I'm forced to which I think is around 70.I too tell the young people to start saving for retirement but for many it is hard today like it was when I was young. You need to separate your '' wants '' from your '' needs ''.Good luck to all you guys .
Reply:In this New economy you will find that less will have a retirement , not more.  A lot of the jobs being made now are low skill or no skill jobs that you need 3 jobs to live. I worked and my wife stayed home to raise the kids. That is very rare now days, it was even rare when Iwas doing it.  Being a 1 income family makes a huge difference in life style. Many two income families that I knew were spending every penny they made. Talking about saving like it is a choice is not realistic for about half the US population.  Tell the family thats making $15-$20k a year that they should be saving.  Even I did not have money to save or spend on "toys" for over 20 years when I was raising my kids.  My wife has been sickly since the day we were married so between medical deductibles and self pay portions and raising kids the money was gone. In comparison to many I made decent money . I did not live large and did not have any toys for many years. Lived in a 2 bedroom house on the poor side of town. Those that have saved think all could do it. It does not work that way. My brother in law got a break and was for the most part handed the opportunity to have a good business.  He did great and did make some good decisions for about 20 years then as easy as the opportunity was handed to him it was taken away. He lost everything but while we was well off he used to always complained about how anybody should be able to do well. After he lost it all he never recovered .     A lot of what happens in life is not up to the individual.  Sure there are those that life happens to and those that make life happen.  I lived through the lean years and in the end ( so far lord will ) I have done ok and have a reasonable retirement.  To me the person I am is far more important than how much I have. I now look at my kids and pray that they can at least have a decent life. I think the generations coming up are living in a new and not for the better America.     Those that think the government is going to save them are in for a real shock. To me I equate government dependance to slavery. So many now do not want to work for what they want or need.  They think that if they elect a person that will give them what they want then life will be better.  Those of us that work have less and less incentive to work. Why work when it will just be taken away and given to the those that are too lazy to help themselves . It will become like the USSR. I was in East Germany just a years after the wall came down. The people I talked to said there was no reason to work because you got no more for working than anyone else that did not. Those that had jobs did very little at work because there was not incentive to work hard. They just showed up and maybe did a little work just out of boredom . West Germany was imposed a tax to rebuild all of East Germany after decades of neglect and no opportunity by the USSR.Last edited by thegary; 01-09-2016 at 11:21 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by thegaryIn this New economy you will find that less will have a retirement , not more.  A lot of the jobs being made now are low skill or no skill jobs that you need 3 jobs to live. I worked and my wife stayed home to raise the kids. That is very rare now days, it was even rare when Iwas doing it.  Being a 1 income family makes a huge difference in life style. Many two income families that I knew were spending every penny they made. Talking about saving like it is a choice is not realistic for about half the US population.  Tell the family thats making $15-$20k a year that they should be saving.  Even I did not have money to save or spend on "toys" for over 20 years when I was raising my kids.  My wife has been sickly since the day we were married so between medical deductibles and self pay portions and raising kids the money was gone. In comparison to many I made decent money . I did not live large and did not have any toys for many years. Lived in a 2 bedroom house on the poor side of town. Those that have saved think all could do it. It does not work that way. My brother in law got a break and was for the most part handed the opportunity to have a good business.  He did great and did make some good decisions for about 20 years then as easy as the opportunity was handed to him it was taken away. He lost everything but while we was well off he used to always compain about how anybody should be able to do well. After he lost it all he never recovered .  A lot of what happens in life is not up to the individual.  Sure there are those that life happens to and those that make life happen.  I lived through the lean years and in the end ( so far lord will ) I have done ok and have a reasonable retirement.  To me the person I am is far more important than how much I have. I now look at my kids and pray that they can at least have a decent life. I think the generations coming up are living in a new and not for the better America. Those that think the government is going to save them are in for a real shock. To me I equate government dependance to slavery. So many now do not want to work for what they want or need.  They think that if they elect a person that will give them what they want then life will be better.  Those of us that work have less and less incentive to work. Whey work when it will just be taken away and given to the those that are too lazy to help themselves . It will become like the USSR. I was in East Germany just a years after the wall came down. The people I talked to said there was no reason to work because you got no more for working than anyone else that did not. Those that had jobs did very little at work because there was not incentive to work hard. They just showed up and maybe did a little work just out of boredom .
Reply:Originally Posted by WNY_TomB.SS is only suppose to be 40% of retiree income the rest is to come from savings. i have often seen people buy the bigger house and have cable tv and cell phone plans and home shop full of welding equipment and they have no money for any savings. anytime you take a loan out for example on $100,000 house it is usually over $250,000 by the time you pay loan interest. the loan interest often is wasting considerable income.when you buy stuff you do not need but only want AND you pay loan interest often people are wasting 2/3 of their income. there are people making $10./hr doing better than people making $20./hr because they are spending and saving money more wisely. for example in many countries you get loans at zero interest from family members AND family makes sure it is paid back. those countries often have much lower wages and yet the people are doing better than Americans on mortgage loans, auto loans, a garage full of toys, cell phone plans, etc. compound interest math is in many ways survival of the smartest at math. .Communism what most found out is when you do not get more pay for extra work people do not bother working any more than they have too. in China they had famines where millions starved with not enough food grown. Chinese eventually changed laws where after you grew minimum amount and gave to government any extra food grown farmer could sell it and keep the profits. Chinese food production went up 400% in a few years and this is based on USA CIA report on China..when extra work and more important smarter work is rewarded then a country gets richer. most poor countries are poor because their is little reward for more work or smarter work
Reply:Every time you read the financials they keep telling how less and less American families or people cannot save or dont have enough savings, but the govt keeps taking away from you and give it to the illegals or all the non working outsiders that the govt takes  into the country...hoping everyone will be on government handouts down the road...care = control.....thats what the government wants..to bankrupt everyone but the 1% that is part of the political machine...Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:if ss is supposed to be 40% of retiree income those unfortunates are in deep deep trouble. i was the only breadwinner in my family till the mrs got bored when the kids were grown and took a pt job.  we went away on vacation every year,kids in private girls school and college plus recently a second vacation/retirement home. was it easy? no it wasn't. i worked a second job sometimes a third. i spent most of my time working every scrap of ot i could and when that died i worked in a junkyard weekends and nights. i also worked off hour gigs. some of those pics are posted here on the ww. i missed a large part of my kids childhood.i thank god for a wife that knows how to economize.  my heart bleeds for the people that are struggling and living in poverty but i sacrificed a lot for the little i have. if you want success you have to want it bad and go out and chase it.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:''if you are making so much money than why is it not a full time job ??? ''In my case I don't need a full time job. My pension and SS is fine. Now I do the job I want to do when I want to do it. Right now I could be working 8 hours a day 5 or 6 days a week. Do I ? NO ! I pick and choose who I do work for. I even have done hours and days  of work for some for free because they can't afford to have it done . ''if you got a $1,000,000 in retirement saving and you want to buy welding equipment than i see no problem''If I had a $1,000,000.00 in a retirement savings I would not be typing here ! .
Reply:I started saving for retirement at 19 after reading a book about Benjamin Franklin (rule of 72) and John Bogle. Was able to retire at 49.
Reply:In the past 6 or 8 years I have purchased quite a bit of metalworking equipment. I've purchased things slowly and used the money made off of them, and my 2nd jobs, to purchase newer, better, faster equipment. I've worked 2 jobs since I was old enough to work. In December I purchased a 350P with a push/pull and a Dynasty 350 is the same day, paid in full.  In January I purchased a monster welding table, paid in full.This doesn't include anything from the machining side of things which includes a mill, lathe, horizontal mill, surface grinder, and a bunch of other machines that are all fully tooled. There is also a well tooled Hossfeld kicking around the shop. Add it up, I have a boatload of the money invested in all of this. You can sit and preach about buying expensive equipment all you want but you know what? I absolutely love what I do and it makes money. I can guarantee that I will break your Harbor Freight welder the first day I use it. This statement is coming from experience, I've owned a few of their machines when I was starting. Their max rated capabilities won't even come close to the day to day operations. How much 1/16" core wire will they run before they give up the ghost? You going to set up to carbon arc with a 1/4"carbon on a 200 amp welder? I've got and old P & H, 500 amp welder that eats them like candy. Yes, it weighs a ton and I can't pick it up and put it on my shelf, or hardwire it to the panel, as you have mentioned 40K times before, but there aren't many lunch box sized welders that will do it. How about last month when I got a run for 300 machined aluminum parts? I'm sure my customer would have appreciated me aluminum stick welding them together as you love to mention. Why don't I do it full time? I have a good full time job that I like during the day and I'll make 150K/yr working 60 hours a week with very little headache. I have nice equipment and I invest in nice equipment and when the customer says "I have this crazy job and it has to be right and I need it in a few days" I just pick the job up and deliver it next Tuesday. There isn't any messing around trying to rig up a solution to a problem that could be solved by having the right equipment. I work in the shop when there is good work and work in the shop when I'm just messing around doing my own stuff. I've maxed out my Roth every year since I graduated high school and have some money stashed elsewhere also. Even if I go broke tomorrow it wouldn't really matter because for the past 20 years I've been working with people that regret their entire life. Every one of them is the same and they all want to give me advice on this or that but it's difficult to take their advice because when they aren't busy giving me life lessons they just complain about how, in essence, they did absolutely nothing meaningful, to them personally, their entire life. They are so busy regretting their entire life that they will waste what good years they have left wallowing in their own self pity. I would much rather make a somewhat well thought out decision about what direction my life is headed than be so paralyzed by the fear of making and actual decision that I end up regretting never making a decision at all. So far I don't regret much.....
Reply:Originally Posted by burnsIn the past 6 or 8 years I have purchased quite a bit of metalworking equipment. I've purchased things slowly and used the money made off of them, and my 2nd jobs, to purchase newer, better, faster equipment. I've worked 2 jobs since I was old enough to work. In December I purchased a 350P with a push/pull and a Dynasty 350 is the same day, paid in full.  In January I purchased a monster welding table, paid in full.This doesn't include anything from the machining side of things which includes a mill, lathe, horizontal mill, surface grinder, and a bunch of other machines that are all fully tooled. There is also a well tooled Hossfeld kicking around the shop. Add it up, I have a boatload of the money invested in all of this. You can sit and preach about buying expensive equipment all you want but you know what? I absolutely love what I do and it makes money. I can guarantee that I will break your Harbor Freight welder the first day I use it. This statement is coming from experience, I've owned a few of their machines when I was starting. Their max rated capabilities won't even come close to the day to day operations. How much 1/16" core wire will they run before they give up the ghost? You going to set up to carbon arc with a 1/4"carbon on a 200 amp welder? I've got and old P & H, 500 amp welder that eats them like candy. Yes, it weighs a ton and I can't pick it up and put it on my shelf, or hardwire it to the panel, as you have mentioned 40K times before, but there aren't many lunch box sized welders that will do it. How about last month when I got a run for 300 machined aluminum parts? I'm sure my customer would have appreciated me aluminum stick welding them together as you love to mention. Why don't I do it full time? I have a good full time job that I like during the day and I'll make 150K/yr working 60 hours a week with very little headache. I have nice equipment and I invest in nice equipment and when the customer says "I have this crazy job and it has to be right and I need it in a few days" I just pick the job up and deliver it next Tuesday. There isn't any messing around trying to rig up a solution to a problem that could be solved by having the right equipment. I work in the shop when there is good work and work in the shop when I'm just messing around doing my own stuff. I've maxed out my Roth every year since I graduated high school and have some money stashed elsewhere also. Even if I go broke tomorrow it wouldn't really matter because for the past 20 years I've been working with people that regret their entire life. Every one of them is the same and they all want to give me advice on this or that but it's difficult to take their advice because when they aren't busy giving me life lessons they just complain about how, in essence, they did absolutely nothing meaningful, to them personally, their entire life. They are so busy regretting their entire life that they will waste what good years they have left wallowing in their own self pity. I would much rather make a somewhat well thought out decision about what direction my life is headed than be so paralyzed by the fear of making and actual decision that I end up regretting never making a decision at all. So far I don't regret much.....
Reply:Burns: very well said! Thanks for the life lessons about people regretting there lives and wallowing in self pity.Millermatic 211Miller Syncrowave 350lx with cooler and tigrunner Thermal Dynamics cutmaster 811955 National Cylinder Gas O/A setup with original patina
Reply:I should've started saving when I started working at 15, i didn't, now im 24 and slowly been saving, i have a decent amount of saving's but not enough, id like to have 100/150k right now. im not focusing on retirement, im looking to buy a condo in Daytona beach this year, ill rent it out when im not using it and go down for a month when i want.If the conversation isn’t money, then I’ll see you later.
Reply:Originally Posted by MOE1I should've started saving when I started working at 15, i didn't, now im 24 and slowly been saving, i have a decent amount of saving's but not enough, id like to have 100/150k right now. im not focusing on retirement, im looking to buy a condo in Daytona beach this year, ill rent it out when im not using it and go down for a month when i want.
Reply:Got a $350k building /property ( bank appraised value) ......Loaded w/equipment , when the bottom dropped out of the economy in "09" I had to lay everybody off (10 people ) and go pipeline welding with only my welding rig that I had set up basically for pipe jobs...... Did that for 5 years until business basically picked back up...( misc. metals fab. shop and erector, pipe welding , equipment repair, etc......)  If I wouldn't of owned ALL my machines , tooling, etc. outright I would have been bankrupt..... In 5 years my building will be paid off, I will be 60 and that building will be my retirement income , with my wife's pension and S.S. we should be sitting pretty good for our "Golden Years" ( god willing)...... I won't be eligible for S.S. for another 7 years from now....( 2 years after my building will be payed off so I might have to coast/ work for another couple years......)   I dunno.........
Reply:Originally Posted by SmoothOperatorGot a $350k building /property ( bank appraised value) ......Loaded w/equipment , when the bottom dropped out of the economy in "09" I had to lay everybody off (10 people ) and go pipeline welding with only my welding rig that I had set up basically for pipe jobs...... Did that for 5 years until business basically picked back up...( misc. metals fab. shop and erector, pipe welding , equipment repair, etc......)  If I wouldn't of owned ALL my machines , tooling, etc. outright I would have been bankrupt..... In 5 years my building will be paid off, I will be 60 and that building will be my retirement income , with my wife's pension and S.S. we should be sitting pretty good for our "Golden Years" ( god willing)...... I won't be eligible for S.S. for another 7 years from now....( 2 years after my building will be payed off so I might have to coast/ work for another couple years......)   I dunno.........
Reply:Originally Posted by ExpatWelder A little over a year ago I went through a real nasty divorce that cost me 500 thousand cash, it hurt but I WILL recover financially in the long run.
Reply:Originally Posted by yesindeedI was lucky that way. When i started working at my career job at 21 years old, all the grouchy old timers would tell me "hey kid - dont ever get married. You will eventually be living in your parents basement or the locker room at work, paying for a house you cant even enter anymore, watching some younger guy play with your dog and kids while HE lives with your ex-wife in a house you are paying for. Then years later, when you retire, she gets half your pension."  I remember seeing guys never stop working because even though they were long-divorced, she was waiting for them to retire to get a portion of the pension. I never made that mistake, never got married, and my son is 20 years now. He lived with me since he was twelve years old. I took care of him, but never had to give her anything. The laws are so stacked against a man in court, marriage seems like a sucker bet. I always say "would you sit down to a card game where you know the dealer has extra cards up his sleeve, everyone else can see your cards, the fees you pay to the house to play are more than you make in a few months, and you are guaranteed to walk away from the table with less than you started with? Of course you wouldnt get into that game." Thats what happens in divorce court. Its all rigged for the man to lose. Where else can you have a rock solid signed contract (a pre-nup), that was signed with the consent of each side's lawyers, with everyone in clear agreement of the terms, and it still gets set aside and invalidated by a judge because "she probably didnt understand that you had more to gain than she did, so it wasnt fair. " Is it Open Season on Prenuptial AgreementsI, in turn, have done my share of passing on the wisdom of the ages to younger guys that started at my job over the years. Over time, two different young guys came to me and thanked me for the advice a few years earlier. They said my gloom and doom warnings made them put the brakes on their marriage plans and they were glad because each one eventually got caught messing with a younger girl from the neighborhood of the job, and they believed that had they been married, it wouldnt have went as well for them on the homefront. One other kid from Ireland lamented that fact that he didnt listen when he got some local chick pregnant and the wife found out and put him out. He said he remembered dismissing my warnings because he thought he was not the kind of guy who would mess around, but then he saw all that fat puerto rican aѕѕ around there.  And they werent used to blond haired, green eyed dudes, so they were all over him like flies on a turd.The brothers who warned me thirty five years ago are mostly dead now, but their advice kept me out of trouble all these years.
Reply:Originally Posted by yesindeedI was lucky that way. When i started working at my career job at 21 years old, all the grouchy old timers would tell me "hey kid - dont ever get married. You will eventually be living in your parents basement or the locker room at work, paying for a house you cant even enter anymore, watching some younger guy play with your dog and kids while HE lives with your ex-wife in a house you are paying for. Then years later, when you retire, she gets half your pension."  I remember seeing guys never stop working because even though they were long-divorced, she was waiting for them to retire to get a portion of the pension. I never made that mistake, never got married, and my son is 20 years now. He lived with me since he was twelve years old. I took care of him, but never had to give her anything. The laws are so stacked against a man in court, marriage seems like a sucker bet. I always say "would you sit down to a card game where you know the dealer has extra cards up his sleeve, everyone else can see your cards, the fees you pay to the house to play are more than you make in a few months, and you are guaranteed to walk away from the table with less than you started with? Of course you wouldnt get into that game." Thats what happens in divorce court. Its all rigged for the man to lose. Where else can you have a rock solid signed contract (a pre-nup), that was signed with the consent of each side's lawyers, with everyone in clear agreement of the terms, and it still gets set aside and invalidated by a judge because "she probably didnt understand that you had more to gain than she did, so it wasnt fair. " Is it Open Season on Prenuptial AgreementsI, in turn, have done my share of passing on the wisdom of the ages to younger guys that started at my job over the years. Over time, two different young guys came to me and thanked me for the advice a few years earlier. They said my gloom and doom warnings made them put the brakes on their marriage plans and they were glad because each one eventually got caught messing with a younger girl from the neighborhood of the job, and they believed that had they been married, it wouldnt have went as well for them on the homefront. One other kid from Ireland lamented that fact that he didnt listen when he got some local chick pregnant and the wife found out and put him out. He said he remembered dismissing my warnings because he thought he was not the kind of guy who would mess around, but then he saw all that fat puerto rican aѕѕ around there.  And they werent used to blond haired, green eyed dudes, so they were all over him like flies on a turd.The brothers who warned me thirty five years ago are mostly dead now, but their advice kept me out of trouble all these years.
Reply:Originally Posted by SmoothOperatorGot a $350k building /property ( bank appraised value) ......Loaded w/equipment , when the bottom dropped out of the economy in "09" I had to lay everybody off (10 people ) and go pipeline welding with only my welding rig that I had set up basically for pipe jobs...... Did that for 5 years until business basically picked back up...( misc. metals fab. shop and erector, pipe welding , equipment repair, etc......)  If I wouldn't of owned ALL my machines , tooling, etc. outright I would have been bankrupt..... In 5 years my building will be paid off, I will be 60 and that building will be my retirement income , with my wife's pension and S.S. we should be sitting pretty good for our "Golden Years" ( god willing)...... I won't be eligible for S.S. for another 7 years from now....( 2 years after my building will be payed off so I might have to coast/ work for another couple years......)   I dunno.........
Reply:Originally Posted by JustmeHmm.  Sounds like maybe your protégés problems weren't marriage, it was their own integrity.
Reply:Originally Posted by WNY_TomB..my father had his own business and had difficulty working for others..he ended up with no savings and 100% on social security..i am a firm believer do not put everything you have in one basket. 401K, ROTH IRA, your own business, buying stock in company you work for. very bad ideal to have more than 1/3 in any one of anything especially your own business..at 54 i have $1300/month retirement annuity from previous 32 year job i will get the rest of my lifeover $200,000 in 401K and IRA  (3 different ones as i trust no one account)own my small house, paid off mortgage early over decade agoowe nothing. i buy cars in cash (bank check)always have over $10,000 in the banki have a job now made over $55,000 average per year last 3 years (pay going up yearly last year over $60,000).i am just saying having you own business is risky. sure some retire rich but many retire poor having their own business. most who work for others if they put into 401K retirement account usually retire better off than people who have everything in their own business..
Reply:I am 29 and have a 401k and have had it for 7 years my company does not match my money they put $4 an hour in there. So every week they basically put $160 in there. I put I think 3% in there as my portion. I have about $65,000 in there and I am 100% vested. Sent from my C811 4G using TapatalkVantage 300 kubota ,miller 304 xmt ,lincoln ln 25 pro , ranger 305 G, plenty of other tools of the trade to make the sparks fly.