need to stop the bastard from rusting!

admin

hello alll,I am currently designing a welding table to build for a school project and i am after a method that will stop the top plates from rusting? obviously paint isnt really an option, I am after something that is clearish and wont effect the flatness of the table greatly, something like hardening or a nitride finish or some clear paint, im not too sure whats out ther. And also if you could give me a ball park figure of what it would cost,The table consists of 8 150mmx1150mm plates. Two design options are listed below, comment on which ones you would prefer if you like aswell.both tables will have locking cators that are adjustable in height, a seat that will mount from the side that doesnt touch the ground so you can sit at the table, hence why there is the recessed area in the lower shelf, and have two tool chests either side of this recessed area.Design Option 1.Design Option 2.Cheers, Little Sparky
Reply:If you use it often enough it won't have a chance to rust. "You can't out puke a buzzard"
Reply:give us those dimensions in englishMillermatic 211Everlast 200DX Thermal Arc 181iKlutch ST80i lunchbox stick welderLincoln Weld-Pak 100Century Stick welderPowermax 30 plasma cutterHenrob 2000 torchLogan 200 lathe (60 years old)Clausing 6339 Lathe (for sale)
Reply:Originally Posted by yesindeedgive us those dimensions in english
Reply:There is an acid that will stop it from rusting. If you lookup Rust Kutter you find something that might help you. Or look into case hardening. That will only slow rusting down greatly. Bare metal will always rust just how fast is another story.Klutch 220si mig , stick, and dc tigHobart 140 AHP ALPHA 200X 2016Lotos LTP5000DSmith O/P
Reply:little_sparky Originally Posted by little_sparkyI am currently designing [?] a welding table . . .
Reply:Nickel plate it.  It's conductive so you can weld through it.  It's thin so it's flat.  It will resist rusting for a while in open air.The acids are phosphoric acid.  They convert iron oxide to iron phosphate but do nothing to protect clean steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROlittle_sparkyForget: any coating,the wheels,the seat, and both 'ridicules' bottom platforms.Leave the top uncoated - and build a 'classic' H-Frame [functional] trestle bottom tie.Bottom platforms only collect junk, and reduce usable space . . .Opus.
Reply:Originally Posted by little_sparkyLook i do agree that it is all overkill and a tad pointless, the casters are a must have though in my opinion because i will need to move it around my shop, however it is for a school project, and the class is "Product Design", so in order to pass the class i have to design something that is unseen on the market to bypass all copyright laws and then i have to satisfy a design brief. I probably wont get around to the seat and i might substitute the drawers for an adjustable length plate or something, but the main concern is the rusting of the metal plates.
Reply:I've used tip dip, get a rag, pick up a bit and rub it over the plates. You'll have to re-apply it occasionally but it'll keep spatter from sticking as well...M
Reply:https://www.theruststore.com/Rust-Preventers-C4.aspx
Reply:Woodworkers use paste wax to prevent rust on cast iron table surfaces."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:I leave my table out side in the rain And snow all year. I wipe it down with oil every now and then ,ten years no rust.
Reply:http://www.epi.com/c/rust-preventatives/waxesI use this on my metal pieces and it works great. I would imagine it work work well on a welding table. I use this on a regular basis on my welding table and tooling. It says anti splatter but i find it does not work that well on lower amp MIG work like I do. It might work well for 250+ amp structural stuff. In the upper right corner of the label you can see it says fixture tool cleaner. it works great for that purpose. I was introduced to this product because a gallon of it came with my welding table. It is great stuff and affordable from Amazon.http://www.amazon.com/Weld-Aid-Weld-.../dp/B008V0QDQ6Don't use any kind of paint or topical coating. Just keep the metal clean, conditioned and use it often. The best rust preventative is to weld often. Also, get you a stone like this. it has a course and fine side for surfacing and cleaning the table of splatter before going back over the table with the cleaner or wax as listed above. I use a stone like this all the time on my table. http://www.stronghandtools.com/siegm...es/img/oil.jpgLast edited by Jimmy_pop; 03-05-2016 at 12:10 PM.
Reply:Check out http://boeshield.com/why-boeshield/
Reply:Originally Posted by little_sparkywhats english? inches?
Reply:You could give it a coat or two of boiled linseed oil. This is a cheap way to prevent rust on steel.Rich
Reply:If it's not raining inside the shop I'd say just use it, it'll stay good. If you have condensation overnight kerosene will work well enough for a day or two.On the options I'd take number 1 but narrow quickly to the center because you never know when you need the foot forward until it busts you just at the shin bone... not cool!It is a nice lookin' design,MattLast edited by Matt_Maguire; 03-05-2016 at 09:57 PM.
Reply:little_sparkyThis is a 'Blast from the Past' - but my SOP has't changed.Keep in mind - the post is an answer to an allied condition - andthe post has been contextually amended per sparky's question.__________________________________________________  ____________OPUS FERRO                                             WeldingWeb Craftsman                                                                                                          6-25-14LuMaxI take a different approach than most with table hygiene.It's a Shop Law - no fluids of any type on the fab tables.The tables are not fixtures, they are surfaces to carry fixtures.All of the welding is elevated some distance from the table in said fixture.This provides 'enough air' that spatter typically balls before contacting the table. C25 - and proper gun angle/distance are also part of the mix.[In a Miller D-60]I run .024 and .030 Hard-Wire in one gun, and .035 and .045 Dual-Shield in the other - without spatter spray.I have had a 12oz. can of Jokisch LB-100W for over 15 years, it's 1/3 full, and still has pressure.[This paragraph is a response to Lumax's original question]It is only used for initial coating of a new contactor-tip, or nozzle.First: carefully run stringers until the gun is hot, immerse in Mig Dip, hang the gun so it drains and cools [until the Dip congeals]. I repeat the: dip, hang, weld cycle several times.You can season a tip/nozzle just like a cast-iron kettle, and they will last for years.[Back to table conditioning]  I never spray a table - because it collects grit, and inevitably ends up polluting - your work, tools, gloves, and clothing.Because the table is dry, all I use to clean and protect the surface is a feather duster, and a 14" Mill-Bastard file.A couple of times a year I'll scrub them with 409 and a 3M pad, then tack-rag.  Opus__________________________________________________  ___________The best surface is the original surface - don't screw it up . . .Opusps - Due to testicle difficulties >http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...le#post4341711.Last edited by OPUS FERRO; 03-06-2016 at 01:05 AM.Reason: Many of the WW site improvement have made editing a night-mare . . .
Reply:Originally Posted by yesindeedYes, I think most brothers in the US are at a bit of a loss when things are quoted in millimeters or centimeters. When I read it, I have to start doing mental math with something having to do with 2.54.  I just can't remember what to do with that number. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply:Build it out of titaniumre: metric v US inch/foot etc:   most machine shop prints/plans  measurements in the US are in decimal inches. For example, not 1 5/16" but rather 1.312 (+_ .002) .  When something is expressed in mm, I have to look up what is meant as I have no clue.  Larger distances in meters, can be roughly thought of as yards...just for getting your head around it not for accuracy.
Reply:Myself, I'd never paint it with anything, even clear...But if you only want the clear coating to prevent rusting before you show it as a project, then go for it....If however the table is to be actually used as a welding table, then you want very clean brite bare metal....If you desire to first display the table, then eventually use it, then coat it with a clear paint you can then remove with lacquer thinner and a rag....Keep things simple and cheap.IF you will be making those plates and they are made from hot rolled steel, then they will have very hard coating of mill scale that you will want to remove...if so, this is your opportunity to also coat them with great layer of magnetite in same simple process you will use to remove the mill scale....magnetite is a highly desire coating we boiler guys encourage to form inside our boilers....it is highly corrosion resistant.If you make the slats from hot rolled steel, then use the sodium washing soda(NOT baking soda), water and the electrolysis method to remove the mill scale on each slat...You can easily construct a single small container to hold one slat at a time, and a 12V auto battery charger to perform the process...The process is call pickling and is often done at steel factories but the steel then costs lots more by the time it is sold retail.If fact, you might want to include the process in the presentation for your build if you are required to present all steps needed to design and construct the project.There is tons of info on the web about pickling steel yourself.Be warned that if you instead use acid to remove mill sale, it will begin to rust as soon as you take it from acid bath.A painted table is highly desirable for those that use it strictly as a fixturing type table where all parts are held in clamps and vises up off the table surface and you have other ways to get really good work ground...so whether to paint it or not should first start with it's intended use...If being used as a simple welding table where work will be clamped down directly to surface and it will experience bangs and scrapes and hammering and tac weld, then forget any pained coatings.
Reply:I've gotten to where I use some clear, brush on lacquer for quick, easy coating on parts I don't want to rust, but that I definitely do not want to paint. I only use it on secondary surfaces, not the actual work surface. Plus, it can be easily recoated and won't flake off into chunks of marred paint, that always end up making a huge mess all over whatever they come off of, or come into contact with. I don't put anything on my welding table top, just hit it with a wire wheel once in awhile. If you invest in a good dehumidifier for your shop it will eliminate a lot of moisture problems. I do use Boeshield on my machinery vises, bigger layout tools and chucks. It's expensive but works good for stuff you're not gonna handle a lot that could collect condensation when being stored for lengthy periods of time. Again, a dehumidifier or regulated temperature will go a long ways to helping combat moisture problems. If you only heat or cool at acute intervals (like only when you're out in your shop) surface rust will just be factor you'll have to deal with. As the steel condensates, it rusts. Controlling the temperature or humidity prevents this to a large degree. Dehumidifiers are relatively cheap. I imagine you have flea markets and yard sales in OZ. Take a look around and see if you can find one for your work area. I have prolly four working ones at the ready and run at least one if not two constantly during spring and summer because of the excessive humidity we tend to get here in Michigan. It makes a night and day difference. Believe me, I struggled with heavy surface rust on my equipment for years before realizing how helpful a dehumidifier in your shop is.  I wouldn't overthink any of this, pick the design that works best for your needs, while meeting the qualifications of the project criteria. Both designs above look good, it's really up to you.Good luck with it.IMHO of courseLast edited by 7A749; 03-06-2016 at 10:10 AM.Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:All it needs is use, relentless, soul crushing use. It won't have time to rust.Eventual master of the obvious, practitioner of "stream of consciousness fabrication".  P.S. I edit almost every post because because I'm posting from my phone and my fingers sometimes move faster than my brain.
Reply:Originally Posted by SedanmanAll it needs is use, relentless, soul crushing use. It won't have time to rust.Just make it out of 304 stainless and you won't have to worry about rustwww.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:Occasional wire wheel , or, use SEM 40783 Copperweld Weld-Thru Primer.  http://www.amazon.com/SEM-40783-Copp.../dp/B003TQGT4S   But an occasional wire wheel is probably best.Agape GuyEverlast Power I-MIG 200 (dual voltage)Everlast PowerArc 200 stickHarbor Freight Titanium 125 Easy FluxHypertherm Powermax 30Way too many power tools
Reply:Originally Posted by wornoutoldwelderMyself, I'd never paint it with anything, even clear...But if you only want the clear coating to prevent rusting before you show it as a project, then go for it....If however the table is to be actually used as a welding table, then you want very clean brite bare metal....If you desire to first display the table, then eventually use it, then coat it with a clear paint you can then remove with lacquer thinner and a rag....Keep things simple and cheap.IF you will be making those plates and they are made from hot rolled steel, then they will have very hard coating of mill scale that you will want to remove...if so, this is your opportunity to also coat them with great layer of magnetite in same simple process you will use to remove the mill scale....magnetite is a highly desire coating we boiler guys encourage to form inside our boilers....it is highly corrosion resistant.If you make the slats from hot rolled steel, then use the sodium washing soda(NOT baking soda), water and the electrolysis method to remove the mill scale on each slat...You can easily construct a single small container to hold one slat at a time, and a 12V auto battery charger to perform the process...The process is call pickling and is often done at steel factories but the steel then costs lots more by the time it is sold retail.If fact, you might want to include the process in the presentation for your build if you are required to present all steps needed to design and construct the project.There is tons of info on the web about pickling steel yourself.Be warned that if you instead use acid to remove mill sale, it will begin to rust as soon as you take it from acid bath.A painted table is highly desirable for those that use it strictly as a fixturing type table where all parts are held in clamps and vises up off the table surface and you have other ways to get really good work ground...so whether to paint it or not should first start with it's intended use...If being used as a simple welding table where work will be clamped down directly to surface and it will experience bangs and scrapes and hammering and tac weld, then forget any pained coatings.
Reply:Originally Posted by TheBFAI don't know what the problem is. I'm from the US and lived in Sydney for two years and working in mm was the best thing ever. Every single measurement can be done to mm accuracy, and you can add lengths in your head without having to mess with additional fractions and common denominators and carrying over after 12 inches. Then you get the yahoos who give dimensions in decimals and have to convert it to fractions or approximate fractions so you can use your tape measure. The metric system does away with all that all with a base 10 system, like how the numbers we all count with works.
Reply:First off 150mm is 5.9 inches and 1150mm is 45.27 inchesOP doesn't specify which part of Aussy land? If he is in the North, its tropical humidity and no matter what WILL rust ALL the time! If he is in the South, then the weather will be more moderate and rust shouldn't be as big of an issue. Sounds counter intuitive but remember, they are "Down-Under" from us!I would suggest an oxide type of coating(phosphoric type) as this "may" lessen the Rusting issue!
Reply:About every month, I'll roll my table out on carport and polish her clean with flap disc in my 7" grinder, then wash it with mild stuff like even windex and a few paper towels, then spritz a little oily sorta stuff on it (even pam cooking spray) and rewipe it, then forget it...It's really no big deal but needed every now and then to grind down tacks and splatter....over about two years of that, the table became very shiny clean and easy to rebriten like you see above.When I dug that plate out of the scrap pile at the recycle yard it was very rusty and heavily painted....Wear and hard use and routine grinding and flapping made it really decent looking.
Reply:See how bad it was the day I made it?....That is rust and lots and lots of paint...yuck, huh?
Reply:Originally Posted by drujininFirst off 150mm is 5.9 inches and 1150mm is 45.27 inchesOP doesn't specify which part of Aussy land? If he is in the North, its tropical humidity and no matter what WILL rust ALL the time! If he is in the South, then the weather will be more moderate and rust shouldn't be as big of an issue. Sounds counter intuitive but remember, they are "Down-Under" from us!I would suggest an oxide type of coating(phosphoric type) as this "may" lessen the Rusting issue!
Reply:Still playing with a few ideas, the budget keeps going up haha. Will have adjustable height feet on castors aswell.
Reply:Consider building the table tops with 1/2" or 3/4" Aluminum tops and just bolt the table onto steel legs that have properly blasted, primed with a real industrial grade 2 part part epoxy primer and then topcoated with a 2 part linear polyurathane like Imron, Awlgrip or equal.   Imron is bullet proof when its put on top of the correct epoxy primer.   good luck.  Below in the photo is my 1/2" thick Aluminum table top.  It's apiece of 5052 h32 plate I had around and its just sits fine up on top of a wooden roll around.  Works works for me.  topcoat legs with linear 2 part poly urethane like Imron, Awlgrip or industrial coating = Attached ImagesLast edited by rexmarine12; 03-08-2016 at 08:20 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by wornoutoldwelder...  IF you will be making those plates and they are made from hot rolled steel, then they will have very hard coating of mill scale that you will want to remove...if so, this is your opportunity to also coat them with great layer of magnetite in same simple process you will use to remove the mill scale....magnetite is a highly desire coating we boiler guys encourage to form inside our boilers....it is highly corrosion resistant.If you make the slats from hot rolled steel, then use the sodium washing soda(NOT baking soda), water and the electrolysis method to remove the mill scale on each slat...You can easily construct a single small container to hold one slat at a time, and a 12V auto battery charger to perform the process...The process is call pickling and is often done at steel factories but the steel then costs lots more by the time it is sold retail. ...