Need advice for growing fabrication shop, what machine to step up to?

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Hello all, I own and operate a 4x4 specialty shop and were beginning to meet limitations of what we can do with the old miller 250 we have. while its a good running machine, i feel like its time to upgrade, and have been more and more in need of tig welding capabilities. As of right now we do a lot of rust repair in sheet metal, welding on frames and exhausts, as well as minor modifications to lift kit components, we are not a hardcore fab shop that will be fabricating bumpers, axle tubes or tube chassis buggy's....yet. But following the demand for that market were growing into that sector. I have seen the adverts for the new esab rebel, does anyone have any experience with this? is it built to stand up to being used professionally in a commercial application? or should i be focusing on getting a separate tig welder to do the job? The appeal of a 3 in one unit that can do everything i need sounds great on paper, but is it true? any input would be appreciated. thank youLast edited by gary502; 02-10-2016 at 05:45 PM.
Reply:It depends on how many employees you have that will be in the fab area.  For a shop I have a separate mig machine and a tig/stick machine.  I would not want a 3 in one .  First if you think you will need to tig aluminum you can't get a 3 in one.  I drag my mig machine all over my shop, I would need to drag a lot more around if I had a 3 in 1.  With a 25ft tig torch I can reach about anywhere I need without moving the machine.  For the type of work you do the machines are light duty. 200 amp machines in both verieties would probably do just fine. If you were going to go into production of some sort I would go with 250amp machines just to get the better duty cycle . The other consideration is room. If you are cramped that might dictate a combo machine .
Reply:Im a small business, its myself and 2 other guys operating out of a 2500 sqft facility. Were growing, and ill get to that big shop status, but for right now i just need to make the best decisions, on the best equipment I can afford, without going crazy in the spending department for machines I dont necessarily need at this stage in my company.
Reply:Get a dedicated tig machine and keep your mig machine. If your business is growing you will surely pay off the machine in little time. Get a machine with a good reputation that will hold up to your growing company. I recommend you go with Miller, Lincoln, esab, kemmpi or another company that is tried and true.Millermatic 211Miller Syncrowave 350lx with cooler and tigrunner Thermal Dynamics cutmaster 811955 National Cylinder Gas O/A setup with original patina
Reply:I have had nothing but success with my miller thus far, and i even have a little 110 lincoln floating around we use for quick stuff which for its size, works great on exhausts and such. Any recommendations on a good entry level setup for tig?
Reply:Originally Posted by gary502I have had nothing but success with my miller thus far, and i even have a little 110 lincoln floating around we use for quick stuff which for its size, works great on exhausts and such. Any recommendations on a good entry level setup for tig?
Reply:I agree with Sharon, try to look for a Lincoln 175 squarewave or a precision tig also.
Reply:A buddy of mine is selling a sweet miller syncrowave 351 with the giant water cooler on top of it and every accessory and attachment you could buy for the thing. Was seriously considering buying it because I could get it for well below but it's worth, only problem is that it's set up for 480v. And my shop doesn't have that kind of power flowing into it. Is there any way to change that?
Reply:hey Gary, you should be able to switch the jumper links around on the back of the welder to 230 volt input power. Just be aware a syncrowave takes around 100 amps input on 230 volt but gives you up to 400 amp output
Reply:He does not need 100 amps to use the welder. He will only need 100 amps to use the max output of the welder. I use my 350lx on a 50amp breaker with no problem.Millermatic 211Miller Syncrowave 350lx with cooler and tigrunner Thermal Dynamics cutmaster 811955 National Cylinder Gas O/A setup with original patina
Reply:Originally Posted by gary502A buddy of mine is selling a sweet miller syncrowave 351 with the giant water cooler on top of it and every accessory and attachment you could buy for the thing. Was seriously considering buying it because I could get it for well below but it's worth, only problem is that it's set up for 480v. And my shop doesn't have that kind of power flowing into it. Is there any way to change that?
Reply:Originally Posted by That Guy ThereHe does not need 100 amps to use the welder. He will only need 100 amps to use the max output of the welder. I use my 350lx on a 50amp breaker with no problem.
Reply:Just FYI, any TIG machine for A/C on aluminum is nearly useless for a commercial fab shop under 250 amps. Yes you can preheat and use hotter gas, but it is frustrating! I had a Miller 180sd. When I got it I was just a hobby guy and it was a toy, a fun toy, but just a toy. After I started my own shop it got to be very limiting very fast. Being able to TIG 1/4" and 1/2" aluminum plate without huge amounts of effort makes fab shop life so much easier. As far as MIG on steel a Miller 250 should be fine, if you are bumping up against the top of that machine, then get a 350P.
Reply:get dedicated welders that are heavy, have wheels and/or lifting rings. Stay with RED or BLUE depending on the proximity to a good, authorized service/support. Small inverter TIG welders will get knocked over by the help or grow legs and I dont believe they have the shelf life of a transformer TIG. As you get bigger with employees, you'll want multiple dedicated MIG and TIG machines, not sharing multi process machines. I started out with separate 200~ amp MIG TIG machines and will keep them forever. They built the business I have today. I'll add machines but they will be higher power obviously. much success to your company going forward!
Reply:Amazing information on here. I'll stop by his shop and check out the specifics of this machine. Correct me if I'm wrong, but does $2500 sound like a good deal on this machine with the cooler and all the add ons? And is it worth the investment on that specific unit?
Reply:Get the MIG 250's brother SW 250. Excellent machine that will do it all. Don't fall for the inverter can do anything more BS. The are a bitch when they break.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:Originally Posted by That Guy ThereGet a dedicated tig machine and keep your mig machine. If your business is growing you will surely pay off the machine in little time. Get a machine with a good reputation that will hold up to your growing company. I recommend you go with Miller, Lincoln, esab, kemmpi or another company that is tried and true.
Reply:Alright well with another employee in the shop it's now time to purchase another 220v Mig welder. Most of the welding is going to be on frames and suspension components. What would You guys recomend as my best option for a good new or used machine, one that is all around a good investment, and will perform the best. Miller 252 maybe? Thanks in advance.Last edited by gary502; 03-29-2016 at 09:49 PM.
Reply:The 252 is perfect for what you're doing, a little overkill most of the time but the power's there when you need it. You can also set up a spoolgun on it for quick aluminum stuff, if you have a separate regulator and bottle on the cart you can leave the spoolgun connected at all times and just pull it's trigger or the one on the MIG whip to switch between processes. It's ridiculously easy. My coworker and I have shared our 252 before, working on separate aluminum and steel projects. Just hit the trigger and the machine flips back over to your settings. We've pushed that thing pretty hard running .052 dual shield as well with zero issues.
Reply:Did you end up with the 351?
Reply:If I was going to look at a mig in the MM250-252 class, I'd be tempted to buy a nice used XMT 304 with feeder. Used they often sell in the $1500-1800 range with feeder. That would pretty much let you mig anything you want, as well as give you the option to do stick and DC tig. True it's not quite as "portable" as a stand alone mig like the mm252 is, but a good cart or a suitcase type feeder will solve that issue..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I ended up opting out of the 351, it's just entirely too much welder for me and myNeeds. I just need to get into a really good 220v Mig to keep these frame repairs rolling through the shop without guys having to fight over a welder.