XMT 304 CC/CV TIG setup - gas valve?

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I'm trying to get my XMT ready to start some SS TIG work, but I have a few questions still, before I go start buying stuff willy-nilly.  I took a class a couple years back at the technical college that ran for a semester and was all stick, until the very end.  We had some spare time, so the instructor helped me try out TIG for that whole class on SS, plain steel and alum (that part went awful).  That is my total experience.  I was getting the beginnings of the feel for it, but need a lot more practice now.  So trying to get set up without breaking the bank too much...Things I know (or think I do...)1. I plan to be using a foot pedal (Probably an SSC or USAWeld one).  2. I'm planning an air cooled torch - I should be running under 150A for what I can think of needing it for, and certainly not high duty cycle. Not sure which one yet. First question:I also would really like to have a gas solenoid for this, as I know I will constantly forget to turn a manual gas valve on the torch on and off.  The XMT does not have any gas valves, of course.  I was thinking of getting a used HF251D box for it, which would give me HF for starts and a gas valve, but that seems overkill.  --> Does someone offer a gas valve kit as a stand alone?  I don't see anything obvious from Miller.-->Second part of this, is I would be willing to build such a thing, as it isn't that hard to do, but I am unsure if I can tap into the contractor circuit to the pedal, or what else I might need to do on interfacing it with the XMT.  Any ideas?The other big question I have is TIG mode.  The selector has 3 TIG settings - scratch start, Lift-arc, and foot pedal.  With a foot pedal and no HF box, how would that work? Which setting and method would be needed?  The owners manual is pretty thin on explanations for things like this.Thanks for any help!-Dave-DaveXMT304 with: 22A Feeder, or HF251 Hi Freq DC TIG air cooled
Reply:No one I know of makes a stand alone gas valve.  You won't be doing aluminum, so scratch or lift arc are fine.  If you look at the controls, there's an outline around the rectangle that's orange and white.  One line is for the processes that are remote controlled and one is for the ones that are panel controlled.  Lift arc cuts the output to the tungsten until you ground it out.  You lift from there and the arc starts.  Pedal should work, or u have option of either from panel dial. Scratch start is a hot electrode with the amp control on the panel only.Pedal is non-lift arc with pedal control.  If you're interested, I have a Hobart HF unit. It's has a gas solenoid and only needs a 2 wire trigger with continuity to turn on and off.  You can easily wire to a pedal.  You can have it at my cost.  May cost you less than trying to do on your own.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:You might find this thread of Steve's useful for information.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...h-Gas-Solenoid!I picked up my Process Selector switch years ago so I could have a gas solenoid when I managed to pick up an XMT and it's hiding on a shelf some where in the garage awaiting me having the cash at the same time I see one in my price range..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:An air cooled torch with its own valve is all you need. A foot peddle is not needed. I tig with my XMT 304 all the time and don't own a peddle. Also always did scratch start until I got the XMT. You will only forget to turn the gas on a few times. Dan D.Manipulator Of Metal
Reply:Agree that remembering to turn the gas off isn't all that scary.  Get a handle valve torch and practice on mild.  When you go onto stainless you may decide you want a pedal for post flow protection but you can make that decision later.  I have a home-use  XMT  and have never bothered getting a foot pedal.
Reply:Thanks for the pointers guys...I'm not too surprised there isn't one already.. I couldn't find anything myself.Drf- I'll send you a PM for more details.  Might be interested.DSW - thanks for the other thread.  I searched here and on MillerWelds forum, but did not find anything.  That is an interesting option.Steve - There is no option for a solenoid in the XMT series that I can find.  Dan/Oldsparks - you have no idea how many times I will forget to turn the valve on (or off).  Ask me how often I drive my tractor away with the parking brake engaged...  Besides, that is just the way I like to work - I don't want to have to think about more things than the important tasks, so if I can automate this a bit with a basic solenoid, that is a good thing (for me).  If I have to, I will get a torch with a valve, but it is not my preferred route.I still plan to get a foot pedal, if only so I can adjust things a bit more on the fly.  Maybe i won't use it a ton in the long run, but they aren't too expensive, so it makes sense to me, at least at this point...I know several EE's at work, so I would have no problem getting a basic delay circuit designed and made to allow post flow.  Heck, I could probably just do that much myself with a simple timer relay.So what about a torch?  For this range in an air cooled torch, what makes the most sense?  Series 9 or 17 or ??  And who makes good stuff for not crazy prices?  Considering: hobby use, but I don't want junk.-DaveXMT304 with: 22A Feeder, or HF251 Hi Freq DC TIG air cooled
Reply:Originally Posted by davecSteve - There is no option for a solenoid in the XMT series that I can find.
Reply:If there is an option for the 304's it is not obvious from either the Miller website or the manual.  So I'm guessing not.  And a 350 is out of my league.  Heck a 304 is out of my league, but I got a great deal and I love it.Steve - thanks for the link, but I have to say - You were holding out on me!    That is just about what I need.  Or at least what several folks in the thread said they wanted for lift tig is what I need.  Where do you get a solenoid like that for not a fortune?-DaveXMT304 with: 22A Feeder, or HF251 Hi Freq DC TIG air cooled
Reply:Thanks for the source.  STC valve looks like they have lots of decent options.  I still need to sort out how to wire it successfully so everything works, if I go this route.Still wondering about torches.  It looks like 9 vs 17 for the air cooled range.  Any thoughts on which size/type to go with?  Plusses/minuses?Thanks,Dave-DaveXMT304 with: 22A Feeder, or HF251 Hi Freq DC TIG air cooled
Reply:Not all torches are rated equally. You'll find the CK brand torches have a higher amp and duty cycle rating than say Weldcraft torches. A 17 type Weldcraft is rated at 150 amps 60% duty cycle only in DC. In AC it's rated a lot lower. Contract that to a CK 17 size torch ( CK 150) that is rated at 150 amps 100% duty cycle in both AC and DC. A 9 size CK sized torch ( CK 130) is rated at 130 amps 100% duty cycle in AC and DC. Much higher than a Weldcraft #9 and probably better than even a Weldcraft #17 sized torch.The 9 size torch is much smaller than a 17 sized torch and uses different parts as well..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:You can get a 24vac valve, a 14 pin plug and receptacle. Connect to 14 pin receptacle on welder front. That way you can use a foot  or hand control or trigger switch. XMT is not modified.
Reply:Thanks, DSW.  So is CK the "hot new thing" in TIG torches (excuse the pun)?  The ratings sure make it sound better, but I know too little at this point to make a call.  Seems like the 17 is the overall standard, no? That might make the most sense...ccawgc - that was basically my plan - work off the 14 pin plug/socket, or tap into it on the pedal connector.  I wasn't planning to modify the XMT unit at all.Thanks!-DaveXMT304 with: 22A Feeder, or HF251 Hi Freq DC TIG air cooled
Reply:The CK brand torches have been around for quite awhile. It's not really "new". It's just better built than say the Weldcraft torches are.17 size torches tend to be the average go to air cooled torch. The 26 size torch has a higher amp and duty cycle rating than the 17 does, but is clumsier. All depends what you plan to use the torch for. To me, once you exceed the amp rating on a 17 size torch, you are looking at going water cooled..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:And that is exactly the type of info i was looking for.  Thanks, DSW.-DaveXMT304 with: 22A Feeder, or HF251 Hi Freq DC TIG air cooled
Reply:a 17 size ck wont break the bank if you dont get all fancy with it. from there you can add generic gas lens, collets, caps, hose, etc to complete it.i believe in the spirit of making things how you want, but, using a gas valve is really easy to do. remembering to put your foot on the pedal is no different.and trust me, after a couple trips to sharpen tungesten and grind out porosity from a no-gas start, you wont forget. and having the electronics only supply electricity to your weld really simplifies the setup and makes it versatile. plus, you can really reach out away from your machine and bottle. i use many machines with integrated solenoids but i never run my gas through them. turns the machine into a ball and chain always at your heelbosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:I think you will get used to the manual gas valve very quickly.  That's all I use in the field and I do X-ray welds on a daily basis.  I really think it is a waste to try to hook up a gas solonoid.  You will only forget to turn it on a couple times and then you will be golden. I have a 304 machine for my personal use with a 150 amp and a 200 amp manual gas valve torch they work great for me.  So give it a shot you may just like it!!!!
Reply:Yeah, I'm beginning to agree that it is worth trying the manual valve.  It is cheaper to start with and if I find I am too absent-minded about manual on and off, I can still use it later on with some integrated solenoid setupand just leave the manual valve on all the time.  Still plan to get a pedal no matter what.Thanks for all the advice, guys.BTW who carries a good selection of CK online that is trustworthy?  The CK website is not terribly helpful other than showing the various products (no description of why you would want one over another or much of anything)...Last edited by davec; 01-20-2015 at 11:21 PM.-DaveXMT304 with: 22A Feeder, or HF251 Hi Freq DC TIG air cooled
Reply:i hear cyberweld is good, with good prices. i also like that they have a q & a section under each product, and they seem to answer all the questions.i have never bought from them though.bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:I'm still a big fan of Weldcraft torches.  It's all that I have ever used and I have never been let down.
Reply:The old Crafter torches were awesome. I had one.I do CK now. Prolly never go back. They make nice stuff.Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:Originally Posted by davecYeah, I'm beginning to agree that it is worth trying the manual valve.  It is cheaper to start with and if I find I am too absent-minded about manual on and off, I can still use it later on with some integrated solenoid setupand just leave the manual valve on all the time.  Still plan to get a pedal no matter what.Thanks for all the advice, guys.BTW who carries a good selection of CK online that is trustworthy?  The CK website is not terribly helpful other than showing the various products (no description of why you would want one over another or much of anything)...
Reply:Cool.  I was going to go CK based on what I have seen and read here and elsewhere.  I found them on Weldfabulous but don't know much about that site.  I don't see CK listed on the htpweld.com website??  In fact the website seems a bit thin overall...-DaveXMT304 with: 22A Feeder, or HF251 Hi Freq DC TIG air cooled