Real life use of a spool gun setup???

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OK, here’s what I’m interested in. I’d like to do minor repair of aluminum items like landscape trailers and parts on them. I’d like to make custom headache racks for trucks, and other items of 1/8” aluminum. I have an AHP 200a ac/dc tig and it works fine for small parts, but I’d like something faster and a bit more forgiving in fit up, for bigger stuff.I’m looking at an everlast powermig 200 with 200amps, a top voltage of 24volts, and with a 180a spool gun.NOW……Plain and simple, what should I expect???1.Will this do the job???2.Do I need a bigger unit??3.Will the 180a gun work???4.Can I do small repair on ¼” stuff if I preheat???I can really use some "professional" real life answers from you guy's that do this for a living. I just do this stuff for fun money (and I love it) in between my landscape business all of which is while I'm now retired.Much thanks in advance.PeteEverlast  i210 with 200a spool gunEverlast i140eLOTOS LTP5000D Non-Touch Pilot Arc "Things are never so bad that they can't get worse...."
Reply:Forget the neverlast stuff. Hobart 210MVP with matching spoolgun...I have both and they operate flawlessly....Spoolgun was less than two hundred bucks but would have been less expensive if I had bought them as a package deal.I also have the larger Hobart Ironman 250 amp machine and it's spoolgun. Once again flawless.The 210MVP will certainly do 1/4", the larger machine will go well below thickness they advertise for alum.Both machines are made by Miller, as also the guns.Jody at weldingtipsandtricks.com has videos using the Hobarts on alum.Good luck with whatever you choose.
Reply:Originally Posted by wornoutoldwelderForget the neverlast stuff. Hobart 210MVP with matching spoolgun...I have both and they operate flawlessly....Spoolgun was less than two hundred bucks but would have been less expensive if I had bought them as a package deal.
Reply:just get your welder of choice, 220v (the tweco 181i at cyberweld is a smokin deal right now). but forget the spool gun unless you have to run 4130 wire. go for .035 5356, its stiffer and likely the better wire for your needs as well.there is a bit of a learning curve, and everyone says it cant be done, but thats bs. some of the extra features that tweco put in their machines, especially the 252, like burn back make it easier to run. i suggest running the roller tension as low as possible and your tip size one larger than the wire size, and do your best to keep the whip straight. you can get teflon liners and such but i haven't ever tried one.and yes it can be done, the shorter the whip the easier, but when i first started out and had to work with what i had i pushed around 20lbs of aluminum through a 15' whip. 10' is perfect.
Reply:Originally Posted by tracymobilecncjust get your welder of choice, 220v (the tweco 181i at cyberweld is a smokin deal right now). but forget the spool gun unless you have to run 4130 wire. go for .035 5356, its stiffer and likely the better wire for your needs as well.
Reply:THIS MAY BE ANOTHER TOPIC??? If I will using this once a week at best and for 10 to 20 second at a time, can I get away with a mig gun (amperage????) and 5356 .035 wire (which I have already done with success)?????Many thanks again,PeteEverlast  i210 with 200a spool gunEverlast i140eLOTOS LTP5000D Non-Touch Pilot Arc "Things are never so bad that they can't get worse...."
Reply:I'm stating the Hobart 210MVP will weld alum extremely well on 1/4" set on only tap 6 of the 7 available at 100 wire speed.....And the 250 amp IronMan will do much thicker and almost as thin as the 210MVP.Am I stating there are no other choices of welders?  No, just contributing my solid experience and pleasure and trouble free life with both.....And also they were very decently priced for the quality.I am glad you came here to ask our experiences. I hope others contribute that have experience with the machine you are considering.
Reply:Originally Posted by wornoutoldwelderI'm stating the Hobart 210MVP will weld alum extremely well on 1/4" set on only tap 6 of the 7 available at 100 wire speed
Reply:I have experience with spool guns. That said I have an everlast MTS250S , I do not have a spool gun with it.  While I like it as a mig welder I do not think very well of its stick welding capabilities.  I have read of many with the everlast stuff not being able to run 5356 wire but will run 4043 wire.  I would not buy a spool setup that did not run 5356 wire .  4043 is ok but for max strength 5356 is the way to go.  I own a 30A miller and a spoolmatic 3 spool gun and I do not think very well of the newer cheaper spool guns. I am sure they work but most seem to have problems with gas coverage or not enough wire speed that kind of stuff.  I guess if I wanted a cheaper spool gun setup I would not buy without running it with the wire I will use most of the time. I have all the parts to adapt my 30A to the MTS but have not made it up yet.
Reply:Originally Posted by fpsAnd in no way am I arguing. I'm just trying to confirm you are spraying and not short circuit welding, since I didn't think SCW is a real option.Thanks,Pete
Reply:Originally Posted by wornoutoldwelderIf you are welding alum with any modern mid sized CV GMAW welder, you are performing spray transfer.Here is good info for you and me and all:http://www.thefabricator.com/article...-aluminum-gmaw
Reply:If you find the machine you get doesn't quite have the snort to weld something at the limits of its range, rent a bottle of He/Ar mix.  And pre-heat aluminum that is at all thick.
Reply:I use 4943 wire in my 30a. Much better tensile strength than 4043 and still great wetting characteristics.-DoogieMiller 350PMiller Trailblazer 325 EFI w/ Excel PowerLincoln LN25 suitcase welderXMT 304/22a feederMiller Syncrowave 350LXMiller EconotigHobart Handler 140(2) Uni-Hydro 42-14Hypertherm 65 plasmaWEBB Gap bed lathe
Reply:I used a shopmaster 300 in CV of course, and a 30A to weld an aluminum boat cabin out of mostly 1/8 wall 6061. I found that the 4043 was way easier to run than the 5356 for whatever reason.Once dialed in, the setup was very forgiving. It is WAY faster than tig, and way easier out of position, which I was on 90% of the welds. One handed operation was a must on that job.I was able to weld up to .5" plate and down .060 with the .035 wire. The .060 was a bit tricky for sure. I think I did some thinner as well, .04something I think.The welds are not as pretty as the tig equivelent, but I felt they were quite strong. The only difficult part of welding with this gear is when you have a long weld, the base material heats up. this leads to either being cold at the start and perfect at the end, or perfect at the start and way to hot at the end. Preheat moderates this effect.I welded up some window frames that required 4 foot weld seams. this effect was quite pronounced at that length. The structure welds like you are talking about with the truck tubular structures etc. would not be an issue.Chay
Reply:So now I'm getting a bit confused. I assume I should use spray transfer for aluminum. Yes?????Everlast  i210 with 200a spool gunEverlast i140eLOTOS LTP5000D Non-Touch Pilot Arc "Things are never so bad that they can't get worse...."
Reply:Yes, no, maybe...Spray works well since alum is such a great heat sink. Short circuit and globular welds can often just sit on the top, especially if you are pushing an under powered machine. However out of position welds like vertical and overhead with spray alum are just about impossible because of how fluid the puddle is. That's why dedicated alum mig machined typically have a pulsed spray function. This allows you to have that really hot bead, but manage to still have puddle control when welding out of position. The puddle freezes every time the machine pulses so you have control of what you are doing.A lot is going to depend on the thickness of alum you are trying to weld. You can get away with short circuit/ globular welds on "thin" ( 14 ga / 1/8") stuff because you are still pumping in more heat than the base material can wick away ( assuming machine settings are correct). As you start moving into thicker materials, the base metal starts to chill the puddle before you really get good fusion unless you start to get up into spray. Many small machines don't really get up into spray, but globular transfer instead. It's about halfway between short circuit and spray..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW is right. Alum mig is always going to be a spray transfer. It just does not work when not in spray.What you want to think about because of the high electrical conductivity of alum is the start. You might get lucky that the wire will intiate an arc, but the metal will be cold, and the wire will just stab a spit upon contact. The remedy for this is to purchase a mig with variable run-in control that will feed the wire slow and when the arc is sensed and established ramp up to welding feed rate. The ThermalArc252i fabricator has the variable run-in feature, as well as some Linlcone and Miller migs. Look for that if you wish.The other feature is variable/programmable "hot-start" capability. This starts and arc with a high current on cold alum, then ramps down after a second or two because the puddle and metal gets hot. This is beneficial because the base metal can overheat a few inches down. My MKCobramig has the run-in control but does not have the hot-start feature. I can do a good 12 inches before I have to weld faster. My Millermatic350P does have run-in and hot start feature for a strong smooth start and consistent welding on alum for as long as I have the trigger pulled. Just some things to ponder.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I have a Lincoln 180 amp mig. I believe I measured 24.5 volts maxed out. After numerous tries I believe I finally got this to spray on .125 aluminum. Machine was maxed out used .030 4043 wire. Pic next post.
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Reply:Originally Posted by fpsSo you're saying the 210mvp will spray with no problem????
Reply:If you want to buy a unit that will absolutely work with the spool gun, you can get a Miller 252. It comes with a regular torch for mig, and plug your optional spool gun into the other socket and the machine will auto-select whichever device you are pulling the trigger on. The 252 WILL get into spray mode with no problems, and with practice, you can make your aluminum welds look pretty good.  You will have a system that you won't soon outgrow.Miller Syncrowave 350Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgunMiller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgunLincoln PowerArc4000Lincoln 175 Mig  Lincoln 135 Mig Everlast 250EX TigCentury ac/dc 230 amp stickVictor O/AHypertherm 1000 plasma
Reply:You can run the Hobart 210MVP without spoolgun if you set machine near the same level of work and keep the 10' torch lead flat as possible, Even with 4043 it will not birds nest that way.20 seconds a week makes it hard to justify any spool gun....A hot mig with a 10 foot mig gun should make your welds if you keep torch lead straight as possible. I have a neighbor buddy that builds his daughter's go cart racing frames with a 180 Lincoln mig with out spool gun....he simply rolls welder cart into best position for each weld...He leaves the Lincoln set up for alum, and his 251 Miller for steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by wornoutoldwelder20 seconds a week makes it hard to justify any spool gun....A hot mig with a 10 foot mig gun should make your welds if you keep torch lead straight as possible. I have a neighbor buddy that builds his daughter's go cart racing frames with a 180 Lincoln mig with out spool gun....he simply rolls welder cart into best position for each weld...He leaves the Lincoln set up for alum, and his 251 Miller for steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by fpsAnd if I wasn't thinking with my "Torch", instead of my head, I would have realized that you are totally correct. Funny, I can think straight when it comes to my Mowers, but not my welding. Yes, yes, yes, for "walk in" aluminum repairs, I can't justify $50 buck here or there making it worth a new machine and spool gun. I believe after reading all the great info you guy's have offered, I can make the right decision and fix it with the Tig, or let the customer find another welder.Thanks big time guys,PetePS...... now if you need help with mowers, trimmers, or blowers I can help
Reply:Originally Posted by wornoutoldwelderI certainly do...I got a briggs 18.5 that needs new governor, and another that starter drags...And grass is leaping toward the sky.....you in central Louisianna?never had any problems with the miller setup ... 3/8" plate, 1/4" thick tube, and 1/2" barAWS CWI xxxx21711968 SA200  Originally Posted by WelderMike  I hate being bipolar, It's awesome.