6013 sheet metal...no other options

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hello i am in kenya and i have very little to work with i need some helplet me explain what i have to work with Chinese made 6013 (1/8 or 3/32)a cheap dc stick welder i am trying to weld 3/64 wall square tube ..the only variable i can change is the thickness of steel i am burning through the steel like crazyif i turn the welder down it will not weld (the slag jams itself into the root and the metal goes to the sides) if i turn it up it does the same or burns holes....this is on a fillet weld it runs ok flat but i don't need it to run flati have stick welding experience (two trade schools in the states as well as working as a welder fabricator)i am not a novice when it comes to stick welding but i have no idea how to make this work with what i havewhat options do i have (keep in mind i am in Kenya you can suggest all the rods you want but all i can get that will run on this machine is 6013 (6010 is available but not affordable and i have some 3/32 7018  i found in country but the welder is not powerful enough to run it) any help would be great thanksLast edited by 6gsmaw; 01-26-2015 at 09:57 AM.
Reply:My first welding experience was with 16ga sq tubing and 16ga sheet.I was to build portable 8'x12' barn panels, using a square tubing frame, skinned with the sheet.I had never welded before, so I had the advantage of not knowing this could not be done with a Lincoln 225 ac machine, and 5/32 rodsLet me tell you, I did a lot of grinding, and a lot of hole filling, at first.I had the machine set where the rods would barely run at all, and tried to just sort of 'paint' it on, going in and out of the puddle(not really a puddle), mostly out.Also, small tacks closely spaced helps keep the edges from disappearing.Of course, if you could go from the 3/64(what is that, about 18ga?) to 14 ga, it would make your job about a zillion times easier.Also, when possible, welding downhill will help you be able to move faster, with a small increase in heat. Maybe not even straight downhill, but with the work propped at 45 degrees.In my case, I was just getting the hang of it after the final, and 13th panel.Good luck!ps. I hope you are building barn panels, and not bombs!Last edited by geezerbill; 01-26-2015 at 10:48 AM.Hobart Beta-Mig 2511972 Miller AEAD-200LEMiller 250 TwinNorthern Ind. Hybrid 200Longevity Stick 140Longevity Migweld 200SThermal Arc Pak 3XR
Reply:run the smallest 6013 rod you have on DC electrode negative. I seem to remember reading somewhere that you want to keep the stick perpendicular to the plate and run as fast as you can downhill. but I can't find the original reference so this is from memory.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961run the smallest 6013 rod you have on DC electrode negative. I seem to remember reading somewhere that you want to keep the stick perpendicular to the plate and run as fast as you can downhill. but I can't find the original reference so this is from memory.
Reply:Use 3/32 or or 1/16 rod and run it downhill.   It can be done it's just tricky at first
Reply:Originally Posted by tackitHow do we know the info you are looking for isn't for making bombs,  that's a very dangerous part of the world. Can we ask why you are there and what you do there?
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveYour memory is plenty accurate I would only add, "as fast as you can while still maintaining a puddle."
Reply:Do a bunch of small tacks spaced out and clean the slag off and fill in between them. This is how auto body welding is done except they use a MIG welder and don't have to clean any slag.
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961run the smallest 6013 rod you have on DC electrode negative. I seem to remember reading somewhere that you want to keep the stick perpendicular to the plate and run as fast as you can downhill. but I can't find the original reference so this is from memory.
Reply:Welder Davei had tried that but as it will not weld properly (jamming slag in the root and welding only the sides) that sadly is not even an optionLast edited by 6gsmaw; 01-27-2015 at 05:40 AM.
Reply:I dont know how I missed this thread...6gsmaw on your first post on your first post you said you are using chinese made 6013 electrodes. Here in my country we get a lot of Made-in-China rods. They always weld like crap. Any brand from any manufacturer is always crap. And the filler metal used is substandard according to local test data published. Now the local welding industry here is issuing bulettins against using China made electrodes. Golden Bridge brand electrodes is one among other brands that I can remember... I know because I used to sell this as some customers will only get the cheapest optopn availabe and I as a seller recieved a copy of the bulletin. Maybe your rods are suspect?
Reply:Originally Posted by silvertinaI dont know how I missed this thread...6gsmaw on your first post on your first post you said you are using chinese made 6013 electrodes. Here in my country we get a lot of Made-in-China rods. They always weld like crap. Any brand from any manufacturer is always crap. And the filler metal used is substandard according to local test data published. Now the local welding industry here is issuing bulettins against using China made electrodes. Golden Bridge brand electrodes is one among other brands that I can remember... I know because I used to sell this as some customers will only get the cheapest optopn availabe and I as a seller recieved a copy of the bulletin. Maybe your rods are suspect?
Reply:What other brand 6013 you have over there? ON this pile of rock i'm on I also cant get any lincoln or miller rods. The best I've used so far are Kobelco ones...
Reply:Originally Posted by silvertinaWhat other brand 6013 you have over there? ON this pile of rock i'm on I also cant get any lincoln or miller rods. The best I've used so far are Kobelco ones...
Reply:Originally Posted by 6gsmawit is working (and by working i mean not burning holes) it is still welding the sides and filling the root and middle with slag ...any ideas? i am welding the thin tube to a thicker angle (probably some of the issue as the weld is gathered on the thicker angle)but it is still an issue even if the steel is the same thickness ... it seems like the rod is not putting down steel fast enough ..
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveIn my experience, slag down the middle with 6013 is almost always caused by running the rod too cold for it's size.This makes it impossible to stay ahead of the slag since their isn't enough arc force pushing it back.If running hot enough means you can only make tacks, and then weld tack to tack like welder Dave says - then that'll have to be what you do.On thick-to-thin, the amps is set for the thicker piece and the weld is held mostly to that side.If the amps were set for the thinner piece, there will not be enough heat and it's back to slag trapped in the middle.Using super crappy rods would further complicate the issue.
Reply:Originally Posted by 6gsmawthe thing is i have the welder maxed out (it says it will go to 140 but i know that is not the case because it would not run 3/32 7018 at all not even start an arc) so i can not turn the welder up ... would hooking it up to a generator give me more power...not a long term solution but maybe just for right now
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveAre you not getting the required input voltage for the machine currently?What input is it designed for, and what is it being fed?
Reply:wow i feel like an idiot ....the telwin nordika 1800 that i am using is a flipping ac welder.....no flipping wonder it didn't do crap with 7018  ....how did i miss that.........i'm done just done
Reply:if you're going back to 6013 on thin material try placing tacks close together first. make the small tacks touching each other then after doing that on the whole joint let it cool and then try welding it.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Originally Posted by docwelderif you're going back to 6013 on thin material try placing tacks close together first. make the small tacks touching each other then after doing that on the whole joint let it cool and then try welding it.
Reply:http://www.telwin-slovenia.si/en/pro...n_nordika_1800First time I ever saw a transformer welder that small... I learn something new everyday. On the specs says rutile rods only and low OCV. Looks like you're stuck with 6013...
Reply:May I interject with ONE word?Whipping.You can whip 6013 in a situation like you have.  Don't whip with a short arc, do it long arc.  Deposit metal for a short second, long arc it to remove the heat, then deposit some more metal.  It's more like lifting the arc than true whipping.  Try it on some scrap till you get good at it, then hit the good metal.You're actually long arcing back into previous deposits, which will take the heat of the long arc without burning through, and because it's long arcing...you won't deposit any noticeable metal back over your previous deposits.I know, I know  6013 is a drag rod.  But the world won't come to a fiery end if you whip in this situation.  It's a matter of getting it done."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by tackitHow do we know the info you are looking for isn't for making bombs,  that's a very dangerous part of the world. Can we ask why you are there and what you do there?
Reply:Originally Posted by silvertinahttp://www.telwin-slovenia.si/en/pro...n_nordika_1800First time I ever saw a transformer welder that small... I learn something new everyday. On the specs says rutile rods only and low OCV. Looks like you're stuck with 6013...I think that would be a hateful little machine to weld with...Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammMay I interject with ONE word?Whipping.You can whip 6013 in a situation like you have.  Don't whip with a short arc, do it long arc.  Deposit metal for a short second, long arc it to remove the heat, then deposit some more metal.  It's more like lifting the arc than true whipping.  Try it on some scrap till you get good at it, then hit the good metal.You're actually long arcing back into previous deposits, which will take the heat of the long arc without burning through, and because it's long arcing...you won't deposit any noticeable metal back over your previous deposits.I know, I know  6013 is a drag rod.  But the world won't come to a fiery end if you whip in this situation.  It's a matter of getting it done.
Reply:So this might sound a bit crazy... But... you can try making your own small diameter 6010 rods...6010 is a cellulose based flux, cellulose is basically paper. Get you hands on some mig wire and twist up a small diameter core, maybe wrap it around it self or twist 2 or 3 lengths together... keep it shorter than 12 inches. Small stick rods heat up Quick from resistance, "micro" sticks will do it worse...Take a bunch of newspaper, soak it in water so its easy to wrap, add a pinch of fine sand or crushed up glass and wrap tight with the newspaper. let dry over night then have at it. The sand/glass is to add a bit of silica, the black glassy flux that remains on 6010 beads. The finer the powder the easier it well melt in the arc. I have never tried it my self...just read about the idea some where.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI think that would be a hateful little machine to weld with...
Reply:Slag wormholes down the middle of 6013 rods are a regular ocurrence, no matter which brand we are talking about. I usually run ESSAB rods here in Spain and ESSAB 6013 does exactly what you describe. I usually run them on the hot side and before I start moving the puddle arround.. I make damn sure I have a puddle well established. If you strick an arc and start moving along the joint inmediately, you will get this slag worm in the middle. On the other hand, if you hang on for a while and then start moving slowly, the problem dissapears (usually). I can tell whether I made a good or bad weld as soon as I break the arc. The slag cools down much faster and shows up as a black spot while the weld beads on the sides are still glowing orange. And yes, it sucks.Mikel
Reply:Originally Posted by Mikel_24Slag wormholes down the middle of 6013 rods are a regular ocurrence, no matter which brand we are talking about. I usually run ESSAB rods here in Spain and ESSAB 6013 does exactly what you describe. I usually run them on the hot side and before I start moving the puddle arround.. I make damn sure I have a puddle well established. If you strick an arc and start moving along the joint inmediately, you will get this slag worm in the middle. On the other hand, if you hang on for a while and then start moving slowly, the problem dissapears (usually). I can tell whether I made a good or bad weld as soon as I break the arc. The slag cools down much faster and shows up as a black spot while the weld beads on the sides are still glowing orange. And yes, it sucks.Mikel